Zero Tolerance?

[lotto]

Ok i am not a young buck-but i am disgusted how bad some peoples attitudes are towards police in this country!

The times have changed,For e.g. you would see the odd brawl,whether it be at the pub or wherever, a few punches thrown a few black eyes and a bit of blood!

But these days-a fight starts or an innoent bystander is walking along and gets attacked by twenty blocks,or a brawl happens and people jump in with knives etc

Women are more afraid than ever with all the sexual assualts going on,you only have to read some blogs etc and you can see how women are becoming more and more degraded everyday.

when i was growing up we would go out and leave doors open and unlocked etc

look we were werent angels and we did some mischief etc- but we knew where to stop and respected our elders-these days oldies get bashed all the time,

a young bloke cant even take his girlfriend out without getting hassled.

The sad thing to me is I feel we are following the usa,and becoming a mini america!

But one thing is different in the U.S.A and l;ot of other countries i have visited they respect the police more and sometimes are even scared of them! where here i have seen hoods mouthing off to police and they can just get away with it.

The police need more power,as with all the bloody druggies out there ,and gangs etc are going to ruin this place and it will turn into a shithole,where people cant even go out at night!!!

what do you think-bring in ZERO tolerance!!

[nugget378]

Yeah lets string everyone up with piano wire,and hang em from telegraph poles as examples..

Or...
Just stop reading the tabloid rags,and watching aca,how often has this stuff happened to you?
Never has me,or anyone I know,mmmmm must happen every minute hey.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Yeah lets string everyone up with piano wire,and hang em from telegraph poles as examples..

Or...
Just stop reading the tabloid rags,and watching aca,how often has this stuff happened to you?
Never has me,or anyone I know,mmmmm must happen every minute hey.

Lucky you don't live in Mt Thomas... that place is the crime capital of the world!

[TUF_302]

You just have to watch COPS to see how much respect American cops get from people, they are aloud to be alot more in your face and rough with crims and it shows, alot of people are scared of them which isnt such a bad thing!

[Agro_EF]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Yeah lets string everyone up with piano wire,and hang em from telegraph poles as examples..

Or...
Just stop reading the tabloid rags,and watching aca,how often has this stuff happened to you?
Never has me,or anyone I know,mmmmm must happen every minute hey.

Maybe you was in cotton wool all your life or had them in your ears, as i have seen my fair share and don't want to see it again.

[J.C.]

Lotto, I believe you raise a valid point. I dread the day my son or daughter become old enough to go to night clubs etc. You can teach your kids respect but if no one respects them they can easily become a casuality of an unprovoked attack brought on by drugs and/or alcohol which can easy destroy their life with one blow.

Seems like many have little respect for there fellow human beings and the opinions that we are all entilted to.

Secretly, I pray for open session on scum who bash, rape, molest the elderly, children or the innocent. There is no place in society for scum such as they.

[holmsy]

it is getting worse in my area.
everytime iv gone into town in geelong every 20 meters is a group of people sayin they are about to go kick somones *** for very little reason. and half of them actually do.
some of the **** that goes on here is rediculous. the amount of brutal rapes seems to be higher. such as people put a bottle in a girl and jumped on her. smashing the bottle.

people are screwed in the head. if it took zero tolerance to prevent this stuff then so be it.
for a couple of weeks after certain incidents the town gets flooded with cops at night and things get better (not perfect but better)
then the attention is taken away so the cops disappear.

[MO]

Get real...there is zero tolerance....just not enough cops to go around.

[MO]

So who out there has the balls to sign up and be a cop and step outside the very restrictive rules they have to follow??

[HLC]

and her i was thinking that this was gonna be about chuck schuldiners side project before he died.

[lotto]

Originally Posted by MO

Get real...there is zero tolerance....just not enough cops to go around.

first comment^



So who out there has the balls to sign up and be a cop and step outside the very restrictive rules they have to follow??


second comment^



mmm!!

[ba-xtx]

i think that the cops do a pretty good job considering. you have to remember aswell that when a rapist or a murderer gets min goal time it is the courts and the judge that is to balme not the police. dont get me wrong though the cops can get it wrong and they can tend to single groups of people out but hey you do nothin wrong and you will be fine.

[uranium_death]

Quite often we hear of "innocent" people being beaten up unprovoked but I don't believe it everytime.

Sometimes, it can be quite the contrary. But I do believe respect to police in Australia is pathetic and the government does a pathetic job at protecting them.

S11 in 2000 was the best example. The police had dole-bludging morons trying to scale the fence, throwing bottles, urine and faeces at the cops and all the cops did was do their job. They whacked people to make them back off. The picture was clear...they should not have been there. If they were safely at home, nobody would have been hurt.

You'll find that once the government and legal system recognises police rights, people will act in accordance.

Oh, and 4Vman, classic line.

I've always said that Ramsay Street and Summer Bay are the worst places to live. Every week somebody becomes pregnant, or something stupid happens.

I wish Australian police had the same power that the American police had. Once again, the government needs to protect police as they are doing their job.

[Flouro_Joe]

Oxygen thieves like this one are the problem, calls a random cop a POS:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...rom=public_rss
The peasant spends his compensation payout at Mc Donalds.

[VSSII]

Originally Posted by Flouro_Joe

Oxygen thieves like this one are the problem, calls a random cop a POS:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...rom=public_rss
The peasant spends his compensation payout at Mc Donalds.

More of the same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5spzb0U5K0Y

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by VSSII

More of the same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5spzb0U5K0Y

Just watched the clip, what a load of rabble this lot are.
The video clearly shows it didn't happen and he faked it.

I hope the Ambulance department charge him for the call out, which I believe is a few hundred dollars these days. There was probably someone who really needed an Ambo and this cretin is wasting their time with his malicious claims.
The stupid part is his mates run to his aid saying "We got it on camera brother", they got nothin' except him faking it, then they give a copy to the media.
:togo: :togo: :togo:

[J.C.]

Yes, oxygen thieves is the correct term. Tend to get short of breathe around DH's such as he.

[Feathers]

A few of my friends are cops, and the stories we get of what they have to deal with, and how they get treated while at work are horrible.

[mrniceguy]

Zero tolerance works if its applied in the right way ie to yobs in nightclub areas, car thieves, muggers etc. But when its applied to things like jaywalking, street drinking, smoking a joint, having an "unroadworty" car etc then i dont agree with it. Zero tolerance also takes away a cops ability to apply discretion. These means Joe Average having a beer in the park with his family is treated the same way as a yob getting boozed up on the local primary school oval with his mates.

Just for an example before hurricane Katrina hit there was a law introduced in New Orleans that meant you could go to jail for 10 days for jaywalking! And a couple of those people where in jail when the hurricane hit.... and the police records were flooded. A couple of hundred days in a maximum security jail later and they where free.

From what ive read crime is on the decrease anyhow, its just that nowadays we hear about it more.

[mrniceguy]

And as for these blokes who mug and bash old people, well the law already allows for long jail terms for any sort of physical assault, it just seems some judges dont like to do it, in WA anyway. Maybe a mandatory minimum sentence for anyone convicted of 3 assaults? And no it shouldnt be on the first offense, heres why... Just recently i read a news story about a bloke who was waiting in a queue for a taxi with his mates. Some blokes pushed in in the queue (supposedly) so this bloke starts a fight with them, gets punched out, cracks his head on the ground and dies. Now he started the fight (sure there was some provocation) but he could of just as easily let it slide. Now the bloke who defended himself is on a manslaughter charge. Its seems if you are involved in a fight, and you win, then you are the one who cops the charge, even if you where defending yourself

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

. Its seems if you are involved in a fight, and you win, then you are the one who cops the charge, even if you where defending yourself

Exactly why we need good judges and in some cases minimum sentences are invalid because even if found guilty theres no way he deserves the same sentence as someone whos not acting in self defence...And there are even much more extreme cases than that. I try never to judge anyone untill I know the full story. The only exception are with Granny bashings or child rapes etc as I think theres no justification possible

[[Tonko]]

[sexr6tasy]

I myself have been the victim of stupidy

This arab guy didn't like the fact that my gf had entered the local servo from the out way instead of the in way sure it was her fault but it was also 2am in the morning on a Saturday with no traffic and was an honest mistake.
So he starts yelling and abusing us we ignore him because it was a mistake we made, continue to drive and park in the servo hop out the car to go inside when he jumps out of his car and starts running up to my g/f who had just got out the drives side and starts yelling in her face so she starts yelling back at him so i run around the car put my hands up with flat palms towards him and say "calm down man calm down" but they continue to argue and he starts raising his fists with crossed arms like hes gonna double hit her so i say "you don't hit women mate" when then he says to me who hasn't said **** only for him and my gf to calm down "im not going to hit her im going to hit you" this 30year old something arab is telling me a 21year old hes gonna hit me instead of hitting my gf hes such a nice guy?
Im like wtf he then takes a cheap shot swing at my face lucky hes so slow i duck under his arm and instinctively crack him right in his mouth he staggers back 2 steps then comes at me again this time he gets me in the face so it continues on from there till he starts running away from me telling me to get away from him and then calls the cops! Long story short this nice ex british cop sorted it all about by getting him to drop the assault charge on me for assaulting him first? because hes well known to the police as a trouble maker.
p.s forgot to mention he also dropped the charge he made against me because all the witnesses at the servo agreed with our version of the story

[Keepleft]

It's actually very easy to go to prison in Australia these days, for the lamest things, unlike laws as applied generally pre 1988.

But, where it really counts and long term 'punishment' is desired or 'expected', and where maximum potential at law is high - 10 - 25 years, and you get a poor sentencing result, blame in part lefty inspired;-

"Judicial Sentencing Guidelines".

The aims of sentencing are clearly not identical with the aims of the criminal law itself. Sentencing is the stage after the imposition of criminal liability, and may be characterised as a public judicial judgment of the degree to which the offender may rightly be ordered to suffer legal punishment. The conviction establishes that the offender may be subjected to judicial sentencing, within the applicable limits, and so sentencing decisions are concerned with the degree of condemnation and with the form of the sentence.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro...256ECF000942BA

Bit by bit, that which older Australian's inherited is being removed.

http://law.anu.edu.au/nissl/Timmins.pdf

[Tote]

For those who would like to move to the American justice system I suggest that you go and live there for a while, all the system achieves is locking up the young males in lower socio economic areas and turning them into criminals, destroying any chances that they may have of leading a productive life and thus completing the circle when they have children.
As an example watch any episode of COPS and you will see the story repeated:
Cop pulls up car for broken taillight
Cop has reason to seach car
Cop finds Drug paraphanalia
Suspect claims that he dosent own it
Cop drags suspect off to jail for lying to him.
What they dont show is the effect of being put in jail for a minor offence on the persons life.
Imagine if you were pulled over for tinted taillights for example and instead of being defected or let off with a warning as many people on here have been the police searched your car, found a bong and you ended up spending 3 months in gaol?
I believe that our current laws do a pretty good job and that our police also do a good job of enforcing those laws. If you are concerned about the level of violence escalating in our cities have a look herelinky and you will see that gang violence is hardly a new thing or getting worse despite the valliant attempts of the tabloid current affairs shows to mae it appear so.

Regards,
Tote

[lotto]

Originally Posted by Tote

For those who would like to move to the American justice system I suggest that you go and live there for a while, all the system achieves is locking up the young males in lower socio economic areas and turning them into criminals, destroying any chances that they may have of leading a productive life and thus completing the circle when they have children.
As an example watch any episode of COPS and you will see the story repeated:
Cop pulls up car for broken taillight
Cop has reason to seach car
Cop finds Drug paraphanalia
Suspect claims that he dosent own it
Cop drags suspect off to jail for lying to him.
What they dont show is the effect of being put in jail for a minor offence on the persons life.
Imagine if you were pulled over for tinted taillights for example and instead of being defected or let off with a warning as many people on here have been the police searched your car, found a bong and you ended up spending 3 months in gaol?
I believe that our current laws do a pretty good job and that our police also do a good job of enforcing those laws. If you are concerned about the level of violence escalating in our cities have a look herelinky and you will see that gang violence is hardly a new thing or getting worse despite the valliant attempts of the tabloid current affairs shows to mae it appear so.

Regards,
Tote

sorry, i dont agree when i was in the states,and i have been there more than once,

one night some college friends i had there,where driving got pulled over for broken tailight,they asked if anyone had anything on them,one of my mates pulled a couple of joints in his pocket and tiny bit of dope,we where all well behaved,they gave him a bit of a talking too,told the driver to get the light fixed ,told us to stay out of trouble and have a good night!!

I saw an old lady get pushed to the ground and her bag snatched,the guy run of down the road and the offender was tackled to the ground .,by a huge black guy and held until the cops came,i wandered down to look,and when they searched him he had crack pipe and some crystal meph on him,of to jail buddy!

look i know its only two cases and they do get it wrong,but please dont believe everything you see on cops-sometimes its just because the cameras are there!!

cheers

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by lotto

sorry, i dont agree when i was in the states,and i have been there more than once,

one night some college friends i had there,where driving got pulled over for broken tailight,they asked if anyone had anything on them,one of my mates pulled a couple of joints in his pocket and tiny bit of dope,we where all well behaved,they gave him a bit of a talking too,told the driver to get the light fixed ,told us to stay out of trouble and have a good night!!

I saw an old lady get pushed to the ground and her bag snatched,the guy run of down the road and the offender was tackled to the ground .,by a huge black guy and held until the cops came,i wandered down to look,and when they searched him he had crack pipe and some crystal meph on him,of to jail buddy!

look i know its only two cases and they do get it wrong,but please dont believe everything you see on cops-sometimes its just because the cameras are there!!

cheers

and where exactly in the US was this that you were pulled over?

I got pulled over in LA when I was 20. Situation ran like this.

I pull over. I hear from the rear of the car to put my hands out of the window. 1 policeman approaches the car with his holster undone and hand on his weapon. 2nd policeman stays by the rear of the vehicle with weapon drawn.

This is a typical traffic stop mind you.

I was 20 and in LA at the time they had a curfew(Which I was unaware of at the time only having just arrived in LA the day before from Vancouver) so they were quite ready to take me to jail until my parents arrived to pick me up because I was a minor(under 21). I explained how that might take a few days to happen as they arent in the country. This they quickly deduced was the truth after going over my international license (Again) and actually reading it this time. In the end I had to have my Boss who was a Lawyer & Crime Scene Consultant vouch for me, and I was escorted back to my hotel. Otherwise I'd have spent the night in lockup irregardless of my country of origin.

Working for who I did at the time, I got to see a hell of alot more. Alot more then any member of the general public would want to see.

Zero Tollerance = Zero Intelligence

It removes the ability of the officer attending to use his own judgement on intent and harmful act. The law that was impacting me was designed to keep underage gangs off the street, but the Officer was unable to differentiate due to the operational restraints of "zero tollerence". I was lucky to be able to bend the situation as much as I did.

Justice systems are complex machines full of imperfect humans(as all humans are), imperfect laws(as all laws are) and will chew you up and spit you out should you see fit to start altering how they work. More then enough politicians have felt its effect on reelection night after trying to tinker with it.

The US Legal system is a support apparatus to the social security system. Those who dont believe it, are simply lying to themselves. Tote is 100% correct in his estimation. Voters dont want to see money spent on mental health or welfare as its deemed a waste of money. However money spent on law enforcement is always popular. Treat the Symptom. Not the cause.

[nugget378]

I fail to understand what the original poster is asking?
Dont we have zero tolerance now?
I mean you report a crime to the police,and the offender is known,do they just choose not to follow it up?
Ummm well just let it slide this time and not charge him or her,but we promise next time you report a crime we will charge the offender.
The police forces Job is to bring offenders to court,this they do if they have the evidence,yes all of them,they dont just book some and "tolerate" others.

Maybe a better name for this thread would have been "rednecks and lynchmobs unite"

[lotto]

we dont have zero tolerance ,in oz at all,go out to western suburbs of sydney at night,you see police walking down the street getting abuzed called p...,etc, if we had zero tolerance those guys would be charged -no questions asked- yes minor offence on there record- but all the minor offences add up!1

at the moment they get away with so many minor offences and given the benifit of the doubt so many times-its only when they actually beat somone to a pulp or rape a women before the courts even get a look at them-all the time leading upto they have been getting away with heaps!!

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by lotto

we dont have zero tolerance ,in oz at all,go out to western suburbs of sydney at night,you see police walking down the street getting abuzed called p...,etc, if we had zero tolerance those guys would be charged -no questions asked- yes minor offence on there record- but all the minor offences add up!1

at the moment they get away with so many minor offences and given the benifit of the doubt so many times-its only when they actually beat somone to a pulp or rape a women before the courts even get a look at them-all the time leading upto they have been getting away with heaps!!

I must live in a cocoon or must be extremely lucky,might just go and buy myself a power ball.
I am out and about in western Sydney quite often,yet dont seem to ever see this type of stuff,dont know where you live Lotto but maybe its time you moved if its that bad.
Are you saying that we should be locking young people up for years at a time for minor street offences?
Good way to lessen crime,throw all the young fella's with a little attitude into crime schools,where they'll get taught how to do hold ups and get away with it,get bashed and victimised and come out with a rage against society looking to let loose.
Seems you were never young,you were a boy scout too I bet,I dont know about anyone else but Im not scared to walk any street in Sydney at night or any other time,talk about hysteria,Im just glad the likes of you dosnt make the decisions on crime and policing in NSW...