Why do cammed ls motors sound and go better?

[Sa45]

Hi guys,
Just out of interest the title pretty much sums it all up i have always wondered why the LS motor sounds tougher once a cam gets dropped in and goes harder than the Boss motors?

[ratter]

kw vs kw they do not go better, performance they may go better due to the car being lighter

[mik]

The troll is strong with this one !!!

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Sa45

Hi guys,
Just out of interest the title pretty much sums it all up i have always wondered why the LS motor sounds tougher once a cam gets dropped in and goes harder than the Boss motors?

I don't think it does

[Parfrey]

A mate of a mate just picked up a VF SS... it has a cam(afm delete crap too?)/air intake/full exhaust/tune = 295rwkw and would have cost a fair chunk of cash.

Easily achievable with the right mods on a FPV/FG boss motor...

[Wretched]

Not sure about the performance but I do like the sound of the LS motor in the E series HSVs. Very low bass sound a real full sound.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by Sa45

Hi guys,
Just out of interest the title pretty much sums it all up i have always wondered why the LS motor sounds tougher once a cam gets dropped in and goes harder than the Boss motors?

Well! Sa45. I have had few runs up against these so called tough cammed LS motors. And guess what? There not that tough or that quick. The only thing that LS makes is lots of noise. That's it.

As the saying goes " HSV! I just ate one!"

[HULK_I6T]

They do sound tough when cammed, I've owned a cammed LS in the past.. I've also owned a cammed Boss.

A few reasons why LS respond better than the boss when cammed

1. No replacement for displacement 5.7, 6.0, 6.3 are all bigger than 5.4

2. They have more compression

3. They love to rev where boss motors don't

4. They are usually fitted to lighter cars than boss motors (100-200kg difference usually)

5. The ls1 motors are heavily detuned in stock form where boss motors are closer to their maximum capacity out of the factory.

6. The boss itself is a heavy motor, LS motors are lighter, made of alluminium

So yes the LS responds better to cams than boss but a cammed boss is still a very nice motor.. I'd prefer to boost a boss than cam it. (Especially the lower comp versions)

Your question is about cams but the answer is opposite if boosting motors.. When boosting a boss motor there are big gains, not so much in LS cars (compression)

[Parfrey]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

They do sound tough when cammed, I've owned a cammed LS in the past.. I've also owned a cammed Boss.

A few reasons why LS respond better than the boss when cammed

1. No replacement for displacement 5.7, 6.0, 6.3 are all bigger than 5.4

2. They have more compression

3. They love to rev where boss motors don't

4. They are usually fitted to lighter cars than boss motors (100-200kg difference usually)

5. The ls1 motors are heavily detuned in stock form where boss motors are closer to their maximum capacity out of the factory.

6. The boss itself is a heavy motor, LS motors are lighter, made of alluminium

So yes the LS responds better to cams than boss but a cammed boss is still a very nice motor.. I'd prefer to boost a boss than cam it. (Especially the lower comp versions)

Your question is about cams but the answer is opposite if boosting motors.. When boosting a boss motor there are big gains, not so much in LS cars (compression)

1. the replacement is boost

2. Apart from the 260, they don't have more comp, depending on which models your comparing.

3. Boss motors love to rev, are you sure you owned one?

4. LS are cheap and easy to mod, not really 'de-tuned' as that would indicate a 'tune only' can release lots of HP, which it can't.


Probably the biggest down side to a Boss is they are harder to work on and more expensive (4 cams) to mod. Not as easy for Joe blow to slap a cam and valve springs in then send it off for a tune..

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Parfrey

1. the replacement is boost

2. Apart from the 260, they don't have more comp, depending on which models your comparing.

3. Boss motors love to rev, are you sure you owned one?

4. LS are cheap and easy to mod, not really 'de-tuned' as that would indicate a 'tune only' can release lots of HP, which it can't.


Probably the biggest down side to a Boss is they are harder to work on and more expensive (4 cams) to mod. Not as easy for Joe blow to slap a cam and valve springs in then send it off for a tune..

Yep. Ls motors are a dollar a dozen, every chump has one cus they're cheap and easy to work on. This makes parts easier to get also for your average modder!

This is shown or magnified in the USA!

[Havoc]

because you touch yourself at night?

[TheZHLANE]

Don't know about sound but they definitely go better than the slug 5.4s.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by TheZHLANE

Don't know about sound but they definitely go better than the slug 5.4s.

Post #12 for you sir........

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Post #12 for you sir........

There are other variants of LS engines besides the LS1

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

There are other variants of LS engines besides the LS1

Yes there are - but the results are the same.
and the more you push the LS motors - the more inconsistent they get.
Bad heat soak , high coolant and high oil temps.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ght=plot+twist

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Yes there are - but the results are the same.
and the more you push the LS motors - the more inconsistent they get.
Bad heat soak , high coolant and high oil temps.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ght=plot+twist

How are the results the same? Head and cam LS3's make alot more power than head and cam LS1's, they make more power than cammed 5.4's too from what ive seen.

[Express]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

There are other variants of LS engines besides the LS1

There sure is and the differences in the head design of the later engines over the LS1 is one of the big factors as to why the new motors are a much better proposition than the old LS1.

The problem with the LS1 & LS2 was their restrictive cathedral port shaped heads which makes them hard to get easy power from.

The L92 type heads used on the LS3 onwards and the L98 & L77 have much better factory flow capabilities and respond to cams, exhausts and tunes much better than the LS1.

Without getting into the specifics of the head variation for the many difference GM Engines the basics are as follows:

LS1/2


L92




It took a lot of porting on my LS2 to get it to flow and it still didn't come close to matching the L92.

[STINKY NINJA]

Cammed and tuned ls motors are like bellybuttons...

[ratter]

when playing with my Boss 290 years ago, we were seeing 280-290 rwkw from an unopened motor, head and cam package tuned LS1's we were seeing 260's on the same dyno

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by ratter

when playing with my Boss 290 years ago, we were seeing 280-290 rwkw from an unopened motor, head and cam package tuned LS1's we were seeing 260's on the same dyno

What sort of cams were the LS's using, in comparison to whats available for 5.4's?

I reckon you'd be able to get much bigger cams for the LS motors, if could put up with the bad manners.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by ratter

when playing with my Boss 290 years ago, we were seeing 280-290 rwkw from an unopened motor, head and cam package tuned LS1's we were seeing 260's on the same dyno

my head/cam stock ls1 346ci made 330rwkw. and did 120mph in the 1/4 n/a to back it up. in a vt r8

not all cams and heads are created equal.

a proper built lsx these days can disgrace built big blocks

[ebxr8240]

Because the 4 valve head breaths better in the first place!

[PepeLePew]

In a previous life I had a head cam (fair bit of overlap) LS1 mafless tune OTR 3" single and 287rwkw from 227rwkw. Head cam part was 5.5k drive in drive out. OMG the sound of the thing. Later of course I had a call from the new owner asking if I had the stock exhaust to try and quieten it and get the yellow off he'd collected. But the sound OMG. I have a video I saved of ur last day I had it and I miss that sound sooooo

With 3.91's in the manual it was tons of fun. About on the civilized limit of what could be gotten out of the 5.7 at the time with a cam. I do miss it a tad, the Miami is a magnificent stick but it just wish sometimes it was a bit less civilised with more V8 darkness/mood, more America less Euro (not like you car about that when you give it a shove). It's just that damn sweet and dare I say sophisticated. Anyone got a link to a example of a cammed version of either I don't think I've heard a cammed 5.4 or 5.0?

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

I do miss it a tad, the Miami is a magnificent stick but it just wish sometimes it was a bit less civilised with more V8 darkness/mood, more America less Euro (not like you car about that when you give it a shove). It's just that damn sweet and dare I say sophisticated.

I agree with this 100% and while you mention a Miami I think the same can be said for a Boss. It is actually one of the things I hated about my FG 5.4 - coming from a cammed Windsor, the Boss in comparison was almost clinical, sterile, no character etc.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

In a previous life I had a head cam (fair bit of overlap) LS1 mafless tune OTR 3" single and 287rwkw from 227rwkw. Head cam part was 5.5k drive in drive out. OMG the sound of the thing. Later of course I had a call from the new owner asking if I had the stock exhaust to try and quieten it and get the yellow off he'd collected. But the sound OMG. I have a video I saved of ur last day I had it and I miss that sound sooooo

With 3.91's in the manual it was tons of fun. About on the civilized limit of what could be gotten out of the 5.7 at the time with a cam. I do miss it a tad, the Miami is a magnificent stick but it just wish sometimes it was a bit less civilised with more V8 darkness/mood, more America less Euro (not like you car about that when you give it a shove). It's just that damn sweet and dare I say sophisticated. Anyone got a link to a example of a cammed version of either I don't think I've heard a cammed 5.4 or 5.0?

Sound exactly like my old cammed ls1 from years ago.. had the wife of new owner call me 6 months after purchase complaining that its illegal and her husband was caught by police doing burnouts.. car impounded. What can i do?

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

In a previous life I had a head cam (fair bit of overlap) LS1 mafless tune OTR 3" single and 287rwkw from 227rwkw. Head cam part was 5.5k drive in drive out. OMG the sound of the thing. Later of course I had a call from the new owner asking if I had the stock exhaust to try and quieten it and get the yellow off he'd collected. But the sound OMG. I have a video I saved of ur last day I had it and I miss that sound sooooo

With 3.91's in the manual it was tons of fun. About on the civilized limit of what could be gotten out of the 5.7 at the time with a cam. I do miss it a tad, the Miami is a magnificent stick but it just wish sometimes it was a bit less civilised with more V8 darkness/mood, more America less Euro (not like you car about that when you give it a shove). It's just that damn sweet and dare I say sophisticated. Anyone got a link to a example of a cammed version of either I don't think I've heard a cammed 5.4 or 5.0?

like the mod motor mustangs facebook page they are everywhere

[fgpsi]

I agree sound and performance it's definitely ls >>>> boss motors

[tapeworm]

Yes the bos powered Falcons are generally a few hundred KG heavier as well as taller geared especially a BTR version. The Boss motors often show more grunt on the dyno however. I rule

[Express]

I’ve always thought the majority of LS motors sound ordinary though very occasionally and I do mean very occasionally you hear a half decent one.

This is my cammed and ported heads LS2 with a quiet Walkingshaw catback exhaust and factory HSV headers and cats backed with a manual gearbox.
A good tuner has no problem in tuning it to give good driving manners.



Even though this car has a quiet exhaust to help keep it less noticeable, in my opinion the LS cammed motors even when fitted with a 100cpi Cats, 4 into 1’s and 3 inch exhaust are still ordinary. Maybe I'm just too old and showing my age as I believe you can't beat the sound of a old school cammed Cleveland 351/302 or Holden 308/253 and to me nothing else rates.





Now this old school 304 wouldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding but it sounds good getting around.





By the way these videos were taken on the same day with the same cheap camera.

One day I'll get around to doing one of the Cleveland, it sounds even better.

[fgpsi]

Originally Posted by Express

I’ve always thought the majority of LS motors sound ordinary though very occasionally and I do mean very occasionally you hear a half decent one.

This is my cammed and ported heads LS2 with a quiet Walkingshaw catback exhaust and factory HSV headers and cats backed with a manual gearbox.
A good tuner has no problem in tuning it to give good driving manners.

image

Even though this car has a quiet exhaust to help keep it less noticeable, in my opinion the LS cammed motors even when fitted with a 100cpi Cats, 4 into 1’s and 3 inch exhaust are still ordinary. Maybe I'm just too old and showing my age as I believe you can't beat the sound of a old school cammed Cleveland 351/302 or Holden 308/253 and to me nothing else rates.





Now this old school 304 wouldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding but it sounds good getting around.

image

I used to have a VY SS with otr, tune and full di fillipo 2 and a half with the mufflers deleted for hotdogs + di fillipo extractors

Sounded horn