Next Falcon to be european sourced/designed?

marcosambrose · 26-04-2006, 10:22 PM

This is purely speculative - Is the next Falcon going to be a rebadged Ford Mondeo due for release in late 2007 in europe?

Would seem feasible, the New Mondeo will feature:

2.3L 4cyl
3.0L 6cyl
3.5L 6cyl (350bhp)
plus - enough room in for a shoehorned V8

in addition to this - AWD/RWD and multiple diesel engines.

Remember, the brits drive on the left, so we can build them here too.

**ebxr8240** · 26-04-2006, 10:27 PM

I think decent diesel engines will do real well here..
MUST be REAR wheel drive !!!!!

**Peuty** · 26-04-2006, 10:30 PM

In all honesty....I highly doubt it.

flappist · 26-04-2006, 10:34 PM

Nup..............

marcosambrose · 26-04-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Nup..............

I'd like to beleive similar but with petrol prices only going vertical, a joint-collaboration between Ford Europe and Ford Oz could make an "Australian Mondeo".

Besides, have you heard or seen any details on the next gen falcon? its pretty hush hush at the moment dont you think?

By 2008 petrol will be 1.70-1.90 in Australia, and if Holden are selling 3.6L V6's as base engines, and ford have 2.3L 4cyl in a car that is only slightly smaller - which one will the australian public choose?

Bossxr8 · 26-04-2006, 10:39 PM

It will still be a unique platform, but it may share some design elements with the Mondeo. There will be no parts shared between them.

mickey t · 26-04-2006, 10:40 PM

not going to happen.

falcon is deep into its development phase now. very deep.

and expect it to be a slightly bigger car than the current one, too...

on the mondeo, though, Ford Oz is under some pressure to bring it back to Australia. dunno why. do they never learn???

Danny · 26-04-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickey t

not going to happen.

falcon is deep into its development phase now. very deep.

and expect it to be a slightly bigger car than the current one, too...

on the mondeo, though, Ford Oz is under some pressure to bring it back to Australia. dunno why. do they never learn???

^ Isn't he they guy from Motor Mag, If so, then I beleive what he says... :Reverend: Because I want to beleive that Falcon will continue as is is, and as it should be, that is: A 6 cyl aussie family car with fast sporty variants, and NO 4cylinder models...

marcosambrose · 26-04-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

^ Isn't he they guy from Motor Mag, If so, then I beleive what he says... :Reverend: Because I want to beleive that Falcon will continue as is is, and as it should be, that is: A 6 cyl aussie family car with fast sporty variants, and NO 4cylinder models...

Yeah - and i want to see Ford's Falcon sales decline even more.

Not critisizing you, just using your statement as an example, Australians need a relality check, petrol isnt getting cheaper, so we have to downsize our family sedans and engines in the next 5 years otherwise the japanese cars will take over.

MeestaNob! · 27-04-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickey t

not going to happen.

falcon is deep into its development phase now. very deep.

and expect it to be a slightly bigger car than the current one, too...

on the mondeo, though, Ford Oz is under some pressure to bring it back to Australia. dunno why. do they never learn???

Can you give us a little something more to go on regarding the Falcon, something, ANYTHING! Have you seen it? Thumbs up or down? Any suprises you can at least hint at?

Re: the Mondeo, who is applying the pressure to get it here, punters or executives (and from where, US/Europe or here in Australia)?

WILDTRAKPX2 · 27-04-2006, 05:09 PM

For anyone interested... read all about the landboat that is the Mondeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mondeo

An amusing extract:

Some years back, Ford claimed the Mondeo was a "world car", but in a letter to Autocar Magazine in the UK, a Ford dealer retorted "What world was it designed for?"

Dezza · 26-04-2006, 10:36 PM

No. Ford has looked at this a number of times before (as well as the american Taurus), and has decided it wouldn't be a smart move.

Poetic Justice · 26-04-2006, 10:43 PM

As a Falcon dont think so.

But as another mondeo i sure hope so, that thing is HOT!

**Polyal** · 26-04-2006, 10:49 PM

It wont happen...but I wouldn't be complaining if we stole the chassis/body nd did our own drivetrains.

I think it will/should happen one day, but not the next falcon, no way in hell.

MrSparkle · 26-04-2006, 10:55 PM

Next Falcon is it's own device. The Mondeos have been getting pretty good of late though, and it would be nice if we could get them over here for reasonable $$$. Not going to happen though.

Well one thing is for sure, Ford is gonna have to do something different with future Falcons to get people shopping for big cars again. At the current rate, by 2009 nobody will be interested! (Except the parochial and logic-impaired). Hell, even fleets are changing their habits now - and that is a catalyst if ever there was one. It will be interesting to see how Ford AU react to the change in the market with the local products - I'm tipping it will be a firm "head in sand" exercise, which is what they (and Holden above all others) do best. World class, in fact.

Mark351 · 26-04-2006, 11:05 PM

But marcosambrose, you need the reality check. The reality is, the time it takes to design from sketch, to computer models, to clay, to prototypes, to testing, to crashing modelling in US-based supercomputers, etc etc takes YEARS to do. They can make running changes as they go, but essentially, once it's signed off, that's what it is. The new Falcon is supposed to have Ford DNA in it according to recent intees with messers Mays and Strong (the latter recently replaced Simon Butterworth, who replaced him during the BA/Terri design phases), so expect it to look similar to the Mondeo above (and the Iosis concept car) - or some other Ford in the family (hopefully not the US 500...)

Ford got a great big grant from the government to R&D improvement to the I6 (so abandon all ye who thinks we'll go V6 or something...) and I imagine most of that would be in the field of fuel economy - because Tom himself said so recently... Read the interviews with the people involved, and you get bits and pieces of information about the new Falcon - instead of making stuff up.

blutura · 26-04-2006, 11:17 PM

true, but the average income is also higher there.

and they weren't just talking about the Monaros size in relation to narrow streets, they said it was big in general (presumably in comparision to the average car in the UK, which is the Focus/Astra/Golf size.

In any case, I wasn't saying that I agree with 'marcusambrose's' comments that the next falcon may be a slightly modified Mondeo, I was agreeing that most people who own Falcons (And I'm one of them) don't NEED a car of its size, its just that we don't want to drive small FWD cars.

I stand by my comment, that if Ford offered a Mondeo with RWD and choice of n/a 4, turbo 4 or V6 engines, and FPV offered a turbo 6 version, then that would suit most of us more than a big Falcon.

marcosambrose · 26-04-2006, 11:17 PM

DeathXR, my very first post, the first very line, i stated its purely speculative.

to be honest id prefer an australian built and designed falcon, but at the moment, the europeans are doing it best.

Mark351 · 26-04-2006, 11:22 PM

Yes, but I was referring to your posts thus far as a whole. Sure, details on the new Falcon are sketchy, but read the Motors, the Wheels, the GoAutos etc and you can gleam lots of information that reveal posibilities without actually stating in black and white what it is.

marcosambrose · 26-04-2006, 11:24 PM

Thats okay, maybe the next falcon will be australian, but after that - id put my money on a re-engineered mondeo, globalised models (Mazda 3-Focus-Volvo S40) are all the craze because the reduced costs involved in designed and sustaining those models.

WILDTRAKPX2 · 27-04-2006, 09:17 AM

No way.

chevypower · 27-04-2006, 09:27 AM

Many small 4 cyls use about 9-10L per 100km on average, a Falcon uses around 11.5? That's not a big difference, why would you want to sacrifice, size, comfort, power for a tiny saving? They need to run the things on renewable fuel sources no matter what sort of car it is.
Smaller, lighter car with smaller engines was the answer of the 70s oil crisis, hopefully we have stepped up since then

XplosiveR6 · 27-04-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Many small 4 cyls use about 9-10L per 100km on average, a Falcon uses around 11.5? That's not a big difference, why would you want to sacrifice, size, comfort, power for a tiny saving? They need to run the things on renewable fuel sources no matter what sort of car it is.
Smaller, lighter car with smaller engines was the answer of the 70s oil crisis, hopefully we have stepped up since then

well said, your spot on, most of the larger 4cy, eg 2.0l are not that great of fuel considering their lack of size and power.

ethenal is the answer, as soon as we are able to run our cars on ethanol the better, its renewable, very low emmssions, and it doesnt get charged at the global fuel price

Redrum · 27-04-2006, 04:39 PM

No, new falcon is not Euro sourced.

flappist · 27-04-2006, 12:18 PM

marcosambrose, you really have lost the plot here.

Petrol @ $2.00/litre will NOT stop australian people wanting big rear wheel drive high powered cars.
It is about as relavent and cigarettes at $15 a packet or drinks at $8 each in clubs.

Do you know anyone who has stopped smoking or drinking only because of price?

Sales of V8s and T6s are getting stronger and stronger. If it were going the other way then I would be a bit worried.
Holden have introduced a 6 litre engine accross the range, do you really think they would do that without spending $zillions on market research?

Just because YOU want to buy (and I have owned one so I know first hand) the WORLDS LEAST PERFORMANCE ORIENTATED VEHICLE, the Mondeo, does not mean the rest of Australia does. We voted with our money and the Mondeo/Cougar became extinct.
My wife's Mondeo used to get beaten at traffic light Grand Prix by kids on skateboards, little old ladies on mobility scooters and accellerated only slightly quicker than trees.
It handled like a besa block on stilts and stopped like a marble on glass.
It was quite nice inside and had LOTS of airbags etc and accoring to my wife was cute and a nice colour hence why we bought it.
Yes it used bugger all petrol but that was partly because it was hardly ever driven because I hated it.

Ford dropped the V8 in the last petrol crisis and it hurt them badly, I suspect it won't happen again.

marcosambrose · 27-04-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

marcosambrose, you really have lost the plot here.

Petrol @ $2.00/litre will NOT stop australian people wanting big rear wheel drive high powered cars.
It is about as relavent and cigarettes at $15 a packet or drinks at $8 each in clubs.

Do you know anyone who has stopped smoking or drinking only because of price?

Sales of V8s and T6s are getting stronger and stronger. If it were going the other way then I would be a bit worried.
Holden have introduced a 6 litre engine accross the range, do you really think they would do that without spending $zillions on market research?

Just because YOU want to buy (and I have owned one so I know first hand) the WORLDS LEAST PERFORMANCE ORIENTATED VEHICLE, the Mondeo, does not mean the rest of Australia does. We voted with our money and the Mondeo/Cougar became extinct.
My wife's Mondeo used to get beaten at traffic light Grand Prix by kids on skateboards, little old ladies on mobility scooters and accellerated only slightly quicker than trees.
It handled like a besa block on stilts and stopped like a marble on glass.
It was quite nice inside and had LOTS of airbags etc and accoring to my wife was cute and a nice colour hence why we bought it.
Yes it used bugger all petrol but that was partly because it was hardly ever driven because I hated it.

Ford dropped the V8 in the last petrol crisis and it hurt them badly, I suspect it won't happen again.

And why are the fleets dropping the Falcons and Commodores?

Fuel Efficiency.

And what counts for half of falcon's sales? Fleet.

Go Figure.

flappist · 27-04-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

And why are the fleets dropping the Falcons and Commodores?

Fuel Efficiency.

And what counts for half of falcon's sales? Fleet.

Go Figure.

Yeh all the fleet vehicles I see are not falcons or commodores except for....

Telstra, Police, State Gov, Fed Gov, Council, actually ALL the fleet vehicles are falcs and commies.

Maybe it is the rental market, a couple of weeks ago at Tulla, choice of falc, fairlane, commie, statesman (which is what I got, what a BOAT).

Who said the fleets are going away from falcadores anyway? Some journo or is it just your personal oppinion?

WILDTRAKPX2 · 27-04-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

And why are the fleets dropping the Falcons and Commodores?

Fuel Efficiency.

And what counts for half of falcon's sales? Fleet.

Go Figure.

Totally wrong.

Yes, the BASE model Falcons and Commodore fleet sales have dropped. Because of fuel?? No.

The level of expertise among fleet managers and fleet buyers has changed/improved and they are now effectively future traders for cars. They recommend that their clients diversify their portfolio (the types of cars in their fleet) so that the fleet company doesn't get stuck with 1000 white Commodores and Falcons to sell at auction time. Used large and medium 4WDs, medium-sized cars, 6 cylinder sports such as the Falcon XR6 and luxury models are an added attraction to private buyers than just base model Falcon or Commodore.

Some more fleet sales facts:

The growth in business employees who can have any car they want provided it costs the same as the Falcon or Commodore to which they're entitled. And guess what? Fewer are opting for the base Commoders and Falcons.

The reduction in 'short-cycling'. In years gone by many company and government fleet buyers (such as local councils) would replace their cars, say, every six to nine months and then sell them back to the local dealer.

It worked well when resale values were strong but with weak resale values it's less viable, so many fleets are holding onto their cars for longer. The NSW police, for example, now runs its cars to 60,000km instead of 40,000km.

NOT fuel related.

Iphido · 27-04-2006, 02:29 PM

BF 6 speed auto 6 cylinder has a combined cycle of 10.2
The 3.0L V6 Mondeo 6 speed manual has a combined cycle of 10.3-10.4
The 2.5L Auto has a rating of 10.2 and 0-100 kmph in 10.4 seconds!!

That alone would rule out the Mondeo. However they have a nice diesel that gets 6.1. IMHO its only the diesel that would sell.

The new falcon is only months away now. I would expect to see wheel base grow ~ 40mm for more interior comfort and to better compete as a all in one model (no LWB). Lighter, roomier, faster, quieter, more economical, new style outside and inside, new technology and a 5 star accident rating.

By now tooling should just about be complete. Any spy shots yet?

Bossxr8 · 29-04-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphido

The new falcon is only months away now. I would expect to see wheel base grow ~ 40mm for more interior comfort and to better compete as a all in one model (no LWB). Lighter, roomier, faster, quieter, more economical, new style outside and inside, new technology and a 5 star accident rating.

By now tooling should just about be complete. Any spy shots yet?

Only months away? Your info source must have no clue. Its a 2008 model. Scott Strong hasn't even finished the styling yet let alone a pre production mule. You wouldn't expect to see spy shots for at least another year.