Holden 'upgrades' base Commodore V6....advantage Falcon!

XR4568 · 14-10-2008, 11:14 AM

So it loses power and torque, gains 0.2l/100km and retains the 4 speed slushbox. Have we a new case for the 'what were they thinking' wall?

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2574DE00062E75

Holden has not abandoned its fuel economy push with the Commodore’s 3.6-litre global V6, however, announcing the immediate fitment of the “premium” version of its Alloytec V6 as standard across the Commodore range.

Announced deep within Holden’s AIMS press release, the move sees Omega and Berlina versions of the VE Commodore sedan and Sportwagon, as well as the base Holden Ute, lower their official ADR 81/02 average fuel consumption figure by between 0.2 and 0.4L/100km.

However, while the VE sedan’s official fuel consumption is reduced from 10.8 to 10.6L/100km (its average CO2 emissions similarly drop, from 256 to 252g/km), the entry-level Commodore still falls short of its key rivals in terms of fuel efficiency.

Ford’s entry-level FG Falcon XT returns 10.5L/100km with its standard five-speed automatic and 10.1L/100km with its optional six-speed ZF auto. Toyota’s Aurion V6 returns a class-leading 9.9L/100km at base level.

Meantime, the base Sportwagon models reduce their official fuel consumption figures from 11.1 to 10.7L/100km (CO2 emissions drop from 261 to 256g/km), while V6-powered Holden Utes drop a similar amount - from 11.3 to 10.9L/100km (CO2: 259 v 268g/km).

Crucially, the entry-level Holden V6 now scores the variable exhaust valve timing system of the “High Output” V6 that powers models from the Calais upwards, but it remains mated to GM’s aged four-speed automatic transmission in the Omega and Berlina (and base Ute), which also miss out on premium models’ dual exhaust system.

As such, the “recalibrated” base V6 does not share the 195kW/340Nm performance outputs of the V6 found in premium models, nor even the 180kW and 330Nm peaks of the models they replace.

In fact, with 175kW available at 6500rpm (500rpm higher than before) and 325Nm of torque on tap from 2400rpm (200rpm lower than currently), Holden’s new entry-level V6 offers 5kW and 5Nm less than it did previously.

Now on par with the Commodore’s LPG Alloytec V6, Holden’s revised base petrol V6 is now at a greater performance disadvantage when compared with the Falcon’s 190kW/383Nm 4.0-litre straight six and the Aurion’s 200kW/336Nm 3.5-litre V6, despite remaining less fuel-efficient.

RG · 14-10-2008, 11:17 AM

This can't be right, if it is it is the dumbest move ever.

XR4568 · 14-10-2008, 11:22 AM

Goauto do mention in their article that this info was buried away in the Holden SMS media release, so sounds like it is true but Holden don't want to beat their chests about it......because frankly, there is nothing to boast about!

I can understand the lack of dual exhaust, but surely the 5 speed auto should have been made stock to match Falcon in terms of refinemet and to further improve economy.

Ah well, more fool them I say..

**TUF_302** · 23-10-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell

This can't be right, if it is it is the dumbest move ever.

It certainly is just that!

:

csv8 · 14-10-2008, 11:23 AM

All will be well, when Chrysler take charge of GM !!!!

Smoke Pursuit · 14-10-2008, 11:29 AM

WTF!

Holden is dumb.. Why not just make the 195 kw motor standard with 5 speed auto.. They are seriously lacking, but people still buy them!

DoreSlamR · 14-10-2008, 11:53 AM

Seriously guys, it doesn't matter if it's a stupid move coz..Holdens go better ok.

Don't ask why...it's just COZ!

:

XR4568 · 14-10-2008, 11:56 AM

I reckon they have tuned it to meet the ADR test too. .2 is a poofteenth better than before

Also, would have been nice for Goauto to quote FG Falcon engine figures rather than BF figures. Its the little things that annoy....

**Silver Ghia** · 14-10-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

Seriously guys, it doesn't matter if it's a stupid move coz..Holdens go better ok.

Don't ask why...it's just COZ!

:

Yep and because they go better, the mindless sheep will still buy them to retain the 50% higher sales than the FG.

EgoFG · 14-10-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Yep and because they go better, the mindless sheep will still buy them to retain the 50% higher sales than the FG.

they need to hold something over for the next model

FalconXR6 · 14-10-2008, 01:22 PM

Wouldn't moving to the 5 speed auto have netted similar gains while retaining (or even improving upon) performance?

Seems like a strange move...then again it really doesn't matter how much quoted power a V6 Commodore has. They're all boat anchor transport motors put in place becuase not everyone will pay for a V8 - people just want to be seen in a Commodore becuase they're awesome...

It really is insulting that Holden continue to force the old 4spd auto onto it's un-caring, ill-informed, ignorant customers. I wouldn't be as angry about getting a VE Commo company car forced upon me if they had the 5spd auto and some decent grunt (torque).

Smoke Pursuit · 14-10-2008, 11:58 AM

Well the Falcon now has 20KW more!

XR4568 · 14-10-2008, 12:01 PM

not to mention an even bigger torque advantage! Surely thats worth Ford torquing about too!

JutroXR8 · 14-10-2008, 01:45 PM

It also looks like the V8 with AFM will drop about 10kW as well. However it will gain 1l/100km (claimed) on fuel efficiency.

CSV_LS1 · 14-10-2008, 01:55 PM

They probably have a contract with using the 4 speeds. Or it's too expensive to use another auto.

220XR8 · 14-10-2008, 04:20 PM

As low spec as they are, they will still outsell the Ford. For what reason I don't know, but to say Holden buyers are ill informed and ignorant is a bit rich as Holdens are exposed through advertising way more than Ford.

Maybe it's the Ford people who are stupid for not buying the FG in any numbers, seeing it's such a great car..

BLUEYBA · 14-10-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220XR8

As low spec as they are, they will still outsell the Ford. For what reason I don't know, but to say Holden buyers are ill informed and ignorant is a bit rich as Holdens are exposed through advertising way more than Ford.

Maybe it's the Ford people who are stupid for not buying the FG in any numbers, seeing it's such a great car..

they are exposed to advertising that leaves out the important information so they don't really know what they're getting

Lynch'd · 14-10-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEYBA

they are exposed to advertising that leaves out the important information so they don't really know what they're getting

They're not ill informed. They're just exposed to effective advertising. Something Ford's marketing department has long been incompetent at doing.

Edit: I'm not trying to steer this thread down that argument either. It has been done to death elsewhere.

FalconXR6 · 14-10-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEYBA

they are exposed to advertising that leaves out the important information so they don't really know what they're getting

Spot on Bevan!

That's my point - ill informed and ignorant. This is why they flocking to Commodore's and not even considering FG. Because if they did, they would be buying FG's.

I'll be doing a survey here shortly around this topic which may bring up some interesting results...

Rodp · 14-10-2008, 05:09 PM

They're saving $$'s and the mass market wouldn't even know the difference. It's a bean counter move pure and simple.

Racecraft · 14-10-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

They're saving $$'s and the mass market wouldn't even know the difference. It's a bean counter move pure and simple.

Exactly, save a few bucks on the entry level Joe Blow Commie and still make a sale.. Sounds like a sound business plan to me.

220XR8 · 14-10-2008, 05:10 PM

My point is if FORD people are not buying the FG what hope have they got of enticing Holden people to a better product

**Falcon Coupe** · 14-10-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220XR8

My point is if FORD people are not buying the FG what hope have they got of enticing Holden people to a better product

Yep, that's the third time you have told us since yesterday, we get the message.

snappy · 14-10-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220XR8

My point is if FORD people are not buying the FG what hope have they got of enticing Holden people to a better product

well if the fg is a upgrade from the ba imagine what the upgrade from the previous holden would be.
Id say there is a lot of fords being sold but i think you would find they are mostly second hand ba/bf there a many of these cars with very entinsing prices . I think that the second hand ba/bf is the fg greastest enemy.

220XR8 · 14-10-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

well if the fg is a upgrade from the ba imagine what the upgrade from the previous holden would be.
Id say there is a lot of fords being sold but i think you would find they are mostly second hand ba/bf there a many of these cars with very entinsing prices . I think that the second hand ba/bf is the fg greastest enemy.

I agree it's way too similar.

Nikked · 25-10-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220XR8

I agree it's way too similar.

:

why does a thread on holden engines have to include dim comments on BF v's FG....oh well, banned eh.

manxman · 08-11-2008, 10:25 AM

Frankly Scarlet, I couldn't give a damn.

I won't be buying either anytime soon, or ever, so I have no particular concern. Both cars are grossly overpowered rubbish, and totally unnecessarily so, IMO. It's only the leadfooted public that keep them making the trash. Who really NEEDS 3L+ for a family car????? Even worse if for one person. This planets resources can't afford the drain of making and running such monsters indefinitely. Someday, something will have to give. If we're not careful. it might be us! Terminally!

bd737 · 09-11-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxman

Frankly Scarlet, I couldn't give a damn.

I won't be buying either anytime soon, or ever, so I have no particular concern. Both cars are grossly overpowered rubbish, and totally unnecessarily so, IMO. It's only the leadfooted public that keep them making the trash. Who really NEEDS 3L+ for a family car????? Even worse if for one person. This planets resources can't afford the drain of making and running such monsters indefinitely. Someday, something will have to give. If we're not careful. it might be us! Terminally!

Why are you a member of these Ford Forums if that's your attitude? Take your Honda Elite and cram it - please.

manxman · 08-11-2008, 10:44 AM

Now that I think about it, we might all be wrong, Perhaps Commode-ors are the better car, faster, quicker, handle better; Surely all those juvenile car thieves can't be THAT wrong, can they??? I mean, they know what they want, so they'd always take the best car for the job, surely? And thrills is the name of the game, so why not.......?.

Airmon · 14-10-2008, 05:16 PM

Fleet buyers and mum and dads looking for a family cruiser could probably care less about its power outputs, and those still wanting a more performance orientated 6cylinder can opt for the Calais or SV6, I doubt it will affect their sales greatly.
20kw down on the base model maybe, but they've decided that in the current climate its better that they are .1L/100km down on fuel economy rather then .3 .
Sounds ridiculous to us, but looks better for them on paper.