Back to the Future ?

[EBSXR6]

I know this is pure speculation, if there were no ADRs for Emissions, Noise etc it would be interesting to know with modern technology how much extra the engineers could extract from an engine in terms of KW, NM and Economy compared to an ADR Compliant engine.

[Venomous1]

probably add 25-50 kw on Turbo Engines. Less on N/A but I've wondered this myself.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by Venomous1

probably add 25-50 kw on Turbo Engines. Less on N/A but I've wondered this myself.

Cats are definitely a big negative.

[Express]

That question is a bit like, 'how fast can a pushbike go?'

[Craig@AUDI]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Cats are definitely a big negative.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by Craig@Rockdale

image

LOL I did leave myself open to that one

[GO FURTHER]

Modern technology ..... That's the beauty of electric cars... No emissions to worry about and minimal noise.
Tesla S ..... 0 - 100Km in 3 secs.... That's the future!

[commodorenutt]

Think back to pre-72 when ADRs started - they didn't have to work real hard to develop engines like they do these days (and have done so for the last 20 odd years).
The engines we were given (with the exception of the ones played with for Bathurst) were lazy, thirsty and unresponsive.

I think we'd be further behind than we are now. ADRs gave the development engineers a target to meet - a target that required them to design far more efficient engines - channelling millions into R&D of port design, materials, cam profiles, combustion chamber shapes etc.

Increased efficiency = more power, so the bonus to us has been power - as a byproduct of them seeking greater efficiency gains to meet ever-tightening emissions targets.

Take away that goal, and they won't have to chase it. Only supercars & homologation specials will be the winners.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

Think back to pre-72 when ADRs started - they didn't have to work real hard to develop engines like they do these days (and have done so for the last 20 odd years).
The engines we were given (with the exception of the ones played with for Bathurst) were lazy, thirsty and unresponsive.

Most cars back then worked on the 'Murrican principle of "Thar ain't no substitute fer cubic feet"

[chevypower]

You would probably see the biggest difference on turbo diesels. They would puff out black smoke when they accelerate, but they would have almost no lag, incredible power and fuel economy.

[cheap]

Just look at what VW achieved when they bypassed emission laws. Better fuel economy, more power...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cheap

Just look at what VW achieved when they bypassed emission laws. Better fuel economy, more power...

And an investigation and law suit

[Jacko*]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I know this is pure speculation, if there were no ADRs for Emissions, Noise etc it would be interesting to know with modern technology how much extra the engineers could extract from an engine in terms of KW, NM and Economy compared to an ADR Compliant engine.

That's an interesting question, but we need to narrow it down a bit. What would we likely change about a modern engine to achieve maximum output. Would we just remove all the pollution & noise controls? Would we start tinkering with the engines internals, camshaft, heads, valve springs? I recon if all we were able to change was exhaust, intake & tune with no emission requirements, 25% increase in power at maximum rpm might be achievable. But the more we would try to increase power the worse our economy would get. A free flowing exhaust & intake would only be of benefit once the limitations of the original setup have been reached, this would be in the upper rev range for most engines. More interesting than maximum power for me would be the torque curve over the entire rev range, this is where any improvements would be noticed the most (for a street driven car).

[jimt3te50]

Look at what the aftermarket can produce from the same platforms largely without the encumberences of emissions laws etc, it's no coincidence