Choosing my next vehicle

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 08:28 PM

The story is that I needed to upgrade my vehicle so that I can tow my Escorts such as my rally car to, and hopefully from, events.

I am looking for these things in my next vehicle:

* Ability to tow 1500kgs when required - note that this will be once every two months or so, not every weekend.
* Return some sort of fuel economy when not towing, no greater than 11L/100km around town.
* Be comfortable inside, able to take my girlfriend out to dinner in. As in, not a hose-out agricultural interior found in old Landcruisers. As whatever vehicle I buy will come with a fuel card, I plan to make the most of it, so want to make any trips we go in this vehicle.
* Has to be able to sit on the highway comfortably and consistently.
* Not be a Falcon, every single Falcon I have owned has been a nightmare and never again. I know most of you own Falcons and love them, but I could never trust one again as far as I could throw it, and they are heavy, and I am not a massive person. Some of you know my BA XR6 story, 4 months in Fords workshops, etc, never again.
* Cost no less than 20 grand (coz I am leasing it pre-tax) and upper limit of 25k-ish.
* Does not have to have a Ford badge on it, but I am not sure I could ever own a Kia etc.

Leading my vehicle choice is the:

Ford Escape XLT V6

I know, it's a Ford, but it really does seem to be the best thing for my needs. It can tow, it returns good fuel economy when I am not towing. It's got a plush velour interior, it comes with cruise, 6 stacker CD, power everything, ABS, EBD, traction control, alloy wheels (which I won't be replacing this time, very very few mods, if any, will be happening to this), fog lights, painted bumpers (as opposed to the base model XLS that is). It's comfortable to drive, and I could happily take my girlfriend out in it to dinner. I can also secure a 2002 model XLT V6 with roughly 50 odd thousand kms on it for low 20s. The V6 puts out 155kw as opposed to the Escape four cylinder at just over 100kw.

Other choices:

Mazda Tribute

The blood brother of the Escape, this vehicle is so ugly, it makes kids cry. My girlfriend doesn't like it, I don't like it, it costs about the same as an Escape, so why choose Dame Edna Everage over Nicole Kidman.

Nissan X-Trail

Rather embarassing looking, and with only a 2.5L four cylinder to boot, this little Nissan can be found reasonably priced, and with a 2000kg tow pack, it supposedly can tow. I'm not convinced I could handle driving something that is surely popular with shaved headed lesbian women though (no offence to lesbians who enjoy shaving their heads).

Honda CR-V

I like Hondas. Our family Honda Accord V6 is a beautiful thing. The problem is, the V6 is a luxury not afforded by the light Honda 4WD. In fact, the VTEC 4 cylinder only puts out slightly more power than the Ford Escape four cylinder, which would make towing a nightmare. My Focus had that sort of power, in a chassis that weighed less.

Ford Territory

My favourite Ford wagon, the Territory does have close links with the Falcon, including my most unfavourite part of any Falcon, the 4L 6 cylinder fuel guzzler. However, price alone will leave me out of the Territory game, and its fuel economy is even worse than a Falcon.

Subaru Forester

What better way to tow a rally car than with another car made by a well known rally marque. The problem is, Subarus seem to hold their value so well, that I'd be looking at a 1999 Forester GT with around 80,000kms on it for the money I want to spend. They don't come with a wealth of goodies (compared to the Escape for example), and being a turbo 4 cylinder, they aren't all that cheap to insure. Nice cars though, but the styling is a bit like it or hate it.

Nissan Pathfinder Turbo Diesel

I am very impressed by this. Despite looking like a set of wooden blocks assembled by Picasso, it's a strong reliable package. Turbo diesel means cheap to run, but again, these are as pricey as a Territory, which leaves me a little high and dry.

Toyota Kluger

I love Toyotas reliability, I hate Toyotas driving dynamics of a kitchen appliance (well the ones I have had to drive in the past anyway). The Kluger sounds like a German WW2 weapon, but looks like the visual equivelant of the name John Smith. They hold their value remarkably well, meaning it will be tough to impossible to find one for the sort of money I want to spend.

These cars fall into the "would be suitable but I'd be too embarassed to admit to owning it" category:

Kia Sorrento or Sportage V6
Hyundai Terracan
Any Holden really
Probably more that I can't think of right now.

--------------------

That's currently where I stand. If anyone can think of a glaring vehicle I have missed that would be suitable for my requirements, please say so and I'll look into it. As it stands, I'm pretty impressed with the Escape XLT V6 and it's leading my list.

Opinions / comments / advice?

Timmeh

LTDHO · 19-10-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmeh

* Not be a Falcon, every single Falcon I have owned has been a nightmare and never again. I know most of you own Falcons and love them, but I could never trust one again as far as I could throw it, and they are heavy, and I am not a massive person. Some of you know my BA XR6 story, 4 months in Fords workshops, etc, never again.

Then bugger off to another forum

:

Anyway, thought about a Hilux? My bro has one. Good value.

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 08:39 PM

You're a comedian!

:monkes:

We have the new Hilux at work and the interior is still too agricultural. I do like the exterior styling of the new ones, but they are too pricey for me at the moment, and the older ones are even less comfortable to drive. As for highway driving, I have found the work Hiluxes are no fun at all.

Good suggestion though, and one that I did consider!

Tim

buickman · 19-10-2005, 08:56 PM

You seem to be looking at 4WD type cars. Its only a Escort & trailer.
I've towed A trailer with a Cortina V8 many times & VL Commodore to Lakes Entrance with the AU ghia sat well at 80-100ks. The last of the Magnas should easy tow that even FWD or a dare to say it even though you would be embarassed commodore with the passanger cars. The servicing & maintainace on the SUV type cars is expensive.
They bag the AU's but mech they are reliable

buickman

parawolf · 19-10-2005, 08:40 PM

X-Trail or Escape....

**Falcon Coupe** · 19-10-2005, 08:44 PM

Territory, the rest are shielas cars, except the Patrol, which is no more refined than a new Hilux.

GTP 320 · 19-10-2005, 08:47 PM

Well you might as well stick to a Ford,so go for the Escape,i like the look of them and seem to be pretty well built.
Cheers John

Dave_au · 19-10-2005, 08:54 PM

You seem to be aiming directly for the softroaders - not too sure just how well a 4cyl softroader would go at towing 1500kg - I'd knock that list down to 6 cylinder vehicles and the turbo diesel if I were you.

Out of that list though I'd say the Pathfinder would be the best tower, followed by the territory.

What about sedans - Mitsubishi 380? Maxima? Honda Accordigan Euro?. Front drivers I know, but most of those softroaders you have listed above are front wheel drive biased anyway.

Magna VRXs would be going for a steal right about now - probably the best bang for your buck out of the big four family sedans - with the bodykit they don't look quite as foul as the lower spec trims.

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 09:03 PM

You're right in saying I am looking at that market, basically because I would never own another Falcon, Commodores are out of the question, Camrys are very mundane vehicles (we test drove them when looking to buy our ill-fated BA XR6), and Mistubishis are much of the same.

I'd like a vehicle with a bit of character, the Maxima might be worth a look in. Not sure I could afford the current shape one, but I can look. Perhaps a Ralliart Magna but I guess they will be expensive, I'll check.

For info, an Escort rally car plus trailer equates to about 1500kg, so the vehicle in question would need to be rated to tow that weight. Seen to many accidents where tiny cars tow large loads and end up being run over by it. I understand full sized sedans do offer such tow packs.

Good ideas, keep them coming.

Tim

Dave_au · 19-10-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmeh

Perhaps a Ralliart Magna but I guess they will be expensive, I'll check.

They stopped producing the Ralliarts in 2003 - second hand these go between 22,000 to 28,000 these days. There only about 500 of them, and less than 90 were manual.

If you take the Evo rear spoiler off it and replace it with a TJ rear spoiler, their not too bad.

You could pick up a TJ series 2 VRX built in 2003 - the last Magnas before the Boulay nose made an apearance, these ones are pretty good.

efgiar · 19-10-2005, 09:05 PM

i would go ef/el fairmont, nice comfy, can tow 2 ton if u get the right bar, will have cruise and all the elec, and are really not that bad to repair stuff, not as bad as a BA or AU anyways :P

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 09:14 PM

Well, I have already listed that I will never buy another Falcon, however, as I am going to lease this vehicle through work, it has to be less than 7 years old. I really would like a 2-3 year old though as a maximum age.

While Ralliart Magnas are close to my price range, they certainly have a bodykit that says Look At Me!!! VRX AWD Magnas are just too damn ugly. I found a nice purple one though, for those that swing that way.

Still researching other options such as the Maxima and the Honda Accord.

Tim

MrSparkle · 19-10-2005, 09:17 PM

To offer a popular view, Ford has absolutely nothing on offer for you at this point in time that will be either efficient or adequate in resale. Now, I have not had any on-road experience in the two options I propose but you have for one of them. They are the turbo diesel Pathfinder and the new Hilux. Spent a bit of time around both at the motor show and either would be my choice for something in that segment. If you're not convinced with the Hilux on the road, try the Pathfinder. Apparently a pretty good device and the new diesel is a decent unit.

EFFalcon · 19-10-2005, 09:37 PM

lots of towing = turbo deisel IMO.
what ever u can get along those lines, the rest just don't seem like great tow cars to me.

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 09:46 PM

See, I won't be doing lots of towing, it will only be once every second month max.

I have checked the towing capacities and the Nissan Maxima and Honda Accords are no good. V6 Camry Sportivos are still worth high 20s but I might find one for a good price, and can tow what I need.

Sparkles - I like your ideas but I can't afford a new Pathfinder or the new Hilux, and older models just don't cut it in terms of comfort (Hilux) or power (Pathfinder - well, in comparison to a newer Escape).

It's all about finding the best vehicle for the compromise I am after. I'm just researching V6 Camry prices but boy these cars are bland!

Tim

clontarf_x · 19-10-2005, 09:51 PM

Just get a damn Falcon... sheesh

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clontarf_x

Just get a damn Falcon... sheesh

You obviously have not had a brand new car sitting in Fords workshops for four months and then have Ford tell you they'll give you 23 grand for the thing that they can't fix to swap it for another brand new one that will cost 40 odd grand that we just paid.

Stop wasting my time.

Smoke Pursuit · 19-10-2005, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmeh

You obviously have not had a brand new car sitting in Fords workshops for four months and then have Ford tell you they'll give you 23 grand for the thing that they can't fix to swap it for another brand new one that will cost 40 odd grand that we just paid.

Stop wasting my time.

Bit harsh...

We bought a new Focus and have had a s h i t of a time with it, doesnt mean they are all crap. :dr_Evil: If you think people are wasting your time then don't bother asking the question mate.

You want a car that can tow then buy a real car, dont buy some half assed 4wd that will struggle to pull its own *** let alone a 1500 kg trailer. They are too smaler in out put and their foot print is alot smaller then that of a big Aussie 6, if your concerned about your own safety and other road users then get something thats overkill for what your using it for rather then something thats on the borderline, towing car trailers isn't playschool.

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Bit harsh...

We bought a new Focus and have had a s h i t of a time with it, doesnt mean they are all crap. :dr_Evil: If you think people are wasting your time then don't bother asking the question mate.

You want a car that can tow then buy a real car, dont buy some half assed 4wd that will struggle to pull its own *** let alone a 1500 kg trailer. They are too smaler in out put and their foot print is alot smaller then that of a big Aussie 6, if your concerned about your own safety and other road users then get something thats overkill for what your using it for rather then something thats on the borderline, towing car trailers isn't playschool.

I am not talking to you when I said stop wasting my time, I am talking about people with attitudes of "It never happened to me so they must be exagerating". You worded the same thing but in a way that doesn't make you sound like a... yeah anyway moving on.

I am not saying the Focus is perfect, never have, never will.

I have towed enough cars in my life and seen enough accidents to know what not to do, so don't assume I've never done this before. And a 155kw 1500kg car can pull its ***, as you put it, as well as a 180kw 1750kg car, but it won't have the torque of the Big 6 obviously. But it doesn't use as much fuel either.

I'm still considering my options as I have said before.

Tim

EL_futuraistic · 19-10-2005, 10:19 PM

Well, if you were unhappy with a BA then i prob wouldnt go with the Escape. I own an Xtrail, and i wouldnt consider towing more than a 6x4.... its only a ****y 2.5L 4cyl. If your after something for towing i would definately suggest a relitavely new Patrol Turbo Diesel, or Toyota Prado Turbo Diesel.

Falcons from what i have experienced and heard are an exceptionally competant tow vehicle. I think your BA experience was a one off.... which unfortunately has left a very sour taste in ur mouth when it comes to falcons.

On a serious note, i wouldnt even consider a magna, they have notoriously awful transmissions and if you using it for a lot of towing then you will undoubtedly melt it in a short period of time.

A family friend of ours has a Territory work vehicle, he uses it to tow a Charger race car around OZ and although it uses a substantial more fuel (although only barely run in) than his previous VY Wagon he says its the best tow vehicle he has owned.

In the end the choice is yours, but if you can swallow a barley sugar to sweeten your mouth then go with the suggestion of a BA futura with the 2300kg tow pack. You wont regret it

Smoke Pursuit · 19-10-2005, 09:52 PM

Its a bit hard for anyone to give you suggestions when it seems you have already decided...

I'd buy a BA Futura with the 2300 kg towpack, you can pick these up with 15,000 kms on them for around $22,000 and they are very reliable. They average about 11.5 litres per hundred to which isnt too bad, Territory on the other hand will use about 15/100 and even more when towing. My XR6 is 10,000 kays old and it hasnt missed a beat, same with our new XLS work ute which has done 8,000 kays, damn rippers of cars especially for towing.

For your info to the Escape doesnt handle as well as the Mazda Tribute, plus i hate that column shift, very tacky.. I think you will find that the Escape will be dropped from the Ford lineup eventually to as the sales are extremely poor. It wont tow that well either, not enough torque.

So if you wanna spend about $25 ish max id go for either a BA Futura or SR, they are very neat looking machines and can certainly tow the load with less effort then that of the escape and about 100 times more comfortible, plus if you get a later 04 one you shouldn't have any problems with it.

You really won't be happy with the towing capabilities of the Escape and towing that weight I wouldnt use one, very floaty kind of car. At the end of the day if you can get over the whole saga with your parents XR6 I think you will find the BA's are beautiful cars to own, they are just so comfortible to drive and have got the power when you need it.

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Its a bit hard for anyone to give you suggestions when it seems you have already decided...

I'd buy a BA Futura with the 2300 kg towpack, you can pick these up with 15,000 kms on them for around $22,000 and they are very reliable. They average about 11.5 litres per hundred to which isnt too bad, Territory on the other hand will use about 15/100 and even more when towing. My XR6 is 10,000 kays old and it hasnt missed a beat, same with our new XLS work ute which has done 8,000 kays, damn rippers of cars especially for towing.

For your info to the Escape doesnt handle as well as the Mazda Tribute, plus i hate that column shift, very tacky.. I think you will find that the Escape will be dropped from the Ford lineup eventually to as the sales are extremely poor. It wont tow that well either, not enough torque.

So if you wanna spend about $25 ish max id go for either a BA Futura or SR, they are very neat looking machines and can certainly tow the load with less effort then that of the escape and about 100 times more comfortible, plus if you get a later 04 one you shouldn't have any problems with it.

You really won't be happy with the towing capabilities of the Escape and towing that weight I wouldnt use one, very floaty kind of car. At the end of the day if you can get over the whole saga with your parents XR6 I think you will find the BA's are beautiful cars to own, they are just so comfortible to drive and have got the power when you need it.

Yeah you raise some good points, I'll find it extremely hard to trust a Falcon again. I seem to find very differing ideas on how a BA Falcon performs fuel wise, some XR6 Turbo owners say they get 11L/100km around the city, while we never got that in the extremely short time we had our BA XR6 NA.

I am going to take the Escape out for a test drive tomorrow, but also did have a peak at the Falcons on the lot to get an idea of pricing. Not sure if Ford have been giving away 5 years warranties on their BAs or not.

Do the later model BAs still have that awful brake shudder problem? And what is the life of the brake pads and rotors? These sort of issues that I read about when we owned our BA still concern me.

And I am still researching vehicles, I haven't made my mind up by any means.

Tim

Smoke Pursuit · 19-10-2005, 10:07 PM

Ok basically i can give you a rundown on BAs - we have had 3

We had an 02 Futura which did 55,000 kays with the only issue being brake shudder which was resolved in late 2003, other then that the car was faultless, and was built in Nov 02, so it was an early example.

My BA XR6 - Aug 04 has done 10,000 kays, so far the only issue ive had was the radio antenna and aircon not being cold because I didnt drive the car for 3 months basically. At the moment is going great, i did 400 kms in it yesturday and not a single thing to complain about, and was traveling on ty roads.

BA II XLS - May 05 and has done 8,000 kms, this is my work vehicle which our business owns and I use to see clients etc in, the only thing ive had done to this car in 8,000 kays is the passenger side indicator replaced as it had moisture in it. Otherwise its been a perfect example.

So i guess you could say all im trying to say is, dont cross the Falcon off, because they are Cheap to buy, they have heaps of features, they are reasonable on fuel providing you drive them nice and dont flog the *** out of them and it will easily tow your trailer without even trying - its got plenty of torque.

The Escapes just arent a nice car, I have experienced the latest version with the colour coded bumpers and alloys - my local dealer has a demo and they are boring!

For the price your looking at you wont get anythign bigger in the 4wd market unless you look at something a little older! Sorry for making it sound like I assumed you hadn't towed a trailer to, but I really think the Escape is too small.

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 10:11 PM

Yeah, thats fair enough... thanks for your experience. I'll still be worried about brake issues but we'll see, when I go back to Ford tomorrow I'll have a look anyway.

Tim

Steffo · 19-10-2005, 10:37 PM

Well, I'll add my two cents worth....

http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsa...rice_max=25000

Subaru Liberty RX, 2003 model...

Decently powered 2.5litre 4cyl engine... 115kW @ 5600rpm and 223Nm @ 3600rpm, when new, claims were 10.0L/100km city and 8.2L/100km highway, 64L tank, only needs 91 RON regular. Towing capacity is rated at 1400kg with braked trailer though, not sure if this would meet your requirements?

I was going to recommend, in the interests of fuel costs and such an E-Gas Ford, but not everyone likes those, and you're adamant with your choice not to get a Falcon, so I won't bother. IMO the Liberty is a good choice.

Though, if it was down to the vehicles you'd original listed, a black Escape V6 would be what I'd get. My mate's parents have a Tribute V6 Luxury, its a really nice soft-roader, though they look better as Escape's IMO.

wulos · 19-10-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Well, I'll add my two cents worth....

http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsa...rice_max=25000

Subaru Liberty RX, 2003 model...

Decently powered 2.5litre 4cyl engine... 115kW @ 5600rpm and 223Nm @ 3600rpm, when new, claims were 10.0L/100km city and 8.2L/100km highway, 64L tank, only needs 91 RON regular. Towing capacity is rated at 1400kg with braked trailer though, not sure if this would meet your requirements?

I was going to recommend, in the interests of fuel costs and such an E-Gas Ford, but not everyone likes those, and you're adamant with your choice not to get a Falcon, so I won't bother. IMO the Liberty is a good choice.

Though, if it was down to the vehicles you'd original listed, a black Escape V6 would be what I'd get. My mate's parents have a Tribute V6 Luxury, its a really nice soft-roader, though they look better as Escape's IMO.

Ummm tow a car, on a multi axled trailor behind a high strung 4 cylinder????
I do NOT believe that this would be an ideal move at all.... Lets do a few simple figures here huh. dual axled trailor with brakes = 6-700kg. towing capacity of liberty 1400. That means vehicle to be towed + spares can't exceend 700-800kg. That's one VERY light escort by itself even without the spares/tools.

Timmeh · 19-10-2005, 10:48 PM

If I buy a Falcon, it would have to be a Mk II, I think... and I would have to dirve the exact vehicle I am purchasing to be sure in my mind that it was problem free from the outset (we ordered our last BA and that was a bad mistake).

I'm coming around to the idea, I'll look at them tomorrow, but I have this really bad gut feeling about it.

Steffo, I appreciate your post and advice mate, but not sure a 115kw four cylinder will cope.

Tim

Smoke Pursuit · 19-10-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmeh

If I buy a Falcon, it would have to be a Mk II, I think... and I would have to dirve the exact vehicle I am purchasing to be sure in my mind that it was problem free from the outset (we ordered our last BA and that was a bad mistake).

I'm coming around to the idea, I'll look at them tomorrow, but I have this really bad gut feeling about it.

Steffo, I appreciate your post and advice mate, but not sure a 115kw four cylinder will cope.

Tim

Go to your local dealer, have a look at their used stock and go from there.

Anything built after June 04 Should be fine mate, they fixed alot of the problems up at this stage. If you do end up finding one and taking it for a spin and your happy, then ask the dealer (if they serviced it) to provide you with a full history on it.

For the money your looking at spending its really the best option, your getting a car with 2 years Factory warranty plus they are comfortible and will do the job for you.

turboute · 19-10-2005, 11:20 PM

How much are subaru Outbacks going for? at least they have a 6 cyl.

Homer · 19-10-2005, 11:49 PM

I drove an Escape XLT once for an hour or so (loaner car) and thought it was great.
It actually went well of the mark (until it changed into second gear...) and was nice and easy to drive. Overall I enjoyed driving it and would recommend one, though I think from memory the Mazda supposedly has a better suspension tune.

If I was looking at that kind of car I would have one of those near the top of my list. Only thing that would put me off is the price of parts being a Mazda.