How fast was a Phase 4 GT?

[Windsor220]

Just had the Aussie Muscle Car Masters on in the background and they were telling the story about the GTHO Falcons and how the phase 4 was banned. We have always heard about the famous number 4 but exactly how fast was it?

Do people have any acceleration or top speed figures? One thing I was always curious about.

[STINKY NINJA]

Didnt it have around 10,20 hp more than a phase 3 ho?
Ill have a stab and say it would have run a low 14 quarter mile,around a tenth quicker than a ph 3 ho which to the best of my knowledge ran 14.4 or thereabouts.

[henry 351]

Well, working on a 3:1 diff providing 40kmh per 1000rpm in top gear, 6500rpm would be 260kph, 6750rpm would be 270kph. My mail from someone who was there in the day said that was seen in testing.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by henry 351

Well, working on a 3:1 diff providing 40kmh per 1000rpm in top gear, 6500rpm would be 260kph, 6750rpm would be 270kph. My mail from someone who was there in the day said that was seen in testing.

Surely once you reach 200km/h wind resistance will limit the top speed rather than gearing, so technically yes its geared to do 270km/h, but if it can do it or not is another story.

Plus what would one of those things be like driving at over 200km/h?

[Windsor220]

Ok so it was built more for top speed then. Looks like 260km/h would be about accurate which isn't bad even compared to today. Guess we will never know if it pulled a quicker quarter mile time than a phase 3.

[minheim]

I think I have the answer re how fast. I was looking through my copies of Australian Muscle Car and there is a special feature on the Phase 4. In the article David Bowden notes that when he first got the Moffat race car he "regularly got the car up to 7200rpm in top, which translates to about 170mph (280 km/h)." He used to run it on a deserted strip of road that ran straight for three miles just vefore the turnoff to his place at Black river (15 miles from Townsville).
DB also noted that he also owned a very hot Phase 3 which could run a 12 second pass on the drag strip and that he raced the phase 4 against it once. He noted that with its tall gearing the Pase 4 started slowly but really started moving in third gear. As he passed his mate in the Phase 3 the mate's car started banging and back fiting. He thought the phase 3 had blown an engine but noticed the Phase 3 was still following. When they stopped they compared notes and realised what had happened. The phase 3had been hitting the rev limiter in top gear whereas the limiter had been removed in the phase 4. To quor DB - "in other words the Phase 4 was faster in 3rd gear than a hot Phase 3 in top gear".

I also found an article on Wild Violet, the John French Car, It had the top speed on conrod in 71 and 72 at 154mph. (246Km/H)

[davez104]

Originally Posted by minheim

The phase 3had been hitting the rev limiter in top gear whereas the limiter had been removed in the phase 4. To quor DB - "in other words the Phase 4 was faster in 3rd gear than a hot Phase 3 in top gear".

If that's the case the XY would have had a diff ratio more suited to the strip, there wouldn't be that much difference if they were both in race spec.

[paule11]

Originally Posted by minheim

I think I have the answer re how fast. I was looking through my copies of Australian Muscle Car and there is a special feature on the Phase 4. In the article David Bowden notes that when he first got the Moffat race car he "regularly got the car up to 7200rpm in top, which translates to about 170mph (280 km/h)." He used to run it on a deserted strip of road that ran straight for three miles just vefore the turnoff to his place at Black river (15 miles from Townsville).
DB also noted that he also owned a very hot Phase 3 which could run a 12 second pass on the drag strip and that he raced the phase 4 against it once. He noted that with its tall gearing the Pase 4 started slowly but really started moving in third gear. As he passed his mate in the Phase 3 the mate's car started banging and back fiting. He thought the phase 3 had blown an engine but noticed the Phase 3 was still following. When they stopped they compared notes and realised what had happened. The phase 3had been hitting the rev limiter in top gear whereas the limiter had been removed in the phase 4. To quor DB - "in other words the Phase 4 was faster in 3rd gear than a hot Phase 3 in top gear".

I also found an article on Wild Violet, the John French Car, It had the top speed on conrod in 71 and 72 at 154mph. (246Km/H)

This rings a bell have read a bit over the years about all the great cars David Bowden has owned

[gtfpv]

THIS IS BEST I CAN COME UP WITH . SLOW DOWN LOW , BUT FAST UP HIGH . IT MAY POSSIBLY be slower down the 1/4 than a ph 3 who knows .
this though tells a little
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYKvPWINwxA

[minheim]

From memory I think the John French Phase 3 had the top speed record down conrod at about 156 mph. (seem to recall seeing an ad selling the Bryan Burt Falcon in my youth that cited this). The Phase 4 should have been faster as it had better aero but I guess we will never know what it was capable of in race trim and being pushed to the limit.

[mik]

a little bit faster than the phase 3, iirc 151 mph with the limiter, 161 mph limter removed and probably a bit faster in race trim.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Just had the Aussie Muscle Car Masters on in the background and they were telling the story about the GTHO Falcons and how the phase 4 was banned. We have always heard about the famous number 4 but exactly how fast was it?

Do people have any acceleration or top speed figures? One thing I was always curious about.

240kmh, downhill, tailwind and on a really good day

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by RASER

240kmh, downhill, tailwind and on a really good day

Love the ford haters on this forum.......

160mph with the right gearing

As per the phase 3s, there would have been a few diff gears available to order

[CAMS290]

Lets pick a number out of a hat like some on here are doing, would doubt very much if it would pull 7200rpm in top with a 3 to 1 diff on a flat bit of road.

Maybe down conrod with a tailwind.

I have had some pretty fast cars over the years, and the laws of physics are working against you trying to push them to those speeds.

[Chilliman]

Phase IV Stats that I pulled out of my bum:

Top Speed: 160mph (258km/hr)
Quarter Mile: 13.8 Seconds (dependant on final drive)

The Phase V which was to be based on the coupe would have been slower over the quarter mile (due to the added weight of the coupe) but aerodynamics would have see a higher top speed (approaching 270km/hr?)

[minheim]

I'm just quoting what an owner is quoted as saying in a reputable publication. The same article interviews Bill Santuccione who was involved in GTHO engine development. He was part of the mini engine assembly line at Ford producing "series production" engines. He states he used to effectively drive a test hack which was an XA GT sedan bought up to Phase 4specs from all sorts of developement work being done. He states he recalls on a few occassions on the Geelong Highway with the rev cut out disconnected that he had the car up around 7000rpm in top gear (with 3.0:1 axle ration) and so he considers the David Bowden figures would be pretty close. Her says that you could hit the rev limiter in top gear pretty easily and with it disconnected go well beyond that. He says the Phase 4 engine certainly had legs at the top end and that acceleration and the mid to top-end power with the bigger exhaust system just went on and on.

[RASER]

It was never a production car, so by default its null and void

[Neale]

Originally Posted by RASER

It was never a production car, so by default its null and void

They made 4 of them (three race cars & one road car), just because they never went into full production doesnt mean that they dont have performance stats. Just like F1's arent production cars but they still have performance stats.


According to folklore the XA GT with the RPO 83 option were the phase 4 but with a name change to fly under the radar. After all, ford had a heap of parts left over that had to be used somewhere.

Here is another snippet of the cars performance in race trim - http://www.bowdensown.com.au/car-spe...nd-history/102

"He took it on a number of long distance trips and found that it was a magnificently balanced piece of gear on the open road as well as through the twisty stuff. Its only short coming was driving around town, where the combination of a tall diff ratio, (3.00:1) close ratio gearbox and race spec engine made it almost undrivable. And how fast was it on those long country roads? Without giving too much damning evidence, both Keith and David Bowden agreed with Ford Special Vehicles foreman John Wynne, in that the race version was capable of an easy 175 MPH"

Heres a "Wheels" Road Test on the GT RPO 83 that will give some insight into what could have been.

http://www.falcongt.com.au/XARPO83WheelsTest.html

[henry 351]

Originally Posted by RASER

It was never a production car, so by default its null and void

With all due respect and from my point of view, if a car has a compliance plate, then it is a production car. It was built and sold road registrable. It was the intent of Ford to mass produce the Phase 4, but we all know the bureaucrats bought that to an end. We lament that Ford didn't get to build 500 or 1000, but we all know that the one legend is alive and well.

[351hardtop]

Originally Posted by RASER

It was never a production car, so by default its null and void

Doesn't matter if it was a full production car or not. The car exists, the OPs question was valid as Phase IV was fully pepared for and one road car was manufactured. Or didn't you know that.

[Revolver]

Well I read in Australian muscle car quite a few years ago of David Bowden lining up the 4 vs the 3 on a quiet piece of road near his house not long after he got it. The 3 hit the limiter & the 4 kept accelerating beyond that. I can't remember it word for word, but that was what I remember.

[mik]

i think it was said the XA was also a bit better at slipping through the air than the boxy XY.
edit: i`m pretty sure it was sports car world that did a year book with a good write up on the phase 4 if any one has it in their library , i did have it but lent it to someone.......say no more.

[Bossxr8]

The only real difference between the Ph3 and Ph4 engine was the hand machined combustion chambers in the Ph4. It was the much improved aero of the XA that provided the big improvement in top speed.

[Donny]

The headline of the day that killed em was 160MPH Supercars Soon..
The rev limiters in a phase 4 are easily removed, its in the rotor button, so replace that and no limiter.

[bionic2006xr6t]

Originally Posted by Donny

The headline of the day that killed em was 160MPH Supercars Soon..
The rev limiters in a phase 4 are easily removed, its in the rotor button, so replace that and no limiter.

That's correct if you read the extensive article they did in street fords where they interviewed the head mechanics at Jack Brabhem ford at the time (Paul Bianco) he stated that the first thing they did before putting the sole production car on the dyno (they dyno tuned all there GT-HO's before delivery) was pop the hood, pull off the dissy cap and toss the original rotor button in the bin replacing it with a standard XA GT item.

Cheers Ryan

[mickbundy]

The only rev limiter in a GT falcon in the 70's was a leather boot

[2011G6E]

....slower than your grandmas new Toyota Aurion most likely ...certainly slower than any of the FPV turbo 6 cylinders you see sitting around the car lots these days bought by mum and dad as an easy to use family car...

"Supercars" were amazingly pitiful compared to most new stuff. It's shocking to read some of the power outputs and acceleration times that were shouted from the rooftops back then.

However, it's all relative. Keep in mind above I said "compared to new stuff". In the early to mid seventies, common foreign family cars like Corollas and Datsuns were putting out about 60kw if they were lucky. The family Kingy or Falcon was struggling to put out up to 100kw. Standard V8's were slugs as well putting out little more than 110 to maybe 120kw. Hell, even the 351 in it's final form in the Fairmont ESP Ghia was only making 126kw.
In those days, anything putting out up near 170 to 200 kw was seen as nothing less than miraculous.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

....slower than your grandmas new Toyota Aurion most likely ...certainly slower than any of the FPV turbo 6 cylinders you see sitting around the car lots these days bought by mum and dad as an easy to use family car...

"Supercars" were amazingly pitiful compared to most new stuff. It's shocking to read some of the power outputs and acceleration times that were shouted from the rooftops back then.

However, it's all relative. Keep in mind above I said "compared to new stuff". In the early to mid seventies, common foreign family cars like Corollas and Datsuns were putting out about 60kw if they were lucky. The family Kingy or Falcon was struggling to put out up to 100kw. Standard V8's were slugs as well putting out little more than 110 to maybe 120kw. Hell, even the 351 in it's final form in the Fairmont ESP Ghia was only making 126kw.
In those days, anything putting out up near 170 to 200 kw was seen as nothing less than miraculous.

what is relative is you continually harp on in threads like this with nothing more than anecdotal dribble.... try bringing some real world classic GT ownership experience to the table..

you cant.. null and void bucko..

[burnz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

....slower than your grandmas new Toyota Aurion most likely ...certainly slower than any of the FPV turbo 6 cylinders you see sitting around the car lots these days bought by mum and dad as an easy to use family car...

"Supercars" were amazingly pitiful compared to most new stuff. It's shocking to read some of the power outputs and acceleration times that were shouted from the rooftops back then.

However, it's all relative. Keep in mind above I said "compared to new stuff". In the early to mid seventies, common foreign family cars like Corollas and Datsuns were putting out about 60kw if they were lucky. The family Kingy or Falcon was struggling to put out up to 100kw. Standard V8's were slugs as well putting out little more than 110 to maybe 120kw. Hell, even the 351 in it's final form in the Fairmont ESP Ghia was only making 126kw.
In those days, anything putting out up near 170 to 200 kw was seen as nothing less than miraculous.

power to weight is what you should consider!

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

....slower than your grandmas new Toyota Aurion most likely ...certainly slower than any of the FPV turbo 6 cylinders you see sitting around the car lots these days bought by mum and dad as an easy to use family car...

"Supercars" were amazingly pitiful compared to most new stuff.

I love it when people compare a 40 yo car to a modern car.

Having said that, I seriously doubt that grandma's Aurion would beat it.

Do you know much about the cars of that era? the post above has more holes than a block of Swiss cheese

Mid 14 second quarter miles straight off the factory floor are from pitiful.