Ford and Volkswagen to team up to build next Ranger and Amarok utes

[Chopped]

Interesting

"The Ford Ranger and Volkswagen Amarok will join forces to take down the Toyota HiLux.

The makers have just announced a new US-German partnership to develop the next-generation Ranger and Amarok and a range of commercial vans.

Ford and Volkswagen expect the dual-cab ute to hit the market by 2022.

This should provide a big boost for VW Amarok which is currently only the ninth best selling dual-cab in the ute in the country.

The alliance also opens the door for numerous possibilities including an off-road Amarok similar to the current Raptor or a Ranger equipped with VW’s 3.0-litre V6 turbo diesel (190kW/580Nm) which is currently the most powerful in its class.

According to VW boss Herbert Diess, the alliance aims to boost the profitability of both brands with the ability to adjust rapidly to market demands and reduce development costs.

“Volkswagen and Ford will harness our collective resources, innovation capabilities and complementary market positions to even better serve millions of customers around the world,” says Diess.

“At the same time, the alliance will be a cornerstone for our drive to improve competitiveness.”

Ford boss Jim Hackett also promoted the benefits for the brands and buyers: “Over time, this alliance will help both companies create value and meet the needs of our customers and society. It will not only drive significant efficiencies and help both companies improve their fitness, but also gives us the opportunity to collaborate on shaping the next era of mobility.”

Ford is expected to develop the new ute and a medium van while VW will build a city van for the alliance.

Ford worked with Mazda to produce the Ranger/BT-50 twins before the relationship broke down — Mazda’s mechanically identical ute was a sales disaster selling less than half the rate of the Ranger. Mazda has now teamed up with Isuzu to build its next-gen ute.

Ford and VW have also agreed to look at sharing tech for electric and autonomous vehicles.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...9c818d9028e135

[jpd80]

Something tells me that VW will be quite happy to fully outsource its Amarok and Transporter from Ford,
I'm sure that Ford would prefer to supply its own 3.0 V6 Powerstroke and 10AT over using VW's V6 diesel and transmission.

[DFB FGXR6]

How / Will this affect the Australian engineering team currently responsible for the Ranger is my question.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

How / Will this affect the Australian engineering team currently responsible for the Ranger is my question.

I’d be thinking they’re about to get some extra work?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I’d be thinking they’re about to get some extra work?

Well the press release says Ford will develop the Amarok so that seems most likely.

[roKWiz]

Raptor might end up with a Porsche engine and VW might actually pass an emissions test.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I’d be thinking they’re about to get some extra work?

Would certainly hope so.

I just have this feeling that it could end up being a case of "thanks guys, we will take it from here" situation.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Would certainly hope so.

I just have this feeling that it could end up being a case of "thanks guys, we will take it from here" situation.

I think it’ll be the case of:

“You want a Ranger Platform vehicle ? We’ll do it and we’ll tell you what you can and can’t have.

Thanks”

[russellw]

Hard to see the plus in this for Ford which currently (in Australia) sells more than four times the volumes of the Amarok (42,144 v 9,290 in 2018).

Even the Transit only sells slightly less than the Transporter (1,880 v 2,095) so there's not a lot of benefit there either.

Puzzling.

[DJR-351]

A better article on the subject without all the news.com.au hypo clickbait carp The Ford Ranger and Volkswagen Amarok will join forces to take down the Toyota HiLux no offence Chopped

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/15/ford...d-trucks-.html

Ford and Volkswagen will build commercial vans and pickup trucks together in new partnership

The companies announced the agreement on the second day of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

Ford and Volkswagen plan to build commercial vans and medium-sized pickup trucks together as early as 2022 as part of a new partnership announced Tuesday.

The partnership is expected to boost annual pre-tax operating results for both companies starting in 2023, the two companies said in announcing the agreement on the second day of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

They also signed a "memorandum of understanding" to work together on autonomous vehicle research and will consider new vehicle programs in the future, Ford CEO Jim Hackett said on a conference call Tuesday morning.

It is the first formal agreement in a broad alliance between the American and German automakers. The Ford-Volkswagen partnership will be governed by a joint committee led by Hackett and Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess.

"I want to emphasize simplicity and speed here," said Hackett on the call. He added the firms have spent a considerable amount of time focusing on how they can collaborate effectively.

However, the two firms will not take ownership stakes in each other, French carmaker Renault did with Japan's Nissan in the late 1990s. While the Renault deal seemed to work seamlessly for years, it appears to be crumbling following the arrest of Nissan's former Chairman Carlos Ghosn, which some industry executives say is politically motivated to wrest control away from Renault.

Ford and Volkswagen plan to build commercial vans and medium-sized pickup trucks together as early as 2022 as part of a new partnership announced Tuesday.

The partnership is expected to boost annual pre-tax operating results for both companies starting in 2023, the two companies said in announcing the agreement on the second day of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

They also signed a "memorandum of understanding" to work together on autonomous vehicle research and will consider new vehicle programs in the future, Ford CEO Jim Hackett said on a conference call Tuesday morning.

It is the first formal agreement in a broad alliance between the American and German automakers. The Ford-Volkswagen partnership will be governed by a joint committee led by Hackettand Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess.

"I want to emphasize simplicity and speed here," said Hackett on the call. He added the firms have spent a considerable amount of time focusing on how they can collaborate effectively.

However, the two firms will not take ownership stakes in each other, French carmaker Renault did with Japan's Nissan in the late 1990s. While the Renault deal seemed to work seamlessly for years, it appears to be crumbling following the arrest of Nissan's former Chairman Carlos Ghosn, which some industry executives say is politically motivated to wrest control away from Renault.

"Ford and Volkswagen will continue operating as two separate and competitive entities," Hackett said.

Both firms already have commercial vehicle businesses. Ford currently produces the Transit line of commercial vans and the Ranger mid-size pickup, while Volkswagen currently makes the Transporter and Caddy vans and Amarok pickup truck.

Ford is going to make medium-size pickups and commercial vans for the partnership while Volkswagen will develop a city van, Hackett said on the call.

The medium-sized pickup will be made for markets in Africa, South America and Europe only so far.

The news follows Volkswagen's Monday announcement that it will invest $800 million to beginning manufacturing electric vehicle technology in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

"This underlies our strong commitment to the United States," Diess said.

Last week, Ford said it plans to cut thousands of jobs across Europe in an effort to turn around its business in the region, where it has struggled to maintain profitability.

[redozzy64]

What are they going to call it, Ranamok?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by russellw

Hard to see the plus in this for Ford which currently (in Australia) sells more than four times the volumes of the Amarok (42,144 v 9,290 in 2018).

Even the Transit only sells slightly less than the Transporter (1,880 v 2,095) so there's not a lot of benefit there either.

Puzzling.

Because if VW pay half of the development costs that will be a significant saving. And Ford will be building the Amarok and Transporter too, so I would assume VW would be paying Ford to do that?

Either way it will save Ford a lot of money and potentially generate money too. And I reckon Ford wants to tap into VW's EV vehicle technology considering VW are spending billions on their EV platform.

Ford need to tell VW to get stuffed if they think they can get access to the Raptor. I don't see a VW version as likely though. You'd have to think Ford won't allow it.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Because if VW pay half of the development costs that will be a significant saving. And Ford will be building the Amarok and Transporter too, so I would assume VW would be paying Ford to do that?

Either way it will save Ford a lot of money and potentially generate money too. And I reckon Ford wants to tap into VW's EV vehicle technology considering VW are spending billions on their EV platform.

Ford need to tell VW to get stuffed if they think they can get access to the Raptor. I don't see a VW version as likely though. You'd have to think Ford won't allow it.

At least your not shy about double standards

Ford: Hey VW, show us what you got on EV's will ya mate

Ford: Hey VW, get the **** away from that Raptor ya mongrels

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

At least your not shy about double standards

Ford: Hey VW, show us what you got on EV's will ya mate

Ford: Hey VW, get the **** away from that Raptor ya mongrels

The deal seems very one sided atm. VW gets Amarok and Transporter engineered and built by Ford. Ford only gets the small Crafter van to twin off.

There must be something else in it for Ford. Press release did mention some things about EV co-operation.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The deal seems very one sided atm. VW gets Amarok and Transporter engineered and built by Ford. Ford only gets the small Crafter van to twin off.

There must be something else in it for Ford. Press release did mention some things about EV co-operation.

Doubt they would have done it for ev. You can buy that off the shelf. More likely they need the cash injection. Cheaper to get the car out and have good profit margins.

[mick0082]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford need to tell VW to get stuffed if they think they can get access to the Raptor. I don't see a VW version as likely though. You'd have to think Ford won't allow it.

I don't think the current Ranger Raptor is beyond what VW (or many other manufacturers) are capable of producing themselves. The Raptor is cool and gets good reviews but from a fit and finish perspective it's not worth it's asking price (just my opinion).
Quality is an area that the partnership may improve on. Not to say that the current Amarok is perfection either.

Both companies have acess to bigger 6 cylinder powerplants. After owning a bi-turbo diesel, ZF trans Amarok for three years and then driving a V6 Amarok on a few occasions; I can say with confidence it really reminds me of the age old saying: "there's no substitute for cubes".

As others have eluded, this is a cost efficiency exercise for at least one of the two involved. I'm looking forward to the outcome... should be a good product.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by russellw

Hard to see the plus in this for Ford which currently (in Australia) sells more than four times the volumes of the Amarok (42,144 v 9,290 in 2018).

Even the Transit only sells slightly less than the Transporter (1,880 v 2,095) so there's not a lot of benefit there either.

Puzzling.

I think Ford having access to some of VW's EV tech would be the counter balance, post diesel-gate VW has stated a massive spend on EV vehicles. Ford R&D on Ranger probably won't get a big jump by having to include VW although if Ford gains the higher quality interior experience of VW I'd be happy. I've owned 2 Transporters and now own a Transit Custom and VW interiors are just better.
Ford leveraging VW for EV's will help Ford enormously however.
Edit: Also sharing autonomous vehicle tech as well, which I think is becoming more expensive including meeting different government regulatory standards, even better mapping data to the actual vehicle technology.

[jpd80]

VW took a $30 billion hiding over dieselgate so maybe funds to develop commercial vehicles are harder to justify over say, outsourcing to Ford with defined per unit cost. The benefits increase as the markets multiply, Ford has a good Ranger manufacturing footprint around the globe.

[ebv8]

next thing they will stick and audi badge on it to compete with the merc or evan a porsche badge and start a new line of luxury utes for cashed up bogans

might need another mining boom for that though

[Hemihunter]

F150 Going Full Electric, and also a Hybred

https://electrek.co/2019/01/16/ford-...0ir6_zWOuNnyG0

[Nikked]

It's nothing new for Ford, with Volkswagon products (and visa versa) being sold in South America.

[malazn mafia]

Yuck. A partnership with VAG is just asking for trouble. VAG vehicles are a notch below GM and Ford products...

[jpd80]

There's also a Nissan Atlas commercial trucks

[jpd80]

If I was to have a guess
2.0 EB
3.0 V6 Powerstroke
2.7 EB or 3.0 EB For Raptor and USA.

The 10R is not a busy gearbox, it picks and skips gear shifts depending on load.
Never going back to ZF, the whole idea was to move a big chunk of cost in house.
And on that note, Transit Custom will probably get 8-speed auto option.

Eitherway, scuttlebutt was that VW was blown away with what Ford was planning
with commercials, it was more than they expected and exactly what they wanted...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If I was to have a guess
2.0 EB
3.0 V6 Powerstroke
2.7 EB or 3.0 EB For Raptor and USA.

The 10R is not a busy gearbox, it picks and skips gear shifts depending on load.
Never going back to ZF, the whole idea was to move a big chunk of cost in house.
And on that note, Transit Custom will probably get 8-speed auto option.

Eitherway, scuttlebutt was that VW was blown away with what Ford was planning
with commercials, it was more than they expected and exactly what they wanted...

I think the my18.5 Custom is the best effort yet and it's only downfall here in Oz is the lack of desire locally/or Ford Europe unhelpfulness to increase the model range and options list...
Eg: Transit Custom Double-cab-in Van (Crewvan)
Kombi Version
Hybrid model undergoing testing as I type
125kW version (for Custom)
Sport Model

Have a look at the Ford UK Transit Custom brochure, its 12 pages long with 10 pages being spec/options lists.

If they can switch to the 8-speed auto as found in the Focus/Edge/Endura and use the rotary dial as the selector, it creates even more dash space and better front cabin middle passenger knee room or general walk through space etc.
https://www.ford.co.uk/content/dam/g...Custom_new.pdf

[Wetaline2]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If I was to have a guess
2.0 EB
3.0 V6 Powerstroke
2.7 EB or 3.0 EB For Raptor and USA.

The 10R is not a busy gearbox, it picks and skips gear shifts depending on load.
Never going back to ZF, the whole idea was to move a big chunk of cost in house.
And on that note, Transit Custom will probably get 8-speed auto option.

Eitherway, scuttlebutt was that VW was blown away with what Ford was planning
with commercials, it was more than they expected and exactly what they wanted...

I'm not very familiar with the 2.0 Ecoboost engine, is this the twin-scroll? Online torque output seems to be max around 380nm? Power figures look ok though. Is this capable of higher torque output for the ranger application?

The US ranger uses the 2.3EB from what I can tell with 200kw and 420nm - Wouldn't this 2.3EB be a better option?
The larger 3L V6 powerstroke, 2.7EB or 3.0EB look even better options (ie. feel like plenty of power/torque rather than just enough) for the ranger.
Guessing tightening emissions may limit what they adopt in our new ranger though.

I'm just wondering how much torque is the 2.0EB capable of?
And how does this engine compare with the current 2.0L biturbo which isn't much of a power/torque upgrade from the 3.2 5cyl?

[jpd80]

The 8-speed fits where the 6-speed goes now, it’s just forward evolution of the JV box.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The 8-speed fits where the 6-speed goes now, it’s just forward evolution of the JV box.

Sorry, I meant the actual gear selector and surrounding dash trim vs rotary dial , the latter can create more knee room to the middle passenger position or offer the chance to add more storage.

[EgoFG]

If the F series is going Electric - perhaps electric/hybrid is the plan for the ranger that VW loved. my dad used to say - "Max torque in an electric motor is at stall"

[Bossxr8]

He meant no sign of a production version.