LPi I6 delayed until 2011

[Bossxr8]

It gets a bit lost in this article but the new liquid injection I6 has been delayed until 2011. 5th paragraph.


http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576F7007FD467

[Ghiadude]

for those that are lazy like me ...

Ford’s new liquid injection LPG Falcon has has been pushed back from October to early 2011 and, while Holden is yet to commit to a Euro 4-compliant replacement for its LPG Commodore, Ford now says its first ever four-cylinder Falcon (powered by FoMoCo’s new direct-injection turbocharged EcoBoost four) could also be just a year away.

[dannyhilton]

I'm getting worried about the Falcon. For a long time I was convinced Ford would give the go ahead for a GRWD platform, securing the Falcon name plate. We all knew the Falcon Wagon was going to die, but things keep getting pushed back, delayed and Ford have kept so silent. It reminds me of the demise of the Fairlane. I want to be proven wrong. Regardless, I'm very excited for this new LPG engine and hopeful the EcoBoost engine will work well in the Falcon. Only time will tell...

[XR Martin]

Might be a big one next year. New Terry, LI LPG Falcon, Ranger, Focus?, Kuga?

[PoweredByCNG]

The longer they delay the release of this, the less money they're going to make. Orbital and Ford have invested a lot of money in this project and I am disappointed that it has taken it so long to get off the ground.

[sxckevo]

yeh the really need to pull there finger out of there bums they are possibly losing customers, there needs to be a major release this year as well as the 5.0 to get the ball rolling for them

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Might be a big one next year. New Terry, LI LPG Falcon, Ranger, Focus?, Kuga?

By the Time Kuga gets here, it will be too late, much like the Terry is already way overdue.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

By the Time Kuga gets here, it will be too late, much like the Terry is already way overdue.

It's never too late and I'll tell you the reason Territory is "late" has more
to do with Ford stretching out project expenses to make it affordable
to them and consumers. Just be grateful we weren't steam rollered into
the new Explorer. I'm actually surprised that Ford let Territory go through
with unitary Explorer knocking on the door step...

Until Kuga production starts in Asia we have SFA chance of getting it here
at a profitable price, ie under Territory RWD price...........

[Franco Cozzo]

Might as well as delay the new V8 as well and bring everything out in 2011, smash all the other auto manufacturers out of the ballpark with a massive range of new products. I think we get a face lifted Fiesta in 2011 too.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Might as well as delay the new V8 as well and bring everything out in 2011, smash all the other auto manufacturers out of the ballpark with a massive range of new products. I think we get a face lifted Fiesta in 2011 too.

The V8 cannot be delayed, the Boss production stops in July due to emissions regs.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

The V8 cannot be delayed, the Boss production stops in July due to emissions regs.

Should bring in heaps of them, enough to cover all the XR8 production until 2011, then switch.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Should bring in heaps of them, enough to cover all the XR8 production until 2011, then switch.

Yeah would only need 50 or so engines, should be easy enough :

[dannyhilton]

They'll have too much next year they won't know where to focus their attention. They need to promote the new Focus, the facelifted Mondeo, FG II, new Territory and maybe more. Fords marketing team will have a tough time Turing to get customers familiar with all these new products without confusing them.

[Luke Plaizier]

Hmm. Some interesting points.

(1) If the current V8 can't be sold from July1st, then neither can the current LPG engine right? But the LPG Wagon will be onsale until September? Have I heard all this right?

(2) Holden are not going to have an LPG solution after July 1st, and haven't even committed to one? Is that right too? So Holden must be pinning all their hopes on E85 then I take it?


Lukeyson

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Hmm. Some interesting points.

(1) If the current V8 can't be sold from July1st, then neither can the current LPG engine right? But the LPG Wagon will be onsale until September? Have I heard all this right?

I believe they can still sell the V8 through the rest of 2010, they just cannot produce it after the July deadline. The same would go for the wagon, they will just hoard enough stock to make it through the rest of the year but production will stop in July.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Hmm. Some interesting points.

(1) If the current V8 can't be sold from July1st, then neither can the current LPG engine right? But the LPG Wagon will be onsale until September? Have I heard all this right?

(2) Holden are not going to have an LPG solution after July 1st, and haven't even committed to one? Is that right too? So Holden must be pinning all their hopes on E85 then I take it?


Lukeyson

I wouldn't read too much into it.

1)Ford got dispensation to continue the LPG Falcons until September,
that was mostly to complete fleet orders but I wonder if the government
will give them another extension for E-Gas sedans until the LI LPG is ready
next year. Heck, October to January isn't a big stretch and the build numbers
aren't that much.....

2) Holden's LPG system is not the same as Ford's old mixer thing,
pretty sure the dual fuel already complies with at least Euro IV.
by switching between petrol and electric as needed, Holden might
overcome some of the hurdles Falcon E GAS is now facing for compliance.

It makes me think that Holden looked at dedicated LPG and saw it was too hard,
Ford on the other hand probably felt they could simply solve the problems...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

2) Holden's LPG system is not the same as Ford's old mixer thing,
pretty sure the dual fuel already complies with at least Euro IV.
by switching between petrol and electric as needed, Holden might
overcome some of the hurdles Falcon E GAS is now facing for compliance.

It makes me think that Holden looked at dedicated LPG and saw it was too hard,
Ford on the other hand probably felt they could simply solve the problems...

Holdens LPG V6 is still the old 3.6 Alloytec, not SIDI, so its not Euro 4.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holdens LPG V6 is still the old 3.6 Alloytec, not SIDI, so its not Euro 4.

The Alloytec in its standard form will comply with Euro 4 easier than any direct-injected engine...

[Bossxr8]

In terms of particle emissions then yes, but in other forms no. You can't say an engine that uses something like 1.3 L of petrol less per 100 km than a previous engine would be harder to get emissions compliant, it just requires a bit of extra work to make sure particle emissions are ok. Its simple science that for every extra litre of petrol you burn you get a corresponding increase in emissions out the tailpipe. And GM have already done the R&D on SIDI considering its already used both the 3.0 and 3.6 DI engines in the US. Wouldn't have been too hard for Holden to get it to pass Euro 4 as the engine was designed in the US to surpass those levels already, something the old 3.6 doesn't have.

I'd say its a simple case for Holden of not selling enough of them to justify getting it Euro 4 compliant, considering its the only model that uses the old 3.6. Just like the Territory Turbo come July.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holdens LPG V6 is still the old 3.6 Alloytec, not SIDI, so its not Euro 4.

Pretty sure that Holden were crowing back in 2008 that the Alloytec already complied to Euro 6,
something to do with corporate engine and US Tier 2 Bin 5 Emission for petrol already being
tougher than Europe's standards...

Here you go from Holden themselves in October 2008:

LINK
The upgraded all-alloy V6 engine reduces noxious tailpipe emissions* assisting petrol Commodore Omega and Berlina variants achieve the highest Green Vehicle Guide noxious emissions score possible (8.5 points out of 10), excluding electric vehicles.

The noxious emission levels meet Euro VI certification, a standard which does not come into effect in Europe until 2014.

[EDManual]

yeah, it really should all already be here.

Now is when it matters more.

[dannyhilton]

Better late than never, look at the Audi Q5 and Q7. While the Q7 isn't partially good looking, both models are selling very well. Just like the BMW X1, selling like hot cakes in Europe. As long as Ford get it here soon, and make a huge fuss about it, I'll be happy

[GS608]

Doesn't seem very smart, LiLPG should have been introduced with FG back in 08 :

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

Doesn't seem very smart, LiLPG should have been introduced with FG back in 08 :

We we're very lucky to get FG at all, remember how approval was delayed for such a long time in 2006?
Justification of Finance and then a long pause for trimming costs and government grant.

You guys don't know how close Ford Australia is sailing to the wind.
Not making the 2015 Falcon decision public until 2012 is very worrying indeed....

[Fairlane]

Christ what is with Ford, it seriously is not that hard for a full sized auto manufacturer to shove decent LPG in their top selling car.

Aftermarket has been able to do it for the best part of two years and fomoco Australia cant do with their hundreds of engineers and full test facilities :

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Christ what is with Ford, it seriously is not that hard for a full sized auto manufacturer to shove decent LPG in their top selling car.

Aftermarket has been able to do it for the best part of two years and fomoco Australia cant do with their hundreds of engineers and full test facilities :

It is because those aftermarket fitters mostly don't have to comply with Euro IV
and the approval system is much easier than OEMs like Ford or Holden face on new vehicles.
You have to prove emission reliability for at least 100,000 kms (Euro IV) and 160,000 klms for Euro V and VI.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It is because those aftermarket fitters mostly don't have to comply with Euro IV

Aftermarket LPG systems have had to comply with the same emissions regulations as the OEMs since 2004.

and the approval system is much easier than OEMs like Ford or Holden face on new vehicles.

Regarding emissions testing, not the case. It is trivial for an injected LPG system to pass (and maintain) Euro 4/5 when fitted to a properly maintained engine.

[nommic]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Aftermarket has been able to do it for the best part of two years and fomoco Australia cant do with their hundreds of engineers and full test facilities :

Aftermarket doesn't have the same standards of durability and regulations to work towards. They also don't have to worry about mass-manufacture and production feasibility.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Aftermarket has been able to do it for the best part of two years and fomoco Australia cant do with their hundreds of engineers and full test facilities :

JTG has been available since 2008 and Orbital LPI since mid-2009. If I and other FF members are successfully running the Orbital system, Ford should be in the same boat. Orbital have more than enough facilities at their headquarters to perform emissions and durability testing.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

JTG has been available since 2008 and Orbital LPI since mid-2009. If I and other FF members are successfully running the Orbital system, Ford should be in the same boat. Orbital have more than enough facilities at their headquarters to perform emissions and durability testing.

So, any idea as to why there's a hold up?