![]() |
|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
![]() |
#1 | ||
Computer Torque Control
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballarat East
Posts: 546
|
I don't know the full story regarding the future of the Falcon (and don't claim to). Because of this, I have an important question.
I hear a lot of chatter stating that local production of the I6 is going to end at 2015/2016. In order to find a replacement engine, Ford US are going to provide the Falcon with the 3.5 V6. I'll provide an alternative suggestion. Why not just leave the Falcon with the EcoBoost 2.0 as a base engine (and provide the 5.0 V8 N/A as a performance option)? It has a very flat torque curve, and is quite refined (two things that, from what I have seen, the 3.5 V6 can't match). In my opinion, a high revving go-nowhere motor doesn't suit the Falcon; it needs to have plenty of torque down low (which, from what I have heard, the I4T has). Fair enough, the EcoBoost 4 cyl is not quite the I6, but with the reduced weight at the front of the car, the Falcon may actually handle better (not that it isn't superior to the competition). Besides, in these times, fuel economy is a great concern, and the EcoBoost is almost certain to deliver. The inclusion of technology such as direct injection may also help rid people of the misconception that the Falcon is a technological dinosaur. Yes, I haven't driven a Taurus, but unless the V6 is some sort of technological marvel which is able to alleviate the problems inherent in the design of a V6 (and from what I have heard, it isn't), I just can't get excited about the Falcon having a V6. Another option: If Ford US are not willing to do this, why not can it, and do what Ford does in most markets, and offer the Mondeo as the largest car in the Ford stable. Let the old girl die with some dignity; I would much rather have no Falcon at all than one which approximates the Commodore with a better auto. We've already seen one formerly proud brand name shattered in the Focus. I will sell all my Ford merch if I ever see a V6 in the Falcon. It will be a great shame. What does everyone think? Would you be happy to see just the I4T and Coyote V8 in the Falcon?
__________________
“Cookie Monster” 2018 BMW 118i M Sport 6MT Estoril Blue “Jill” 1997 Ford Falcon GLi Sapphire 5MT Regency “Sally” 1997 BMW 318i Executive 5MT Alpine White |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,287
|
Ford NA uses the 3.7 V6 in Mustang and F150, I wouldn't call it a high revving go nowhere engine.....
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |||
Computer Torque Control
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballarat East
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
![]() 4.0 I6: ![]()
__________________
“Cookie Monster” 2018 BMW 118i M Sport 6MT Estoril Blue “Jill” 1997 Ford Falcon GLi Sapphire 5MT Regency “Sally” 1997 BMW 318i Executive 5MT Alpine White |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,287
|
Quote:
while the Falcon's readings has been given corrections to approximate flywheel power outputs. I've recently driven the later US vehicles with v6 engines and can say that I found their performance comparable to our Falcon I-6, the idea that Falcon will become a souless car with a V6 is just emotional clap trap. Bring on a smaller and lighter Falcon with higher HP V6s, EB I-4, V8 and V6 diesel All possible if Falcon/Territory share power trains with a future Mustang Last edited by jpd80; 31-08-2011 at 09:32 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
go & drive a commodore and if you reckon its not souless than there's clap trap going on in your head |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,287
|
Quote:
At least I have driven the Ford V6 engine you are dismissing, I think you are sucking someone else's opinion.... All the R & D is going into corporate engines, falcon's I-6 is here for another five years, after that is anyone's guess and what V6 is available then is also anyone's guess.. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |||
Computer Torque Control
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballarat East
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
I can't read the old language, so I didn't even realise. Anyway, the general shape of the torque curve (and the fact that it revs to 7000 rpm) should give you the gist of what I was trying to demonstrate. If the future Mustang shares a power train with the Falcon, does that mean we'll have the 'Mustang bred' Falcon again? ![]() Edit: Out of curiosity, what do you think the V6 does better than the I6? The figures tell me it'll just do everything worse, but since you've driven it and I haven't, I'd like to hear what you think of it
__________________
“Cookie Monster” 2018 BMW 118i M Sport 6MT Estoril Blue “Jill” 1997 Ford Falcon GLi Sapphire 5MT Regency “Sally” 1997 BMW 318i Executive 5MT Alpine White |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#8 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 455
|
Falcon has zero chance of survival without dropping the I6 and adopting the US V6.
The I6 is too long to accomodate more efficient body shapes with contemporary styling and has no market demand outside of AU. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |||
Computer Torque Control
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballarat East
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
__________________
“Cookie Monster” 2018 BMW 118i M Sport 6MT Estoril Blue “Jill” 1997 Ford Falcon GLi Sapphire 5MT Regency “Sally” 1997 BMW 318i Executive 5MT Alpine White |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 455
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
|
Quote:
the demise of the I6 will be a black day for our automotive industry. who in there right mind would spend decades developing an engine to the stage of the falcon I6 then when it is finally a great performance package say sorry we don't want it now
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 455
|
Quote:
For the purposes of what the Falcon is used for a V6 engine configuration would be more then capable of achieving what the current engine provides. Last edited by AMGC63; 31-08-2011 at 08:03 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Barellan Point
Posts: 571
|
I guess there has been money spend on ecolpi, and only giving it 4 - 5 years on production may be a little short. I suspect a last minute 'we'll keep the I6' if the falcon continues in 2015-16. It would make sense to drop it and move to global engine platforms. But then again, the FPV 335 motor seems to be an orphan as well, with shelby/ford coming up with their own supercharging set ups. All seems alittle backward.
Personally, I cant see Taurus coming here, I think mondeo will be the successor if falcon is killed off. With Ranger picking up the slack for utilities. In saying that, no doubt if Ford AUS get the funding from the government, the falcon will get a face lift with I6 continuing.\ My thoughts anyway.
__________________
Current Ride - 2013 Ford Ranger, XLT 4x4, ARB kitted brick Former Current ride - 09 XR6T in Octane, with a pinch of Sports pack Weekender - Ford Cortina 1969 coupe Project - 1968 Ford Cortina 4 door |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#14 | ||
XD Sundowner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: moranbah
Posts: 1,078
|
Love the i6 in my au but other than the Aussie job loss really not concerned if its a v6 it would have ample power for me either way , so if it keeps falcon alive bring it on .
I think most of the general public would have no idea what's under the bonnet anyway ! If possible for aus to build the v6 here then I would be happier again but I don't think it will happen unfortunately .but me like the trend at the moment get more versatility out of a suv so my next work hack will be a territory me thinks
__________________
something old something blue |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#15 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,063
|
I reckon they should ditch the I6 and make the EcoBoost I4 their main engine. Could be the next SR20
![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#16 | ||
Luxojet
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,883
|
I love the inline 6! BUT, if it was the V6 in the Nissan GT-R ehehe!
__________________
Rides: -Toyota Blade Master G. -Ford G6ET (that will be for sale) |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 641
|
a Falcon with a V6 would just become soul less much like the commodore,
they should keep the IL6 or retire our Aussie icon altogether. bring in whatever but dont call it a Falcon. Ive recently driven a V6 stang whilst over there ,..all rev & noise and not much poise to it at all ,..I took it straight back to hertz and said " hey this one's missing two cylinders " ,....they laughed and upgraded me to a real one ,...now where talking ! |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barossa Valley, South Australia
Posts: 3,381
|
Why not the EcoBoost V6?
__________________
Cheers, Sam. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
|
at the end of the day there are 2 words that would turn anyone off a V6 Commodore (Buick) V6, remember the VN?
![]()
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#20 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,922
|
Quote:
Yes they felt like you were holding on to a jackhammer when taking off but damn they were quick. Off the line, used to put 2-3 lengths on the ea i6 straight away. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#21 | |||
Last warning
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
|
Quote:
Talk about manuals and its a different story, but in auto guise, the EA was a slouch, worsened by the 3 speed in early ones. but not exactly helped with the 3.08's in the rear coupled with the BTR.
__________________
FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating EL GT - Supercharged NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo OFFROADER - Ford Explorer ![]() |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#22 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
|
Quote:
holden's are 3.08 rear in auto guise.. 3.45 in manuel!! arn't the EA/EB 3.23:1?? lower geared?
__________________
I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#23 | ||
Solution Was Boost 4?, 6 & 8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 23,624
|
It would need to be a twin turbo for me to buy it..
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
AUTOTECH TUNED EDELEBROCK CHARGED 2017 GT Mustang Plenty of RWKW |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
it`s hard to see much point going v6 other than space considerations should the falcon shrink a bit and warming up a little quicker with alloy block, the inline 6 is a good power unit and very easy to turn the wick up, and after 50 years of upgrades/development, it seems crazy to me to chuck all that away if and when the time comes,
but probably it all comes down to the bean counters at the end of the day. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#25 | ||
^^^^^^^^
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: online - duh
Posts: 9,634
|
There's a 2015/2016 Falcon
![]() Not so sure about that. Falcon = I6 + RWD (+ a few niche V8's), anything else isn't a Falcon ![]()
__________________
. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,653
|
All these people that keep going on & on & on & on & on about the I6, get over it!! As a buyer of BRAND NEW Falcons, I don't give a stuff if it is V6 or I6 as long as it makes all the right numbers... Bring on an Ecoboost V6 any day of the current I6.. That is high vs. low tech no matter what any I6 lover tries to tell me!! And engine that has over 120 patents (Ecoboost) vs. one that has none (I6) speaks volumes!!
And people going on about a soulless commodore.. truelly dont know where to start with you!! |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
|
Quote:
I would stack an F6 against any V6 ( and most V8) production car available for under $100K how does a patent ( or 120 ) make the engine superior?
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#28 | |||
Computer Torque Control
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballarat East
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
By the way, I consider the I6 engine layout to be 'high tech' ![]()
__________________
“Cookie Monster” 2018 BMW 118i M Sport 6MT Estoril Blue “Jill” 1997 Ford Falcon GLi Sapphire 5MT Regency “Sally” 1997 BMW 318i Executive 5MT Alpine White |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#29 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 455
|
Quote:
If that's the case hows the smaller capacity Nissan GTR engine stack up against the F6 engine on a dyno? Or Nissan 370Z compare around a circuit comparred to a F6..? Both clear wins to the V6 but both as pointless as each other.. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Bowenfels NSW
Posts: 687
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |