Bathurst getting booring?

timothyds · 10-10-2009, 04:28 PM

iv been watching some dvds of old Bathurst 1000 races and they used to start 58 cars! these were broken into 2 or 3 classes. I think we need to go back to this set up for Bathurst as its a bit dull with 25-30 starters all in one class. Does anyone else agree?? They should rut the V8 Supercars, the Fujitsu cars and the V8 Utes all together, this would add to the excitment like we had in the good old days and give more drivers a shot to show their stuff and also bring back the privateers who used to run but could not fund a front runner they could put tofether a ute. well let me know what you think, i hope we get some other manufacturers in soon also as 2 make series is too restrictive.

Fast Eddie · 10-10-2009, 04:32 PM

You may be interested in the Bathurst 12 Hour race then.

Zedjay · 10-10-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie

You may be interested in the Bathurst 12 Hour race then.

when is that on??

FALCONXTV8 · 10-10-2009, 04:32 PM

I think the main reason they went with just the one category was because the v8's were becoming much quicker than the four banger's down Conrod and it was becoming dangerous with such big differences in speed.I agree that it is not as exciting to watch these days but throw a bit of rain into the mix and.........

timothyds · 10-10-2009, 04:36 PM

yeah nothing quite like a corolla flat out at 95, still the drivers had to keep theit mind on the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONXTV8

I think the main reason they went with just the one category was because the v8's were becoming much quicker than the four banger's down Conrod and it was becoming dangerous with such big differences in speed.I agree that it is not as exciting to watch these days but throw a bit of rain into the mix and.........

Franco Cozzo · 10-10-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timothyds

iv been watching some dvds of old Bathurst 1000 races and they used to start 58 cars! these were broken into 2 or 3 classes. I think we need to go back to this set up for Bathurst as its a bit dull with 25-30 starters all in one class. Does anyone else agree?? They should rut the V8 Supercars, the Fujitsu cars and the V8 Utes all together, this would add to the excitment like we had in the good old days and give more drivers a shot to show their stuff and also bring back the privateers who used to run but could not fund a front runner they could put tofether a ute. well let me know what you think, i hope we get some other manufacturers in soon also as 2 make series is too restrictive.

Hell yeah, should have heaps of people in there and not just Ford/Holden either, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota etc

FALCONXTV8 · 10-10-2009, 04:39 PM

Ahhhhh the good old days lol

kircher · 10-10-2009, 05:23 PM

Why not axe v8 supercars entirely, and bring back ATCC. The cars are both basically exactly the same now. Who cares if they couldn't compete with Nissan. Perhaps that would push Holden and Ford to build better performance cars if they kept being beaten by other makes. I am only 23 and can't remember any of the good old days, however reading about races such as the ones won by the GTHOs prior to the super car scare are exciting to me. I'd love to see what would happen in a 1000km race with holden SS and ford xr8 or xr6 turbo direct from the showroom floor. I also agree there should be different classes to allow GT cars into the race, such as the ones used in the Tarmac rallies, and other privateers could enter. There is no more boring race series than a one make series, which is basically what it has become. I'd prefer it was a manufacturers championship rather than a drivers championship. At least then irrational brand loyalty to one brand or the other could be based on a technological advantage or whatever else rather than people going for Holden or Ford because "they're just better".

prydey · 10-10-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kircher

I'd love to see what would happen in a 1000km race with holden SS and ford xr8 or xr6 turbo direct from the showroom floor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluehoon

Put a GT & R8 on track for 1000kms with a set number of tyre changes only and let's see a real race. Race Sunday, drive Monday.

you guys might want to look up the production car category results and the results of the bathurst 12 and 24 hr production car races. gt's, xr8's, xr6t's, clubbie's, ss's etc.

the fords get their backsides handed to them. the turbo's generally get beaten by the 8's too.

kircher · 10-10-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

you guys might want to look up the production car category results and the results of the bathurst 12 and 24 hr production car races. gt's, xr8's, xr6t's, clubbie's, ss's etc.

the fords get their backsides handed to them. the turbo's generally get beaten by the 8's too.

I'm not surprised. It doesn't bother me either, it's racing. May the best team win.

timothyds · 10-10-2009, 08:11 PM

i can help you out with some dvds of complete Bathurst 1000 races dating back to 1979 if your interested in watching some of the golden years. if anyone has complete races before 1979 please let me know, thats as far back as i can find for complete races. tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by kircher

Why not axe v8 supercars entirely, and bring back ATCC. The cars are both basically exactly the same now. Who cares if they couldn't compete with Nissan. Perhaps that would push Holden and Ford to build better performance cars if they kept being beaten by other makes. I am only 23 and can't remember any of the good old days, however reading about races such as the ones won by the GTHOs prior to the super car scare are exciting to me. I'd love to see what would happen in a 1000km race with holden SS and ford xr8 or xr6 turbo direct from the showroom floor. I also agree there should be different classes to allow GT cars into the race, such as the ones used in the Tarmac rallies, and other privateers could enter. There is no more boring race series than a one make series, which is basically what it has become. I'd prefer it was a manufacturers championship rather than a drivers championship. At least then irrational brand loyalty to one brand or the other could be based on a technological advantage or whatever else rather than people going for Holden or Ford because "they're just better".

FALCONXTV8 · 10-10-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timothyds

i can help you out with some dvds of complete Bathurst 1000 races dating back to 1979 if your interested in watching some of the golden years. if anyone has complete races before 1979 please let me know, thats as far back as i can find for complete races. tim

I would love to get my hands on the 1981 race if you can get it

Nikked · 10-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Not this argument again *facepalm

FALCONXTV8 · 10-10-2009, 06:40 PM

12-14 feb 2010

Zedjay · 10-10-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONXTV8

12-14 feb 2010

is it on TV at all??

**Bluehoon** · 10-10-2009, 07:44 PM

Getting, long got boring.

Bathurst is now like the V8 nutters version of Mardi gras.

Put a GT & R8 on track for 1000kms with a set number of tyre changes only and let's see a real race.
Race Sunday, drive Monday.

enough of this tart up kit special rubbish where the only difference is some stickers...

Hubble80 · 11-10-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Getting, long got boring.

Bathurst is now like the V8 nutters version of Mardi gras.

Put a GT & R8 on track for 1000kms with a set number of tyre changes only and let's see a real race.
Race Sunday, drive Monday.

enough of this tart up kit special rubbish where the only difference is some stickers...

I agree totally hoon! It is beginning to be like Nascar. All tube frame cars with differing badges and body panels. The only Holden/Ford parts are probably the head and tail lights and the badges.

GoesLikeAZetec · 11-10-2009, 04:49 PM

Yep I agree too... Its not Holden V Ford anymore... You cant buy these cars or anything close to it.. I miss the Showroom Showdown they used to have...

It was awesome seeing HSV,FPV,WRX,EVO, BMW's etc all going together.

Thankfull · 12-10-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Getting, long got boring.

Bathurst is now like the V8 nutters version of Mardi gras.

Put a GT & R8 on track for 1000kms with a set number of tyre changes only and let's see a real race.
Race Sunday, drive Monday.

enough of this tart up kit special rubbish where the only difference is some stickers...

Totaly agree.....originaly Bathurst was about you raced what came off the Show room floor.

The only problem was the Wild Henrys back then where way tooo Wild for Holdens to keep pace with....as in not just track pace but costs in developing.

That has changed now and Holden are building good standard production V8s again.

Perhaps it is time to go back to the production race...you race what you sell to the public...

Cheers

FALCONXTV8 · 10-10-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedjay

is it on TV at all??

They generally show about 3hrs of highlights of it,not the whole thing.And yes if your a ford man they generally do get smacked by everything including the mitsu evo's and wrx's

:

JACK250 · 10-10-2009, 06:42 PM

I'd be more keen to watch if it was production cars or something at least close to a production car racing

R-Design · 10-10-2009, 09:03 PM

The worst thing they did was make it a round of the championship. It used to be ‘win at all costs’, now its ‘finish and rack up some decent points’. It’s completely taken the spark out of the race, that and safety cars (which I know are a necessity in this day and age), and the cars themselves being so reliable.

silicon · 10-10-2009, 09:13 PM

Three friends an myself were there a few years ago with the Hardtops revenge where all the coupes drove around the track an hour before the start. It was an amazing experience and to see all the positive expressions on peoples faces was amazing. It really was a great experience.

But that was about where it ended. The live telecast totally ignored the lap with 30+ coupes and had some other bloke crapping on in the telecast room; you could hear the clevelands smoking rubber in the background though. We watched the choreographed warm up and the race start and stayed for about an hour - then we left. We gave away our passes to a couple of blokes walking past and made their day by saving them 100+ dollars each.

I would love to be back at Bathurst 20 to 30 years plus ago when they were racing production cars that have the same engine etc as the everyday car. But now the cars bore me to tears. They are very very fast and reliable but I object to the fact they make them look like road driven cars when they only really share the outer panel shape. I call them 'V8 boring cars' and turn the channel as quick as possible now.

kircher · 10-10-2009, 10:14 PM

I don't follow motorsport religiously, but I do watch it a bit when it's on tv, and I'd watch it more it if it was a bit more exciting and I don't have pay tv. I was watching the Melbourne GP one year, and noticed they had a GT support act for that. I didn't even know such a racing category existed in Australia. My question is: Why does the GT class take a back seat to v8 supercars? These cars were Lambo Gallardos, Ferrari 430s, Corvettes, Vipers, 911s. That seems like a much more exciting race to watch than some cars with tube chassis construction, live rear axle and 302 small blocks with a look alike body.

Who has done the market research that says the populace want a 2 make series with identical rules for each make? Surely the average motorist doesn't believe their commodore or falcon shares any DNA with the V8 supercars?

austyphoon · 10-10-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kircher

I
Who has done the market research that says the populace want a 2 make series with identical rules for each make? Surely the average motorist doesn't believe their commodore or falcon shares any DNA with the V8 supercars?

Um........they DON'T need to do market research, all they look at is the TV audience and crowd figures. The V8 series is a very close racing series and faster too, people can relate to the two AUSSIE brands (and yes, most know that they aren't like our road cars) more then a bunch of exotics.

The GT championship is pretty much just a gentlemens racing series and will never attract a big following.

kircher · 10-10-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Um........they DON'T need to do market research, all they look at is the TV audience and crowd figures. The V8 series is a very close racing series and faster too, people can relate to the two AUSSIE brands (and yes, most know that they aren't like our road cars) more then a bunch of exotics.

The GT championship is pretty much just a gentlemens racing series and will never attract a big following.

Then we should allow Camrys and Aurions in as well. They're just as "Aussie"

DJL351 · 12-10-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kircher

I don't follow motorsport religiously, but I do watch it a bit when it's on tv,

You're making a lot of claims and suggestions for someone that doesn't really follow motorsport.

I don't follow Wood Cutting, but have seen it on TV a couple of times - and I'd feel very out of place making stupid suggestions as to how improve a sport i barely know or watch.

kircher · 12-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

You're making a lot of claims and suggestions for someone that doesn't really follow motorsport.

I don't follow Wood Cutting, but have seen it on TV a couple of times - and I'd feel very out of place making stupid suggestions as to how improve a sport i barely know or watch.

Keyword = religiously. I said I don't follow it religiously. Sometimes I think people don't read things properly. I'm more interested in the cars and the tech than the drivers and how close you can make the competition with restrictive rules. The drivers change teams frequently anyway. That's why I have no interest in Nascar, and it's one of the closest forms of competition in the world, yet the cars are all exactly the same, just like v8 supercars. I did not say anything about barely knowing anything about it or not watching it. I can almost bet I know a lot more about the sport than the average v8 supercar nut, and I'm no gambler. Most wouldn't know that they use basically identical engines, and suspension based on early 90s Australian cars. I know a lot of people who wouldn't care even if I told them. They'd still stand up in the stand and wave the Holden banner because Holdens are better because they win at Bathurst. I do indeed like motorsport, but I have said I can't afford to go to every single race around the world. I would love to go to the 24 hour Nurburgring, or Le Mans, even enter in the prior, but that is not possible. I am however seriously contemplating going to the 12 hour in February.

Quite a few years ago I actually assumed the V8s were close to production. I liked the sport enough to look up the technical regulations and I was shocked to read 302 Windsor and 302 Chevy. I read further and shock: live rear axle with watts linkage, I read further and found they had a control drivetrain and when I realised there was NOTHING shared between the race cars and the road cars I felt cheated and deceived. I then thought "what is the point of going for Ford or Holden when neither are actually Ford or Holden". Why not put a generic body on the cars and call them X. I had previously been a Ford fan. Now I just don't care. How many of the bogans with Holden flags at the race actually know the car they are supporting is not a Holden? How many fans know this? not many. As a side note; how many people that aren't motorsport fans would have read the F1 regulations just to find out what the maximum bore of the engine is? It's 98mm by the way. I had to look it up to find out. Anyway, V8 supercars is clearly just mass produced entertainment. There is no value given to true motorsport tenets of increasing performance and continued development. Where's the evolution?

So before saying things that have no foundation and using bad analogies, read and think.

No hard feelings

Kircher

austyphoon · 10-10-2009, 10:02 PM

My god not this AGAIN! It comes up every year.

Quote:

iv been watching some dvds of old Bathurst 1000 races and they used to start 58 cars!

You want 50+ cars competing? Where do you suppose these 50+ cars pit? We would need a pit 1km long to fit all the teams!

Couple of facts.

Fact 1. V8 Supercars is as POPULAR AS IT'S EVER BEEN, why change a winning formula for one that was flawed??

Fact 2. Group A was extremely expensive, the WINFEILD GT-R's had a budget as big as any team today and their cars cost a LOT more to build then a V8 supercar does today....and that was back in 1992 FFS!!

Fact 3. We ALREADY have production car racing and guess what????? It attracts very little attention, do you know why???? Because no one wants to watch moderately fast cars go around a race track, they want to see FAST cars going FAST.

Some of you need a reality check and stop living in the past, don't like the V8's? Well there are plenty of other categories to go and watch but you won't and that's why no other series is as successful OR as popular as V8's are today.

Deal with it.

kircher · 10-10-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Fact 1. V8 Supercars is as POPULAR AS IT'S EVER BEEN, why change a winning formula for one that was flawed??

Production car racing isn't flawed. It showcases current technology, and pushes for improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Fact 2. Group A was extremely expensive, the WINFEILD GT-R's had a budget as big as any team today and their cars cost a LOT more to build then a V8 supercar does today....and that was back in 1992 FFS!!

That's why you need more than 1 class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Fact 3. We ALREADY have production car racing and guess what????? It attracts very little attention, do you know why???? Because no one wants to watch moderately fast cars go around a race track, they want to see FAST cars going FAST.

Last time I checked the GT class wasn't slow, and no production car racing is ever done on television, except for a little on SBS, so it's a little hard to rate something like that. Besides, if you want fast, watch Formula 1 or one of the other Formulas. Formula 1 shits on V8 supercars for speed. Why not allow more than 302 cubic inches if all people want is fast anyway? It might make it a bit more interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Some of you need a reality check and stop living in the past, don't like the V8's? Well there are plenty of other categories to go and watch but you won't and that's why no other series is as successful OR as popular as V8's are today.

Deal with it.

Again, if I could watch good racing on TV I would. I don't have all that much money to go to races every few weeks. I believe others would agree. I can't live in the past either, As I am young and have only ever known the one make series. Your opinion is clearly not the only one.