DPF and Powershift - Mondeo deal breakers?

[Mighty_Liam]

Hi guys,

The family is getting bigger so I'm looking to upgrade into a midsize wagon, with the Mondeo being my first pick. We had the opportunity to live in Europe for almost 5 years recently, so I can appreciate European build quality but also the quality of their diesel technology. So I am really keen to get into a tdci, also had a drive of the 2.3lt petrol and found it a little underwhelming, so we are talking MB or MC Zetec tdci wagon. However, the thing is that we live in the suburbs where 90% of our driving with be short trips at around 15min length or under.

I've been reading around the forums and figured out the sticking points, and my decision on a Mondeo really hinges on 2 questions:

1) How serious is the DPF issue with "city" driving? Outer suburbs is probably more consistent with combined mileage than pure city, but is a 25min drive at 80km once a week enough to keep the DPF operating normally? Should I really look to a petrol?

2) I'm aware the wet Powershift in the Mondeo has less issues, but i see many ppl taking out the extended factory warranty to cover themselves or sticking to an MA/MB. We are planning to keep the car beyond any extended warranty period, is the Powershift that big a risk? Do I choose a late plated MB?

Hoping that you experiened Mondeo owners and drivers out there can help get me to the right decision, any tips or opinions welcome! Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

[VF69HARDTOP]

I know two Ford mechanics and they both told me to avoid the Powershift, so I bout a very late MB Zebec TDCI with sports shift auto.

I haven't heard any bad news on the Mondeo's DPF, they are more trouble free than the Mazda DPF's as an example.

[csv8]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/321473/f...ssion-shudder/ I hope they extend the warranty on Mondeo too.

[Top_Ghia]

The diesels wet powershift box is fine. The focus/Fiesta box has some issues. But the diesel Mondeo is fine. I believe it requires an oil change every 60,000km.
Dpf problems do occur but seem pretty rare. But they can be costly.
Is new out of your budget? The new model in 2.0 turbo 4 petrol would be good.

[cyclone1410]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

The diesels wet powershift box is fine. The focus/Fiesta box has some issues. But the diesel Mondeo is fine. I believe it requires an oil change every 60,000km.
Dpf problems do occur but seem pretty rare. But they can be costly.
Is new out of your budget? The new model in 2.0 turbo 4 petrol would be good.

My private mechanic who has many decades of experience with European cars says the wet Powershift is fine. The dry ones in the Focus, et al are a problem however even the later versions of those appear to have solved the major issues anyway. The only real issue with the Powershift in the Mondeo is the slight hesitation from rest. Love our Mondeo!!!

[Orchydon]

Have 2011 Mondeo tdci wagon and so far no problems with transmission after 80,000 plus Kms. Service costs are expensive when the transmission oil is changed though - every 60,000kms. Other wise extremely pleased with it.

[Mighty_Liam]

New is totally out of the budget I'm afraid, I'm trying to stick to 20k. AFAIK, the new wagon still only comes in TDCi, so doesn't solve my dilemas there, but the rest of the specs would be great - about time they put a screen and nav in, its 2015 for petes sakes!

An MB is not a bad way to go, but finding a good low km version will be the challenge, and with baby arriving in 3 months time is not on my side ;)

[Binny]

Sure there is an element of risk but not as much as some people make it out to be.
As people have said the wet clutch powershift doesn't suffer the same issues as the dry clutch one in focus and fiesta. There are a few cases of people in here who have had some sort of problem them though so they are not perfect, nor is any other brand. We had a work i30 lunch its transmission with 40k on the clock. These things happen sometimes to any brand.
An upside is that Mondeos are great value second hand because people see it has a powershift and steer clear due to all the issues they have heard about.
Yes I bought the extended warranty mainly due to what I had heard about powershifts at the time. Now I know more I don't know if I needed to. Time will tell I guess.

I've owned many Toyotas over the years and I was tossing up whether to take the "safe" option and get another one. Whenever I'm driving the Mondeo on a nice road I think to myself that I'm glad I bought it. Its such a nice car to drive. A TDCI wagon would be hard to beat as a family car. Even the liftback is so roomy and practical.

[Mighty_Liam]

Thanks guys. Been doing some more reading and think I'm pretty comfortable with the DPF scenario and will stick with the diesel.
I'm encouraged by what has been said about the Powershift and I'm inclined to give them a go, but I haven't actually driven an MC yet, so the first thing to do would be to actually get out and see what it drives like in the real world and if I like it or not.

[VF69HARDTOP]

I drove a lte MB with the powershift to compare with the non powershift MB and I didn't like the shift style of the powershift. This is more than likely a personal opinion though.

I still stuck with what my two Ford mechanic mates advised also.

[esppwr]

I've got a 2014 mc tdci wagon company car and it's woeful. Throttle response is non existant, it needed to be towed back to the dealer at 14000 k. I give it a hard time but nothing a falcon or commodore couldn't handle.

The Power **** box is simply confused. The fuel economy ain't that great (7.2 l/100km) and the risk of major $$$ repairs being required outside warranty is high. Just look at how poor resale value is.

I think my fleet manager at work is on ice to switch to the mondeo from the commodore wagon.

[mik]

any ideas on the cost of the tranny service every 60,000 k`s ?

[Top_Ghia]

It's included in the capped price service. You can check the prices online.

[cyclone1410]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

It's included in the capped price service. You can check the prices online.

For diesel it is about $795 and for a turbo petrol it is about $845. These are dealer services so you might do better with the independents.

[mik]

Thanks mate.

[Binny]

I think from memory the invoice for my 60k service charged about $200 for the synthetic transmission fluid. There was a lot of it, about 8L I think.
And yes it was part of the capped price service $780.

[Mighty_Liam]

I've test driven a couple of tdci's now and would agree that the throttle response from stop is not great. My wife will be the main driver of the car so it doesn't bother me that much , but I also remember reading somewhere on here there are a couple of tricks that bring improvements, as well as the potential for an ECU tuneup down the track.

[esppwr]

Your wife's driving the car so throttle response is just as important if not more so especially if little ones are in the car as well. Try turning right onto a main road or changing from a lane of stopped traffic into a moving lane. It's sooo dangerous in a car that does not give a consistent throttle response.

[cobrin]

Originally Posted by esppwr

Your wife's driving the car so throttle response is just as important if not more so especially if little ones are in the car as well.

Really comes down to better choices of gaps and when to go. If it's getting as Dangerous as some are saying then you're choosing the wrong gap to go. It's just a mindset change.

Having said that I can understand, these days people driving faster and closer opportunities are slim sometimes. I've kept my foot on the brake and with my right foot free slightly loaded up the trans and released the brake to holeshot it. Nothing excessive, but I'm not waiting on lag either.

[whitelion65]

Agree with Cobrin,
you can remove indecision from the system.
Steve

[mik]

Originally Posted by whitelion65

Agree with Cobrin,
you can remove indecision from the system.
Steve

you really should not have to though.

[rondeo]

Ideally we would be carried around by a self driving robot. I'm waiting for it.
IMHO the Mondeo diesel particulate filter shouldn't be a problem, unless you are doing less than 10 or 15 km on your daily trip. (very complicated subject)
The main problem seems to me is that Ford (whoever that may be) aren't telling, or don't know, or both.

[rondeo]

The DPF is a filter which traps soot. By googling I see that about 200 grams of soot might be collected in the DPF per 1000km. This amount is more than the system cope with and has to be 'burned off' periodically by "active regeneration' at 600 deg C, done automatically and more or less transparently by injecting diesel fuel into the exhaust system prior to the dpf. So one problem might be constant short trips, where regeneration fails because things aren't hot enough. . . Ford, tell us more...

[Binny]

I agree. It's all about anticipating what you are going to do.
If you tell the car you are about to go by easing off the brake pressure a couple of seconds beforehand it will be ready to go. (In the same way that an idle stop/start system restarts when you ease off brake pressure).

It's like how in a manual car you start to let out the clutch to the friction point as you see a gap coming up. Then you are ready to take off quickly when the gap arrives.

I certainly have not experienced any situations I would call dangerous and my wife doesn't have any issues with it either.

Its the safest car I have ever had. I'm far more comfortable having my kiddies in the back of it than in the falcon wagon we used to have.

[rondeo]

The speed limit on roundabouts is 40km/h, if you are having timing problems with the acceleration lag, then maybe choose another car, because everybody else is speeding. Personally I'm happy to wait for a decent break in the traffic and very happy with the two MC diesels in our family. The only unfortunate thing is we have to have a car at all, and some people seem to be in a big hurry. I'm happy with my powershift, I spend half as much time at the bowser as I did with the Falcon.

As for the DPF, has anyone ever had to switch the ventilation to internal because of black smoke coming from the guy in front? If you do a lot of slow city driving maybe a petrol engine is going to make you happier, at the cost of 30% more fuel. I noticed my first DFP regeneration the other day and it was awesome! ;) That's after117000km. It really depends on your km needs and attitude.

Every DPF regeneration leaves ash, otherwise it would last forever, the best conditions for the DPF are high temperatures. On a cold morning it takes maybe 10km to reach 'normal' on the temp gauge.
That's fine for me because there's another 20km to go.
Horses for courses?

[cobrin]

Originally Posted by rondeo

As for the DPF, has anyone ever had to switch the ventilation to internal because of black smoke coming from the guy in front?

Yes all the time Land Cruisers Patrols Navara's old Hilux's amongst the worst I see in my area.

[SkidMarks]

I have about 130K on my MC Zetec wagon and to be honest yes the DPF, high pressure deisel pump and DSG gearbox have caused me slight concern for the last 100K but never had a ahiccup.
Love my Mondeo and if you want a car that stops...whenever I have someone in the car and I show them its braking power they are gobsmacked.

[Mighty_Liam]

Well, after a month long search we finally put down a deposit yesterday on a 2011 Zetec tdci wagon with 63000ks. The process dragged out a bit due to good Zetecs being a little thin on the ground, but also because I was careful in my inspections and not willing to touch anything with questionable gearbox behaviour. Having said that, I think we have found a good example and we are stoked to be stepping into our new Mondeo at the end of the week!

[Binny]

Congrats mate. A zetec wagon will make a mighty fine family car.

[cobrin]

welcome to the club !