No 'gas' in america's taxi

saam · 07-09-2010, 01:42 PM

Whilst in america i took quite a few taxi's around and noticed that there was no gas petrol stations around.

I asked the taxi drivers if they drove on 'propoane' or gas, in which he said that propane wasnt sold in many outlets in america so they ran on petrol

And they are switching to hybrid cars soon but are finding them trouble so far.

go figure, i would have thought everyone in america would be on gas,or 'propane' in their taxi's just just us, but that wasnt the case

Sgt.Sweetchuck · 07-09-2010, 02:03 PM

Why would you bother with petrol being on average $US 2.73 a gallon or about 70c a litre

deesun · 07-09-2010, 02:04 PM

Isn't their petrol a lot cheaper than ours which would negate any conversion savings.

max · 07-09-2010, 02:05 PM

Yes I have noted that on trips to USA and Canada. Rather surprising I thought, especially given that taxi fares are comparatively cheap. E.g, nice comfy Towncar from Brooklyn to Mid-town Manhattan $30 in mad traffic during a subway shutdown. But then again petrol in the USA has always been moderately priced.

flappist · 07-09-2010, 02:46 PM

Our petrol is taxed heavily, LPG far less so.

If LPG were taxed at the same rate then it be more expensive to run on that petrol.

chevypower · 07-09-2010, 02:53 PM

I've often seen propane cost more than unleaded here, but if you go to Nevada, you will see every taxi runs on propane there.

Airmon · 07-09-2010, 04:24 PM

People in Brazil are probably wondering why we've only just got on the Ethanol bandwagon.

Apples and Oranges really.

Mr Hardware · 07-09-2010, 04:29 PM

The answer is simple
In australia we have a 38cpl tax on petrol
0c tax on LPG

In the US, they have basically no tax on their petrol
and no tax on their LPG

70cpl for petrol or 55cpl for LPG, who would bother with LPG?

saam · 08-09-2010, 09:53 AM

In LA the price was 2.99cpg, which is around 85cpl figure.... The question wouldnt even be around the taxi's driving on propane as there isnt enough outlets selling propane in the first place
At least that was the case in the lax area and hollywood

I fould it interesting as to why is wasnt available as easy as it is here not the price comparison...

brendo83 · 08-09-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saam

In LA the price was 2.99cpg, which is around 85cpl figure.... The question wouldnt even be around the taxi's driving on propane as there isnt enough outlets selling propane in the first place
At least that was the case in the lax area and hollywood

I fould it interesting as to why is wasnt available as easy as it is here not the price comparison...

The price and availability is directly related, If its not cheaper, then why would you run it? If nobody is using LPG/Propane then petrol stations are not going to waste money installing/maintaining for the one customer in a thousand that would want it. The price comparison is why its not easily available.

saam · 08-09-2010, 11:17 AM

well of course thats true to some degree, but thats not all the picture....

local and state goverments is more to the point here...... our goverment want us to use gas and its taxing it accordingly.. raising the cost of our gas each year...
which we export our product also

the US government have different ideas, maybe it why the war started in the first place ....... more oil for their petrol??

now you can see that price comparison is a really, really small proportion of why a country will choose a fuel over another...

fuel for thought...

PoweredByCNG · 08-09-2010, 11:40 AM

Whilst LPG/propane/Autogas isn't widely available in the States, Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is. You'll find that there are a lot more private vehicles running on CNG in the US than over here. With our vast gas resources, I often wonder why CNG hasn't taken off here like it has in the US...

flappist · 08-09-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Whilst LPG/propane/Autogas isn't widely available in the States, Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is. You'll find that there are a lot more private vehicles running on CNG in the US than over here. With our vast gas resources, I often wonder why CNG hasn't taken off here like it has in the US...

I find it somewhat amusing that a person who lives in the "most remote city on earth" would wonder why people would not buy a vehicle that runs on a weird fuel that is not available in most places and would not be for many years.

LPG and PULP are STILL rare and intermittent once you are away from the primary routes.

PoweredByCNG · 08-09-2010, 12:44 PM

If you think that natural gas is some mysterious 'weird fuel' then obviously you don't have any idea. Australia has HUGE natural gas reserves that can last us many decades. We'd be far better off using these resources ourselves rather than selling it all off to the Chinese for next to nothing and importing crude oil from the Middle East who essentially have the whole world in a headlock.

Natural gas infrastructure in Australia is already advanced. If the majority of residential properties in metropolitan areas around Australia have a mains gas supply, there's no reason why we can't use that gas to run our vehicles.

FordFalconBF · 08-09-2010, 12:51 PM

What kind of octane does compresses natural gas have? And can you get a CNG conversion kit in Australia? You could fill up at home couldn't you?

flappist · 08-09-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

If you think that natural gas is some mysterious 'weird fuel' then obviously you don't have any idea. Australia has HUGE natural gas reserves that can last us many decades. We'd be far better off using these resources ourselves rather than selling it all off to the Chinese for next to nothing and importing crude oil from the Middle East who essentially have the whole world in a headlock.

Natural gas infrastructure in Australia is already advanced. If the majority of residential properties in metropolitan areas around Australia have a mains gas supply, there's no reason why we can't use that gas to run our vehicles.

Spoken like a true believer.

We have heaps of uranium and coal too.

The problem is not how "wonderful" it is but the logistics of not being able to buy it everywhere.

Why would servo owners put it in if there are hardly any cars using it?
Why would anyone buy a CNG car if you can't get fuel for it?

I got my fingers burned several times with my BA GT-P requiring 95RON min, so much so that I always had a 20l jerrycan of fuel in the boot.

But that was 2003 and this is 2010.

A couple of weeks ago I travelled from Southport to Port Douglas via the bush in a car that required PULP. Twice we had to use ULP as PULP was not available.
If it had been LPG it would have benn many times more.

CNG may be "wonderful" but until it is available everywhere is just yet another fanboy's "wet dream".

brendo83 · 08-09-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saam

well of course thats true to some degree, but thats not all the picture....

local and state goverments is more to the point here...... our goverment want us to use gas and its taxing it accordingly.. raising the cost of our gas each year...
which we export our product also

the US government have different ideas, maybe it why the war started in the first place ....... more oil for their petrol??

now you can see that price comparison is a really, really small proportion of why a country will choose a fuel over another...

fuel for thought...

You're not making sense at all mate, initially you commented that you thought it was strange that there were not many places in the US selling LPG, people explained that the price difference between petrol and LPG makes it uneconomical to run, thus nobody was running it.
You then said it was not due to the price of LPG, but to do with the availability,
I then explained that the fact that it was not ecomonical to run meant nobody was interested in running LPG, and that is why no gas stations bother to sell it.
Now you've made a few more fairly vague comments about tax, the fact that we export LPG and the war, as reasons why LPG is available here, and not in the US which just makes no sense at all.

Its basic supply and demand, LPG is in demand here and has been for many years, therefore a decent supply network has been created. It is not in demand in the US so a supply network has not been set up.
The reason there is demand for LPG here and not in the US is due to the price, nothing more.

Now the price is certainly influnced by the government, but to say that the price of LPG is only a small factor is just plain incorrect, price is pretty much the only factor.

Fordman · 08-09-2010, 01:14 PM

Good Ol crown vics

LTDHO · 08-09-2010, 01:29 PM

I want US prices petrol!

Grobbo · 08-09-2010, 01:52 PM

Hold the phone here, CNG is available everywhere people have gas in thier house. The gas in your house is NG, the C is from compressing it.

Theoretically, you could fill your car up at HOME with just a compressor in your front yard.

In NZ during the petrol 'crisis' of the 70's, 10% of cars ran on CNG, it is comparible to LPG in economy, performance and conversion costs from what I recall.

And it burns even cleaner than LPG too.

One downside I think is you need heaps of the stuff, so it requires massive tanks, and if it's not going to be everywhere then you need to have a petrol tank as well just in case you run out.

So yeah, that's probably why it isn't used, that and possibly the Governments and Oil company's inability to make a lot of revenue off it...

Not so much about availability...

PoweredByCNG · 08-09-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Hold the phone here, CNG is available everywhere people have gas in thier house. The gas in your house is NG, the C is from compressing it.

Theoretically, you could fill your car up at HOME with just a compressor in your front yard.

That's precisely the point that I was trying to make.

flappist · 08-09-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Hold the phone here, CNG is available everywhere people have gas in thier house. The gas in your house is NG, the C is from compressing it.

Theoretically, you could fill your car up at HOME with just a compressor in your front yard.

In NZ during the petrol 'crisis' of the 70's, 10% of cars ran on CNG, it is comparible to LPG in economy, performance and conversion costs from what I recall.

And it burns even cleaner than LPG too.

One downside I think is you need heaps of the stuff, so it requires massive tanks, and if it's not going to be everywhere then you need to have a petrol tank as well just in case you run out.

So yeah, that's probably why it isn't used, that and possibly the Governments and Oil company's inability to make a lot of revenue off it...

Not so much about availability...

Buy a drum of petrol and fill your car out of it in you suburban yard.

You will last about 5 minutes before you are arrested and the fire brigade drown your car in foam.

The days are long gone where you could do this. You can't even put petrol in a petrol tin unless it is "approved" and even then are limited to how much you can have at home.

How many explosions a day do you think will be caused by people getting it wrong?

The whole joke about "suburban busses" run on it is beyond silly. They run on the same routes and fuel at the same place every day. Like electric trains, it is a good solution for a tightly controlled environment but not so otherwise.

The "revinue" idea is also flawed. They would just tax it the same as they did for petrol then diesel and coming now LPG.

And before you get all clever with secret illegal home filling, they can monitor your gas usage the same way they monitor electricity usage and will send around the black helicoptors if they suspect you.

How do you think they find all the suburban hydroponic dope farms and drug labs?

max · 08-09-2010, 03:18 PM

Is that what the black helicopters are? Sheez, I better bury my whisky still!!!

Grobbo · 08-09-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Buy a drum of petrol and fill your car out of it in you suburban yard.

You will last about 5 minutes before you are arrested and the fire brigade drown your car in foam.

The days are long gone where you could do this. You can't even put petrol in a petrol tin unless it is "approved" and even then are limited to how much you can have at home.

How many explosions a day do you think will be caused by people getting it wrong?

The whole joke about "suburban busses" run on it is beyond silly. They run on the same routes and fuel at the same place every day. Like electric trains, it is a good solution for a tightly controlled environment but not so otherwise.

The "revinue" idea is also flawed. They would just tax it the same as they did for petrol then diesel and coming now LPG.

And before you get all clever with secret illegal home filling, they can monitor your gas usage the same way they monitor electricity usage and will send around the black helicoptors if they suspect you.

How do you think they find all the suburban hydroponic dope farms and drug labs?

Mmmm yes I'm sure if my home gas usage suddenly jumped, the first thing they would suspect is that I was secretly compressing the stuff and using it to run my car...

PoweredByCNG · 08-09-2010, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

The whole joke about "suburban busses" run on it is beyond silly. They run on the same routes and fuel at the same place every day. Like electric trains, it is a good solution for a tightly controlled environment but not so otherwise.

FYI, urban buses are NOT confined to the same runs on a daily basis. Shifts can vary tremendously in relation to duration, kilometres travelled and the type of running (i.e. start-stop urban, long distance line-haul, anything in between, flat terrain, hilly terrain, etc.).

Quote:

And before you get all clever with secret illegal home filling, they can monitor your gas usage the same way they monitor electricity usage and will send around the black helicoptors if they suspect you.

How is it illegal to fill your car with natural gas at home? It isn't taxed (at present) and compressing stations fitted to one's garage aren't illegal.

My point is that for day-to-day commuting, natural gas in Australia makes perfect sense. The reality is, even with the reduce autonomy of a CNG-fuelled vehicle, you'd barely use a tenth of a tankful on your average daily commute of 30km. If you run low, all you need to do is hook up the filling system at home. No sweat.

Grobbo · 08-09-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

FYI, urban buses are NOT confined to the same runs on a daily basis. Shifts can vary tremendously in relation to duration, kilometres travelled and the type of running (i.e. start-stop urban, long distance line-haul, anything in between, flat terrain, hilly terrain, etc.).

How is it illegal to fill your car with natural gas at home? It isn't taxed (at present) and compressing stations fitted to one's garage aren't illegal.

My point is that for day-to-day commuting, natural gas in Australia makes perfect sense. The reality is, even with the reduce autonomy of a CNG-fuelled vehicle, you'd barely use a tenth of a tankful on your average daily commute of 30km. If you run low, all you need to do is hook up the filling system at home. No sweat.

Well that's it. It's definitely a conspiracy!

I'm gonna get me a converted V8 SUV and a compressor on my front porch and lets see what happens...

flappist · 08-09-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

FYI, urban buses are NOT confined to the same runs on a daily basis. Shifts can vary tremendously in relation to duration, kilometres travelled and the type of running (i.e. start-stop urban, long distance line-haul, anything in between, flat terrain, hilly terrain, etc.).

How is it illegal to fill your car with natural gas at home? It isn't taxed (at present) and compressing stations fitted to one's garage aren't illegal.

My point is that for day-to-day commuting, natural gas in Australia makes perfect sense. The reality is, even with the reduce autonomy of a CNG-fuelled vehicle, you'd barely use a tenth of a tankful on your average daily commute of 30km. If you run low, all you need to do is hook up the filling system at home. No sweat.

You are kidding right?

Oops my mistake, I though you worked in the LPG/Gas industry and were pushing your business but I see from your profile you are a computer tech with a gas fetish.

Of course it is illegal to do ANYTHING with a gas system unless you are a licensed tradesman and the equipment complies with the appropriate local, state and federal laws.

You work in one of the only industries left where you need no qualifications, licenses or experience whatsoever to call yourself a "technician".

The rest of the world is VERY different.

http://www.gtrc.gov.au/

Get one of your friends to teach you about Google.......

saam · 08-09-2010, 02:31 PM

Talking about natural gas , i was in milan about 4 years ago now and the car was running on natural gas. I told the guy it must have been a mistake that it was propane and not natural gas. He showed me the symbol on the car.... Yes it ran natural house gas

Here i am thinking why we never had this in australia.... that was 4 years ago now

I dont think i have seen anyone run on NCG here yet...

PoweredByCNG · 08-09-2010, 02:55 PM

Roughly 50% of Perth's buses run on compressed natural gas. There are thousands of natural gas vehicles in Australia.

NG has very high octane but ignitability of NG is indicated by Methane Number (MN).

Manufacturers of LPG kits in Europe also offer similar CNG kits.

roadrage77 · 08-09-2010, 07:46 PM

You ddeserve an award for finding a cabbie in the U.S who speaks English.