Large cars dying?

[turbodewd]

If I read another so-called journo say that Aussies are turning their backs on large sedans I will spew. These mongos are being fooled by the stats.

1. The Commodore is no.2 and the Falcon will be top 10 in monthly vehicle sales by the end of June. Their relative market share isnt what it was because tariffs have come down and aussies are richer.

2. Most families these days own TWO cars, and in many of those cases one is a large sedan. My family has an XR6T and my mrs has a Mazda 3. When I grew up my olds had one car for quite a while.

3. Your typical commodore and Falcon costs much more than a corolla so its high placing is commendable.

4. (neg) Admittedly fleet sales make up a big % of the sales of corollas, commodores, falcons.

5. Ford successfully hived off some falcon sales into Territory sales - thats not a failure, thats meeting customer demand.

6. Tariffs on imported cars have been reduced from heaps to 10% (currently, due to be 5% by 2010). So the local manufacturers are still competing despite our tiny population.

7. The f*ckin Falcon XR6 Turbo rocks! And poos all over any old grandpa, who usually is an average driver, in his poopy camry. (compelling argument hey!)

[3vXT]

I was reading today that the commodore/falcon sales 10 years ago was at 37% and is currently at 11%.
Also that falcon sales for the year are down 20% on last year which was 20% down on the previous year also. Part of that is obviously because there is a new model just about here but there has been some pretty good price cuts over the last year to help make up for that and thats not really an excuse for the previous years.

I can't speak for anyone else so i'll give you my point of view. I love my BA. Its fast enough for me, sounds and looks awesome IMO, and is still surprisingly good on fuel (<10L/100k's) when i'm not up it everywhere. The problem isn't with the car, its an awesome car. The problem is that even if i get 700K's from a tank its costing me close to $100 every time i fill it up and its just too much.
I don't want some little front wheel drive girls car, i want my big loud black rear drive, torquey mans car but i can barely afford it now and when fuel gets to $1.80, $1.90, $2 per litre i will have to sell it. Its exactly that simple for me.

[FGII-XR6]

you haven't heard of SVI gas? you have the full power of petrol driven and the running cost of a rubber band special

Originally Posted by ken2903

I was reading today that the commodore/falcon sales 10 years ago was at 37% and is currently at 11%.
Also that falcon sales for the year are down 20% on last year which was 20% down on the previous year also. Part of that is obviously because there is a new model just about here but there has been some pretty good price cuts over the last year to help make up for that and thats not really an excuse for the previous years.

I can't speak for anyone else so i'll give you my point of view. I love my BA. Its fast enough for me, sounds and looks awesome IMO, and is still surprisingly good on fuel (<10L/100k's) when i'm not up it everywhere. The problem isn't with the car, its an awesome car. The problem is that even if i get 700K's from a tank its costing me close to $100 every time i fill it up and its just too much.
I don't want some little front wheel drive girls car, i want my big loud black rear drive, torquey mans car but i can barely afford it now and when fuel gets to $1.80, $1.90, $2 per litre i will have to sell it. Its exactly that simple for me.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

you haven't heard of SVI gas? you have the full power of petrol driven and the running cost of a rubber band special

Yep. And the fact that Ford didn't get SVI up and running for FG, or even BFII is utterly bewildering. Ford really dropped the ball with this.

No doubt the 2010 V6 will have either SVI or liquid gas injection, but it should be here now!!

[duaned]

You just have to drive on the roads to see what is happening in the market. It is clear modern small cars are dominating our roads. I don't think the stats are wrong ( or fooling anyone) at all. I am just hoping the new falcon can work it's way up to the top 5, but with little rice burners selling for $12990 onwards I think it will be an up-hill battle. Bring on the diesel falcon!

[GS608]

How about the Govt. reduce fuel taxes which will surely keep the large car market alive, therefore keeping Aussies with a job at a local car manufacturer, making a home grown Australian car, also raise the tariffs on imported cars while they're at it.

Take us back 10-20 years.

[plext]

You're fairly new here so I'll point a couple of things out.

While we all love our Fords here, your argument is parochial at best and likely to get you torn to shreds. Your zeal is commendable, your logic in this case somewhat less so.

We don't appreciate such titles to threads, nor continual evading of the swear filter. Some is allowed to fly depending upon context, but it is never looked kindly upon in thread titles.

I'm glad to see such keen Ford enthusiasts, but please bear in mind that the majority of people here are adult and appreciate a well made argument which doesn't require colourful language to be effective.

[Silversurfer]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

How about the Govt. reduce fuel taxes which will surely keep the large car market alive, therefore keeping Aussies with a job at a local car manufacturer, making a home grown Australian car, also raise the tariffs on imported cars while they're at it.

Take us back 10-20 years.

Yes agree here, effin Govt is screwing us badly.Double dipping .Also effin fuel companies are massive trollops that could not care what they charge.
Man the banks are just as bad .The whole world is stuffed.You all wait and see what Iran has got going on.
If you think the fuelies have it good just wait , Iran is going to bowl everyone over and I do not mean in a war type way.These guys are really thinking ahead.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

If I read another so-called journo say that Aussies are turning their backs on large sedans I will spew. These mongos are being fooled by the stats.

Exactly what stats are they being fooled by? They look pretty clear to me. Both the Falcon and the Commodore are losing sales left right and centre. They're trending downwards at an alarming rate. The Territory is also trending downwards, finishing with its worst sales ever last month.

Possibly the best and most comprehensive breakdown of sales data you'll ever see is right here. Thanks Russellw.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=501

The list you provided does very little to counteract the argument of the jounos. Could you review the above graphs and advise exactly where the stats are being misinterpreted?

[desGT]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

...7. The f*ckin Falcon XR6 Turbo rocks! And poos all over any old grandpa, who usually is an average driver, in his poopy camry. (compelling argument hey!)

Sorry, but where do you think grandpas come from? Stay tuned fella, it will be apon you before you know it (and with some luck, a bit more maturer)! I would suggest that despite an actual car, you are probably a pretty "average driver" yourself (I know I am, and I have the experience of regularly racing a porsche).

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by desGT

Sorry, but where do you think grandpas come from? Stay tuned fella, it will be apon you before you know it (and with some luck, a bit more maturer)! I would suggest that despite an actual car, you are probably a pretty "average driver" yourself (I know I am, and I have the experience of regularly racing a porsche).

GT3 Cup Car ?

:dr_Evil:

[BAWagonWheels]

I'm a car salesperson and my experience is that nowadays we get 1 in 20 people ask for large cars. Small to medium cars are more realistic trend mainly due to the cost of rising petrol. They want something more economical and something that won't hit them in the face when they need to fill up the tank everytime. I have spoken to other car yards around my area and its the same story.

On that note: Holden is doing a good job aggressively advertising their commodores to stay in the market race. Ford should put in more effort in advertising too.

[swapper]

3. Your typical commodore and Falcon costs much more than a corolla so its high placing is commendable.

exactly running costs are more important to australians these days, with higher fuel costs etc. So are you supporting the argument here or going against it? it might be a high placing, but Falcon and Commodore used to be a mile ahead, different story now.

1. The Commodore is no.2 and the Falcon will be top 10 in monthly vehicle sales by the end of June. Their relative market share isnt what it was because tariffs have come down and aussies are richer.

exactly....you just supported the journo again.....the market share isnt what it used to be, are you being fooled by the stats?

6. Tariffs on imported cars have been reduced from heaps to 10% (currently, due to be 5% by 2010). So the local manufacturers are still competing despite our tiny population.

yep, they are competing they used to be dominating!

sorry mate, spew all you like but the the journo is right. the average aussie is turning their back on large cars, stats are facts, they are good indicators......you said it yourself market share iis decreasing, give me one good argument showing that aussies arent turning their backs on larger cars.

[whiskieboy]

As one of the people who makes the falcon I can assure you we have known and been aware of the demise of the large car sector for more than a decade. Over and above the arguments that have been put forth, the basic fact is that there is almost no "normal" family as they used to be, with 1 car dad working and mum at home with the 2.3 kids. Every thing has changed which is why Corolla have been best sellers so many times. It's not the car it's the market. I would love to print you off a chart of these facts, but i'm not smart enough to figure out how.

[colossus]

So given that its so obvious to all and sundry that the large market has declined dramatically and will continue to do so unless fuel prices fall dramatically (yeah right) then isnt the next logical conclusion from a business perspective to design and build Aussie made small and medium cars to undercut the Japanese and Euro competition?

Ford and GM are losing billions yet anyone 10 years old and up can see what the business solution would be.

Or is it a case of the dinosaurs becoming extinct because they wont adapt to change?

[swapper]

isnt the next logical conclusion from a business perspective to design and build Aussie made small and medium cars to undercut the Japanese and Euro competition?

Ford and GM are losing billions yet anyone 10 years old and up can see what the business solution would be.

Or is it a case of the dinosaurs becoming extinct because they wont adapt to change?

ding ding

i would have thought that that would be the smart move, i guess you would assume the big guys at the OEMs would no better......but sometimes im not so sure

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by colossus

So given that its so obvious to all and sundry that the large market has declined dramatically and will continue to do so unless fuel prices fall dramatically (yeah right) then isnt the next logical conclusion from a business perspective to design and build Aussie made small and medium cars to undercut the Japanese and Euro competition?

Ford and GM are losing billions yet anyone 10 years old and up can see what the business solution would be.

Or is it a case of the dinosaurs becoming extinct because they wont adapt to change?

Ummm, you do know that Ford is assembling the Focus at Broadmeadows from 2010????

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Abacus

Ummm, you do know that Ford is assembling the Focus at Broadmeadows from 2010????

I knew someone would pull me up on that! My responce to this is too little, too late. The market has been changing dramatically since early this decade but they respond by introducing a single model in the year 2010 - its like watching a slow dying snail.

Also in addition to my first post where are the diesels (both Falcon and Commodore?) BMW now sells the majority of its cars in this country as diesels yet we dont even offer one! (yes yes ones coming, thats all we ever seem to hear. They will shut their doors by then.)

By all means keep the hero cars - I certainly love my GT - but if you want to keep the companies viable they need good small, medium local built cars with diesel options. SVI is all well and good but the public seem to hate gas with a passion - diesel is "trendy".

It sounds like I'm being harsh, but its that I just dont want to see the local industry die in this country.

[Lab_Boy]

The real trouble for the classic Falcon or Commodore will come when fleets and government turn away from them due to the petrol costs and low resale return.

Personally I love old 6's and 8's. as one with 300,000 on the clock is just fine, where as a 1.6l lazer with 300,000 on the clock is lucky to still be alive.

Unfortunalty the state of the car in 20 years is not going to effect the fleet buyers decision, seeing as they ditch their cars after 2-3 years.

Environmental pressures have, and will continue to cause the government buyers to leave these cars too. I work In tassie and have seen the new "approved" government cars list. This list limits the cars the govt departments here are allowd to purchase/lease etc and the big sedans are getting the flick unless the department can prove there is a specific need for a vechile that size, such as towing.

*edit for my rubbish spelling

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by Luke_LTD

The real trouble for the classic Falcon or Commodore will come when fleets and governemtn turn away from them due to the petrol costs and low return.

Thing is, this need not happen.

Ford could have manufactured a dedicated SVI Falcon for about the same price as a petrol one. Same performance, 40-50% lower fuel costs. All the advantages of a large car with the fuel costs of a Corolla.

Instead they stuck with the old-school E-gas engine, which is fine, except it loses about 40kw to the petrol engine. Surely, it didn't have to be this way.

[LTDterri]

Sad to say but the increasing fuel costs will effect large car sales. I love my BA and Territory but when I bought the Territory in 2006 petrol was about 1.05 to 1.15 its now pushing 1.50, I like alot of people are now thinking will I be able to afford these increasing costs of fuel and if it keeps going up then the Terri and BA will be downsized, Im hoping Ford will as they claim have a diesel large car available soon

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by LTDterri

I like alot of people are now thinking will I be able to afford these increasing costs of fuel and if it keeps going up then the Terri and BA will be downsized, Im hoping Ford will as they claim have a diesel large car available soon

Have you considered a Mondeo? They come in a diesel variant.

[LTDterri]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Have you considered a Mondeo? They come in a diesel variant.

definitely will seriously consider the Mondeo, but the wife and I were talking last night that at this stage the loss on the Territory and the extra we would need to put on another car would be too much...But I love my Territory and BA and I will struggle to get rid of them

[exrtnz]

A high powered version of this would cut fuel costs for the falcons to next too nothing, could be a few years away though.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4214707.html

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

If I read another so-called journo say that Aussies are turning their backs on large sedans I will spew. These mongos are being fooled by the stats.

The 'mongo's' are right.

The public is voting with it's cheque's !

There are many more marques competing in the market then there were 20 years ago.

Company cars are often "user choosers", or "salary sacrifice" these days. So the driver can choose the car they want, rather than be told they are getting a Falcon OR a Commodore.

Imported cars are much cheaper than they were and are very competitively priced (tarriff reduction) Imports used to account for 20% of the market, now it's more like 80%.

SUV's are now popular and often chosen for the family ahead of a large car (that wasn't an option 20 years ago).

Fuel is getting more expensive.

Tastes change.

The Ford and Holden 'brand's' aren't as strong as they once were because of the increased competition.

The large car IS dying.

[exrtnz]

They should have a 300kw one of these in few years, drop it the falcon and off you go . but could be tricky modding it!
http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...cus/index.html

[Nikked]

Nah, large cars arn't dead, just the heart of the machine is on the edge....

[Abacus]

I agree Ford has been slow to respond to the changing market conditions. IMO the blame for this has to be laid at the lack of leadership at head office during the Gormless years.

That being said, there is a limit to how quickly a large organisation like a car manufacturer can move.

2010 is going to be a huge year. Facilifts and new models, new engines galore including diesels, presumably new transmissions to suit, closing Geelong, Australian assembly of the Focus. The fact that these events are all happening at once probably mean that Broadmeadows have as much stuff as they can handle atm.

Looking forward I'd like to see Ford commit to Australian assembly of the Mondeo, but I guess it has to prove itself in the marketplace first.

The other thing I'd like to see Ford do is produce dedicated injected LPG variants of all models, including Focus and Mondeo. Injected LPG saps so little power as compared with petrol that the difference is unnoticeable in day to day driving, and it would work well in the 4 cylinder cars.

Ditching the fuel system, as they have done with the current E-gas falcons, means they can have large dual-tank LPG supplies under the car whilst preserving boot/load space. The cost of manufacture shouldn't be much more than the cost of producing the petrol variants - the main additional cost is in the steel LPG tanks, as compared to the petrol variety. And with petrol tipped to go through the $2.00 a litre barrier sooner rather than later, the fuel cost savings even on a Focus would be significant.

[Bossxr8]

The diesel in 2010 will be a big bonus that will go someway towards helping the large car survive, and the Focus in 2011 will help Ford Australia remain viable. The V6 is supposed to be more economical as well, especially if it has Direct Injection which results in better economy and up to a 25% reduction in emissions, which might attract green conscience buyers. An LPG injection option should also be available for the V6.

So Ford are making steps towards the future.