A ‘large’ Territory-based SUV?

Road_Warrior · 13-03-2013, 01:29 PM

Following a discussion about the new Ranger-based SUV and the Territory, I came to think whether or not there is a case for an SUV larger than the Territory in the lineup. Some say the Ranger SUV would rob the Terri of sales and vice versa, but if you look at what Toyota have, they have the SUV market completely cornered. Consequently, individual model volume matters less than overall dominance of the SUV category – which surprise surprise, is the dominant segment in Australia’s new car market.

Toyota have the 200 series Landcruiser, Nissan have the Patrol, then there is the new Range Rover, etc. Whilst Ford in the US have the Expedition(?) based on the F series, its not available in RHD and maybe that bit *too big* for our roads.

So instead of looking at a LARGE Yank body-on-frame SUV based on a commercial vehicle, could FoA utilise an existing platform to develop a new model? I’m thinking of a larger SUV based on the Territory’s platform with a larger diesel engine to suit, a true 7 seater, that maybe the mines could or would use as an alternative to the Landcruisers (esp the 76 series).

Before anyone says “it wouldn’t be worth it”, look at the sales figures from December 2012:

SUV Large Segment Winners:

1. Toyota Prado (1,313 – 16.1%)
2. Ford Territory (1,199 – 14.7%)
3. Holden Captiva 7 (944 – 11.6%)

SUV Upper Large Segment Winners:

1. Toyota Landcruiser Wagon (905 – 80.9%)
2. Nissan Patrol Wagon (213 – 19.1%

Now, I assume the figures for the Landcruiser Wagon includes the 200 series as well as 76 series. As you can see, the sales aren't that far off the Territory. And that 80.9% of the share of that segment the Landcruiser has is just begging for more competition.

I guess the whole point to the idea is leveraging a new model off an existing FoA platform that is already a proven performer to give Ford both an added feather to its cap (ie more vehicles being made, more people in work) as well as another segment to compete in. Using a platform that has been already developed means costs are much less.

aquahead2001 · 13-03-2013, 04:07 PM

I promise I wont say it! But I think you're not getting the entire picture in your argument. Of the vehicles you have used in your post, all but one are sold in multiple countries and in numbers that add up to a reasonable production run. Only the Territory is limited to basically Australia, the sales to NZ and Thailand being just a dribble at best.

So using the Landcruiser for an example, (could only find data to 2006, so this will be out a bit) world wide, there were approx 94,000 sold worldwide and 171,000 Prodo's sold worldwide. They are lovely numbers for a manufacturer! Ford get no where near those figures for the Territory...

The Territory is also a bit of an orphan, it's using a platform that will not survive much longer unfortunately. I think Ford will follow Toyota's lead and try and leverage the lowest cost base platform, which will be thr Ranger platform and in the lowest cost location it can find as well.

FalconXV · 13-03-2013, 05:15 PM

Well if Ford US makes a successor to the Expedition, EL on the F-150's ladder frame, it could potentially fill that void.
One Ford, if it was going to be sold in other markets, it would be a diesel only affair - 3.2 L, 4.4 Lion V8, and a PHEV 3.2L.

FPV GTHO · 13-03-2013, 05:25 PM

I think a bigger Explorer would be a better bet.

Fill the gap by making Edge slightly larger

**Dave R** · 13-03-2013, 07:08 PM

So this thread is about taking on the landcruiser with a large soft roader? If Ford wants to properly challenge the Landcruiser, it will take at least billion dollars and 3-5 years. It will not be based on a soft roader, the Landcruiser's appeal is that it goes anywhere. I've driven a 200 series quite a few times, it is nothing like a Territory and anything Territory based won't appeal to the person who spends $100k on a 'Cruiser.

Nikked · 13-03-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

So this thread is about taking on the landcruiser with a large soft roader? If Ford wants to properly challenge the Landcruiser, it will take at least billion dollars and 3-5 years. It will not be based on a soft roader, the Landcruiser's appeal is that it goes anywhere. I've driven a 200 series quite a few times, it is nothing like a Territory and anything Territory based won't appeal to the person who spends $100k on a 'Cruiser.

But some cruisers that i see are just blingy soccer mum/family rigs, or towing boats or caravans to a holiday spot.

Ben73 · 13-03-2013, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

But some cruisers that i see are just blingy soccer mum/family rigs, or towing boats or caravans to a holiday spot.

In another 10-15 years I'm sure we will start to see more 200 series Land Cruisers touring some tough tracks and sand dunes. Most people who fork out 100K for a car don't want to risk damaging it too much. Give it time.

FPV GTHO · 13-03-2013, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

In another 10-15 years I'm sure we will start to see more 200 series Land Cruisers touring some tough tracks and sand dunes. Most people who fork out 100K for a car don't want to risk damaging it too much. Give it time.

I think the 200, and the new Patrol for that matter, have outgrown themselves. The serious offroading market seems to get a better product out of Prado and 70 series wagon.

Nikked · 13-03-2013, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I think the 200, and the new Patrol for that matter, have outgrown themselves. The serious offroading market seems to get a better product out of Prado and 70 series wagon.

Hilux seems popluar aswell...

Outbackjack · 13-03-2013, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

So this thread is about taking on the landcruiser with a large soft roader? If Ford wants to properly challenge the Landcruiser, it will take at least billion dollars and 3-5 years. It will not be based on a soft roader, the Landcruiser's appeal is that it goes anywhere. I've driven a 200 series quite a few times, it is nothing like a Territory and anything Territory based won't appeal to the person who spends $100k on a 'Cruiser.

You wont see too many 200 series where a proper 4X4 is needed. All working 4X4's up here are either 75 series or Patrols... 200 series are Toorak tractors at best. As is the new V8 patrol...

Nikked · 13-03-2013, 10:07 PM

Just a quick/rough chop...

Road_Warrior · 13-03-2013, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Just a quick/rough chop...

image

That's what I'm talking about. No harm in imagining what an alternative to an LC might be.

As for serious off roading, I wonder how many "serious off roaders" can actually get by with a properly sorted AWD system?

FPV GTHO · 13-03-2013, 10:22 PM

Hilux always has, but it lacks the grunt and space of a LandCruiser type vehicle.

Nikked · 13-03-2013, 10:33 PM

Could the territory's AWD system be fitted with a Hi/lo, and perhaps a option for locking the center diff etc?

Sorta like a Full time 4WD set up...

Terror_Tree · 14-03-2013, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Could the territory's AWD system be fitted with a Hi/lo, and perhaps a option for locking the center diff etc?

Sorta like a Full time 4WD set up...

Would also need better ground clearance.

lamborghinifan · 14-03-2013, 05:51 PM

Large SUV based on a Soft SUV based on a Sedan, a bit of stretch I think. It's already hard enough keeping all the car parts servicable on a 2Ton SUV.

TC200six · 13-03-2013, 10:41 PM

Ford already have an SUV of the older Ranger sold in the Asia-pacific region, not sure about the new one

http://www.asiapacific.ford.com/serv...per&site=FEGAP

FPV GTHO · 13-03-2013, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC200six

Ford already have an SUV of the older Ranger sold in the Asia-pacific region, not sure about the new one

http://www.asiapacific.ford.com/serv...per&site=FEGAP

image

That ^^ is specifically what the T6 SUV will be replacing.