TIG vs MIG - Whats best for a beginner?

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Hi all,

This is going to come across as if I don't know anything about welding, because I don't.

I welded a few times in high school, I passed, I moved on.

I really regret doing this and I wish I kept up with it!

I am going to turbo the AU again, and I will need to get a bit of welding done. I figure this is a good time to learn how to weld! I know I will have older cars that will need patching up in the future, so I want to start small.

I have been looking at TIG and MIG welders on ebay, and there are a few cheap options but im not sure whats the best option for what I require.

I know that whenever welding with car's the battery will need to be disconnected (mate has a special thing he puts on he battery to prevent damage when welding).

What I will need to weld is the following.

- BOV and Catch can fitting to cooler piping
- reinforce holes cut in body work for piping
- reinforce rad support bar for intercooler install.

Basically I want to know which welder would be best?

I will obviously practice over and over before I go near a car, but I just need to know which is best for a beginner.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

[Supersuit]

I am no expert on welding, I have used a arc and a mig welder but never a tig welder.

I would say the mig welder would be the easyer to use but i'm not sure if you can weld stainless or aluminium (turbo piping) with a mig. I have only ever seen a tig welder been used for stainless.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

I didn't think of that.. Thanks Supersuit.

One of the ones I was look at was TIG/MMA/ARC.

As I said I really have no idea, so any advice will help.

[burnz]

anybody can do mig but.
tig is a whole new level, using high frequency start (ark) similar to oxy/aceteline to heat your job
then feed with your welding wire...

if your good with oxy as in the feeding welding wire and have the control of an ark welder,, then your half way there.

[vibe_xr6]

mig is the most easiest to learn from, different welders for different materiel, tig welding is good for stainless steels, nickel alloys, aluminum, magnesium, titanium, cobalt, and copper alloys. Where mig mainly is used for mild steel etc, i can use all welders ( oxy, tig, mig, stick, etc ) but i still prefer mig just as its easier, you can tack something with one hand etc, hope that helps

[vibe_xr6]

you can weld stainless etc with a mig, but you need different wire, different gas mixture, I'd probably want the helium/argon/CO² tri-mix

[falconboy]

I've been researching welders myself as I am in the same boat (actually I DO want it for aluminium boats), and I'm under the impression, particularly those cheap ebay type TIG welders, that they are 'DC' TIG welders and can't be used for aluminium. I'm pretty sure, particularly if you aren't going terribly thick stuff that a MIG (gas, NOT gasless) is going to be more suitable for you.

Do you have a 15amp circuit at home? It keeps your options much more open as you would probably be better buying a used better brand heavier duty MIG than one of the lower prices ebay welders. I just got a 15amp external powerpoint on its own circuit installed for future purchase of one and a decent air compressor.

If you want an ARC welder as well, there are often old, heavy, heavy duty CIG welders going dirt cheap.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

That does help a lot.

I saw a video about using a MIG and it seemed easy enough, but it also looked like he knew what he was doing.

Could you use a MIG welder on car or would it be better to use a TIG?

[vibe_xr6]

again, it matters what metal your welding, if you need a hand, give me a yell mate, but mig man, you just set it up right, make it sound like your cooking something on a BBQ, and watch your weld and slowly move along, TIG on the other hand, you need to make a wirl pool with your tungston tip and dip the wire into the wirl pool as you move along.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Hrmm interesting.

Might be best to try a MIG.

As for the 15 AMP circuit I couldn't tell you falconboy. I will have to check when I get home.

The ones I were looking at are below, but by the sounds of it are too good to be true.

MIG

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ROSSI-NEW-MIG...ht_4279wt_1139

TIG

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ROSSI-MOS-215...ht_4195wt_1139

[falconboy]

Originally Posted by crazy-au

Hrmm interesting.
MIG

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ROSSI-NEW-MIG...ht_4279wt_1139

TIG

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ROSSI-MOS-215...ht_4195wt_1139

For starters, they both require 15amp. Now there are always going to be people who debate cutting the 15amp plug off, putting a 10amp plug on and they will be ok. Most likely they will, but on the other hand, if your wiring overheats and you burn your house down. My argument is that if they were suitable for 10amp they would be a 10amp unit because anyone with an normal powerpoint could buy them.

Secondly, if you google that AGR machinery mob and find the thread on whirlpool about them, you might think twice before buying from them. So in some regard yes, they are probably too good to be true. That TIG is a DC tig so not good for aluminium. Apparently you CAN weld al with a DC tig but its not ideal so probably more for someone with good welding experience.

The MIG itself doesn't look too bad on the surface, but still from the same mob and still a 15mp. Also, you need to wonder how good parts and service will be when about the only people I could find selling the Rossi brand is in fact that ebay seller.

The other thing to look at when looking at a welder is the Duty Cycle. Basically its the amount of time in 10 min you can use it non stop before you have to let it cool. A 20% duty cycle is 2 min in a 10 min period etc etc. The lower the amps you run it at (probably fairly low for what you want to do) the better the duty cycle, but its something you need to consider. I saw one that looked great until I saw the duty cycle at its lowest amps was 10% which sounds practically unusable at higher amps.

My research has indicated that if you want a good, usable, decent welder and/or air compressor you ideally need to spend more $$$ than you and I want to, and are often 15amp outfits. I think especially for those like you and me who are still learning how to use it all, we need the goods that actually are more likely to do the job without too much hassle and experience required. That's the bad news. The good news is if you work out what you need, there are some ok deals second hand on ebay.

[schnoods]

Go with the Mig.

For the price and the versatility and ease, it would seem a no brainer for a beginner to a home handyman spec person. A beginner on a tig will get a few jolts from touching the filler wire onto the tungsten.

Try an budget for a mig that isnt just gasless, the gasless migs arent bad but the gasless wire is false economy and the spatter it leaves is horrendous for anything that wont be hidden. Some solid wire with Migshield or argo shield gas will be good enough for most jobs. Stainless wire for stainless will be required, generally a 316L will cover most stainless jobs.

If you decide to go on the tig route, any stick welder with a tig attachment will suffice if you are sticking to mild steel and stainless. Its a matter of reversing the poles (handpiece becomes -, earth is +) and setting amps to suit, rule of thumb is generally 20 -30 amps per mm (i use around 70 amps for 3mm) but it can vary for position and finish. It will also have no high frequency so it will be scratch start early, but the upside is the whole shebang may save $500+ between a dedicated unit.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by falconboy

For starters, they both require 15amp. Now there are always going to be people who debate cutting the 15amp plug off, putting a 10amp plug on and they will be ok. Most likely they will, but on the other hand, if your wiring overheats and you burn your house down. My argument is that if they were suitable for 10amp they would be a 10amp unit because anyone with an normal powerpoint could buy them.
.

If you plug a 15 amp welder into a 10 amp socket the worst you can do is trip the board. As soon as you go to 11 amps the board will trip to protect the circuit. There is no more chance of burning the house down with a cut down 15 amp socket than a dodgy old toaster.

I am reasonably handy with a welder. When making up parts for cars TIG is the easiest. Generally intake tubing and panels are very light gauge and when using TIG you get a very small and acurate pool forming. You also do not get the spatter associated with a MIG. With TIG you have almost nil surface prep and do not even have to grind the weld when you are done (unless working on panels). TIG works on all copper alloys, stainless steel, steel, (and aluminium when it is a high frequency unit) and only requires the use of 1 type of gas (argon).

[cs123]

Originally Posted by irish2

If you plug a 15 amp welder into a 10 amp socket the worst you can do is trip the board. As soon as you go to 11 amps the board will trip to protect the circuit. There is no more chance of burning the house down with a cut down 15 amp socket than a dodgy old toaster.

Not the best advice

[irish2]

Originally Posted by cs123

Not the best advice

But achieved every day on construction sites throughout Australia.

[vibe_xr6]

i went into repco at the homebase the other day, they have a mig there for $300 mate

[pb02]

Go with a mig and go with a decent unit. Try to stay away from gasless mig wire as you don't get the best welds.
Mig will do everything you want, you will have to dress the welds after but it is more the suitable.
Tig will give you a brilliant result, but it's very difficult to master and get right. I've done courses on Tig welding and done a bit of Stainless welding and a little aluminium, but if I want a great job I'll get a mate whose a boilermaker to do it.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

S&!t hey I didn't know you were in Wagga mate.

I will head there after work and see if its there.

Thanks you for your help mate. If I get stuck I know who to ask for help then!

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Seems MIG is the way to go for a learner.

Thank everyone.

[vibe_xr6]

no problems mate, yeah it was on a table just infront of you as you walked in, just ask about them, and talk to kirk, he loves selling things for a heaps good price !!!
I used to own that red au xr6, series 1 with the te50 spoiler, you might remember me by that way

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Hrmm if its the one I remember getting around it used to go alright too. I don't think my old girl kept up!

Small world. Everyone knows someone, lives in or has been to Wagga!

[vibe_xr6]

hahaha i think your talking about vincent road? hahaha lol i remember, yeah she used to go great, i would have kept her, but i loved BA's to much. She was good enough to flog a new VE SV6 you might remember that too, the purple one badged as a SS etc lol, hope your welding goes good mate, give me a yell if you need a hand.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

I don't really remember Vincent road but I think i remember your car lol.

Thanks mate. I will give it a go and if I break something I will let you know!

[vibe_xr6]

there might have been another time lol, i cant really remember neither, yeah just give me a yell if you need a hand mate

[GTP owner]

I taught myself how to TIG weld because I was making a chome-moly cage, which can only be welded with a TIG. It was not that hard to do after arc welding. Mig is the easiest, but surface prep is vitally important. I would go MIG if you are unsure.

Also TIG for aluminium needs the costlier units which can do DC and AC. All TIG units can arc weld, but why would you bother? Finally, if you TIG alumiuniumk, it is ultra difficult to learn. Better using MIG

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Thank you all for the reply's.

There seems to be a hell of a lot more to this then I first expected.

Are there any example of what would be a decent budget MIG for someone like myself?

[schnoods]

Apparently you CAN weld al with a DC tig but its not ideal so probably more for someone with good welding experience.

Nope. It requires AC, as it switches from DC+ to DC- it does 2 things, it helps with the cleaning (oxidation) and it balances the heat beween the tungsten and workpiece. DC- is just to strong and focused to use on aluminium, it will melt without having any time to work with it.

Are there any example of what would be a decent budget MIG for someone like myself?

keep an eye on ebay, having a look myslef just then, there isnt much in the middle range. Basiclly look for a for a gas/gasless, around the 150-180 amp range with a 15 amp plug (i have a 15-10 amp adapter which works fine), handpiece (preferrably Binzel connector), some spools of wire and a gas bottle regulator (which can save you $100). I bought my package for around $380 being a no name brand, a cig one in the same specs is double that.

[66FAIRLANE]

Horses for courses. If you want to do a lot of neat looking aluminium stuff then get a TIG and learn how to use it. If you want to do mainly thin mild steel or rougher aluminium or stainless (ie boat) then get a mig and learn how to use it. If you want to do medium to thick mild or stainless steel buy a stick and learn how to use it.

Easy really

[vibe_xr6]

if you need a 15 amp socket put in, give me a yell, i can organise one for a carton mate

[EFFalcon]

buy a mig to start with, then get a TIG later.
both have their benefits.