Building a Brick Garage

Pursuit250 · 16-07-2006, 04:31 PM

I figure there should be a few poeple on here that have built a brick garage so what better place to ask a few questions. The reason I'm going brick is that it will look a bit better and last a lot longer (I'm planning on dying in this house).

As I have a bit of room to spare in the back yard I was hoping to build a 8m (depth) x 10m (width), giving me room for two cars and a whole bay for a workshop. Now my questions are:

1) Is a 4" slap thick enough or should I go for a 5" slap?

2) Does 5000 bricks sound about right for such a sized job?

3) What would be a good estimate for such a job?

4) Am I going too big (or too small)?

5) Any tips you may have?

And another thing, I'm still tossing up whether to have a concrete driveway (stenciled) or hot mix. What are people experiences with driveways, i.e. costs per sqm, maintenance costs, etc.

Cheers.

dan.76 · 16-07-2006, 05:14 PM

cant give any specific advice but im in the process of putting a pergola on the back of my house and was tossing up on size . i ended up going the full width of the house by 6m deep and its awesome , so my two cents is go as big as you can afford, youll never regret having too much under cover space

cheers dan

Xrsick · 16-07-2006, 05:25 PM

you'll need approx 55 bricks per M2 of wall and 4in 100mm slab is Ok for garage I would suggest you build on a footing and pour the garage floor after the garage is competed. I also suggest you go for a Black color if you intend to have colored concrete floor and seal it as it helps keep it clean and the only problem i see is being 10mts wide might be serious roofing costs! 8x8 is heaps for 2 car width remembering 6mts is aboout the biggest you can go in a one piece roller door.Pricing is only a guess at this stage as it will be determined by the products you decide on ,hope to have helped
Frank

Pursuit250 · 16-07-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

go as big as you can afford, youll never regret having too much under cover space

Are you suggesting 8m x 10m isn't big enough :hihi:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xrsick

I would suggest you build on a footing and pour the garage floor after the garage is competed. I also suggest you go for a Black color if you intend to have colored concrete floor ans seal it as it helps keep it clean and the only problem i see is being 10mts wide might be serious roofing costs! 8x8 is heaps for 2 car width remembering 6mts is aboout the biggest you can go in a one piece roller door.

Cheers Frank. What's the benefit of building the garage first and then pouring the concrete second? Never really considered this. As for the width, I want the extra couple of metres for the workshop and therefore the roller door will only need to be 6m (or whatever you can get) for the two cars. Additionally, I'm intending on doing a flat type tin room and having steal beams running across. Not sure what the spacing would need to be for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by protd

when you say bricks are you talking about the 210mmx76mmx76mm bricks or the 400x200x200 blocks and what height do you plan for the ceiling (ie the standard 2400mm)...i'm not sure on costs of building materials where you are though

Common house bricks (210mmx76mmx76m) and 2400mm would be the minimum height. Probably go to 3000mm, or thereabouts, just for some extra clearance (especially considering the roller door). I'm building in Canberra.

Xrsick · 16-07-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuit250

Are you suggesting 8m x 10m isn't big enough :hihi:

Cheers Frank. What's the benefit of building the garage first and then pouring the concrete second? Never really considered this. As for the width, I want the extra couple of metres for the workshop and therefore the roller door will only need to be 6m (or whatever you can get) for the two cars. Additionally, I'm intending on doing a flat type tin room and having steal beams running across. Not sure what the spacing would need to be for this..

Well i would suggest if you're keeping the width and using a flat metal roof which is not as heavy as a conventional tiled roof then the roof span can be accomodated across it's narrower dimension for eg A beam can be placed across the 8mt central span allowing for the rafters to travel from the front to the back of the building and split into 2x5mt spans(hope i havn't confuse you)Pouring the foundations first is quicker,cheaper and doesn't damage the floor whilst the garage is being built ie dropped bricks and building stains. Pouring the floor after the garage is up allows the concretors to do a better job under cover from the elemnts and if prefered color can be added the mix to give the floor a better look cheers
Frank

protd · 16-07-2006, 05:27 PM

i'm a builder mate.. 4" is big enough for a slab
when you say bricks are you talking about the 210mmx76mmx76mm bricks or the 400x200x200 blocks and what height do you plan for the ceiling (ie the standard 2400mm)
cost is relative to windows doors roof style and materials how many roller doors etc.. cant really be accurate on that without plans..
i'm not sure on costs of building materials where you are though

protd · 16-07-2006, 06:26 PM

you will need about 7500 of those bricks for a single venere for a 8x10x3m shed.. minus windows,doors and roller door openings so 5000 could do it for you.. once again really need some sort of plan to be accurate.. concrete up here is about 160sqm plus whatever a concreter charges to lay it not sure on that i do it myself.. for a shed get some beers and mates and do it yourself save a bit that way.. for your drive pay someone as it is seen..

**Full Noise** · 16-07-2006, 06:31 PM

In Canberra, plan to kiss goodbye to about 25 grand.

Interceptor · 16-07-2006, 08:34 PM

dont know about down there, but a m8 of mine got quotes on his driveway recently, and hotmix is gonna be a LOT cheaper than concrete

MO · 16-07-2006, 08:50 PM

Get someone in to give you a quote and don't forget council permits and plans and approval these last three can be around 2k

cedric · 16-07-2006, 08:57 PM

i would go 8 by 12 or 7 by 12 so you can fit 4 cars,boats ,trailers etc.what ever you spend on property is money well spent and will increase you home by same amount you spend. i am a builder too and price wise ,how long is a piece of string there are just so many varaibles

Pursuit250 · 16-07-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xrsick

A beam can be placed across the 8mt central span allowing for the rafters to travel from the front to the back of the building and split into 2x5mt spans(hope i havn't confuse you)

That sounds OK. I was thinking that since I'm doing single brick, I'll need to do some double brick pillars for extra support for the steal beams. I'm also a little worried how much a 6m roller door weighs and what kind of support you have to provide for one of these. I'm certainly not interested in having two roller doors with a pillar in between, that's just annoying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intercetpor

a m8 of mine got quotes on his driveway recently, and hotmix is gonna be a LOT cheaper than concrete

That's interesting, I'm hearing conflicting stories about the cost of hot mix. Some are saying it is more expensive. Need to get to the bottom of this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

....and don't forget council permits and plans and approval these last three can be around 2k

Why does this surprise me. I'm sure there will be a few weeks delay for my 2k worth too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedric

i would go 8 by 12 or 7 by 12 so you can fit 4 cars,boats ,trailers etc.what ever you spend on property is money well spent and will increase you home by same amount you spend.

Only if I could convince the other half to go for the 8 x 12 option. She too some convincing on 8 x 10. On that point, considering that I'll be going 10m wide, do you think I'll need 8m deep? I don't won't to be nudging up to the front of the garage to get the back end in.

schmidty · 17-07-2006, 01:20 AM

This is an easy job thats going to end up complicated if you're not careful what you listen to.

A 4 inch slab IS NOT suitable to build off. A 4 inchl slab is suitable to park on or walk on, not to support a structure such as this. It'll need to be engineered with the correct beams designed in the slab to make sure it doesnt break its back, and you'll at the very least need a footing around the outside to take the weight of your brick work and roof load or it WILL break its back and crack. It'll need some good steel in it if you intend to work on ars in there. A while ago there was a guy who had a house built by a big volume builder Not much care was taken in his garage slab. Had the car on a jack and was working under it when the jack punched through the slab, dropping the car on him and killing him.

As mentioned you will need to allow for 55 bricks per square meter but thats only if you're doing brick veneer. So in that case you'd have to have a stud wall supporting your roof load, with the brickwork just a cladding really on the outside. You are much better off on a garage to Use bricks and engaged peirs. Instead of having a wall inside you might just have a peir ever 1800mm abd either side of expansion joints that stops say 2 brick courses lower than the wall, then ru a timber beam on top of the peirs for your roof to sit on. Or you can match the pitch of your house. EASY! Trusses will still be cheaper than using say big laminated beams or steel.

You should be able to get bricks for between $300 and $500 per thousand unless you're trying to match some of the higher end colours. Bricklayers you should get fo about $700 - $750 per thousand with them supplying sand, cement, ties, hoop iron and joint tape. You'll have to buy your steel lintels for openings on top of that.

Also you can easily achieve an 8m, 10m or even bigger span with roof trusses. No intermediate beams or any other waste of time needed. If you want a flat roof they can make you a truss thats almost a paralell chord truss, with say just a 1 degee pitch on it for your fall. If u put tray dek on the roof you'll only need 1 degree. If u use normal corrugated you'll need 3 degrees.

With a roller door, once you go over 4800mm wide in a single door they get very expensive as they make them out of heavier guage material. For a 10m wide garage 2 x 4.8m doors are perfect. Youll have a couple of bricks each side with a couple of bricks in the middle of the 2 doors. Nice and symetrical. Also from memory once a roller door goes over 2.4m high they cost extra.

Also you'll need a pretty good size T bar lintel over the top of your door to carry the brickwork, and any wider, you'll be paying a lot for heavy enough steel too.

When determining your inside ceiling height that you require, make sure you remember you'll lose 300 - 400mm in your door opening hieght if u go a roller door due to the depth of the actual roll on the door.

As far as your plans go, you'll be able to find someone to draw it cheap because it's so simple. But you'll also most likely need to take the plans to an engineer and get them to draw an engineers plan for the slab design and also the expansion joints in the brickwork and maybe peir locations and spacings. Plus your permits and fees, blah blah blah.

8m is a great depth, because it allows you to get a car in, and still have 2 - 4m in front of the car as a workshop or storage space. So theoretiacally you could get 4 cars in, plus all of your tools, motorbikes, boxes, whatever. I parked in a mates garage tonight and with my towbar touching the back brick wall, i had 2 inches to spare at the front with the door shut. Waste of space! You'll never regret going big with a garage.

Coloured concrete looks good. Just put the colour on top and trowell it in though. Loks better, and is heaps cheaper than colouring the whole mix! Bags of colour are about $22 bucks and to do the surface of a slab that size you'd need around 14 20kg bags.

Its a very simple straight forward construction if its done smartly.

I'm a builder so deal with this stuff every day.

Best of luck. Talk your missus into the big 1 and then tell her she'll be allowed to park in there!

nugget378 · 17-07-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

Coloured concrete looks good. Just put the colour on top and trowell it in though. Loks better, and is heaps cheaper than colouring the whole mix! Bags of colour are about $22 bucks and to do the surface of a slab that size you'd need around 14 20kg bags.

Doing it like this will result in the oxide lifting off the concrete.
The way to do itis to mix equal parts washed course river sand and neat cement, to this you add the oxide(about 1 cupfull more or less to every wheelbarrow of river sand/cement mix remember it goes darker when it dries) and after it is thoroughly mixed spread it across the concrete (which should be already floated and starting to stiffen)
Then float it in with a wood or steel float, you will be able to tell when it starts binding.A wood float is better and can be finished with a steel float after wards.
A 20kg bag of oxide will be just about enough to do the lot,certainly no more than 2.
I used to repair service stations and had the oxide lift on me a few times till I was taught this method, guaranteed not to lift.

schmidty · 18-07-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Doing it like this will result in the oxide lifting off the concrete.
The way to do itis to mix equal parts washed course river sand and neat cement, to this you add the oxide(about 1 cupfull more or less to every wheelbarrow of river sand/cement mix remember it goes darker when it dries) and after it is thoroughly mixed spread it across the concrete (which should be already floated and starting to stiffen)
Then float it in with a wood or steel float, you will be able to tell when it starts binding.A wood float is better and can be finished with a steel float after wards.
A 20kg bag of oxide will be just about enough to do the lot,certainly no more than 2.
I used to repair service stations and had the oxide lift on me a few times till I was taught this method, guaranteed not to lift.

I wasnt using straight oxide. just did my own driveway myself with Fauxtex. Its much more uniform in the colour and finish than using riversand, cement and oxide as it comes in bags off the shelf so you're not batching it up yourself in a barrow. It gives a more durable surface than standard concrete, and if you bust a corner off a path or driveway you'll see the colour penetrates in about 10mm, meaning it wont wear off or fade if it is applied liberally and trowelled in correctly, sand a uv staibilising sealant applied afterwards meant is isnt affected by uv exposure and oil doesnt soak into it and stain it. All you do is throw an even layer of i over the concrete, bull float it, throw some more on to cover any areas that need some more, and trowel it in hard and to your desired finish. everyone has their own way of doing things i guess. This was just mine.

http://www.dectech.com.au/Files/fauxtexfaq.htm

In general, as far as the garage goes, Like everything, when advice is dished out from people who have experience with using the same basic concept in differing situations, locations and environments, you'll always get a miriad of opinions and techniques, at the end of the day, do your home work on what works for you, crunch the numbers, and go with what works for yourself. 1 way insn't necessarily any better or worse than the other, its just a case of i know what works for me, and what i do every day, what is profitable, and what will last so thats what i sugested and recommended. Same as everyone else has their idea of what works for them.

Best of luck with the garage. You'll be the envy of your neighbours by the look of it!

Cheers, Ben

Pursuit250 · 17-07-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

For a 10m wide garage 2 x 4.8m doors are perfect. Youll have a couple of bricks each side with a couple of bricks in the middle of the 2 doors. Nice and symetrical. Also from memory once a roller door goes over 2.4m high they cost extra.

When determining your inside ceiling height that you require, make sure you remember you'll lose 300 - 400mm in your door opening hieght if u go a roller door due to the depth of the actual roll on the door.

Talk your missus into the big 1 and then tell her she'll be allowed to park in there!

If the 6m roller doors are going to be expensive and I have to go two doors then I probably won't need to go as wide as 4.8m. 4m will be more than enough and the money I save on width I can spend on height. I want to keep as much height as possible because I want to be able to lift the hard cover inside, and walk into the garage not having to worry about hitting my head on the roller door, etc.

The amount of interest the missus is showing in this project at the moment I think I should be able to get the plans for the BIG ONE drafted and approved before the questions even start getting asked. At that point I just need to get the slab down and there is no turning back...I hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Are you have gable or hip roof? That will also need to be considered in your cost.

Are you building on the boundary?

Are you allowing for a window and a PA door to the garage? I assume so.

Have you enquired with the council reagrding site coverage and remaining private open space?

I'm going a flat roof. Since I won't be tiling the roof to match the house I don't think there is any need for a gable or hip roof.

Actually I will be building on a boundary. Having said that I don't share a fence with anyone, just a walkway so that might free a few things up for me (need to ask that question from the council). While on this, I will need to build a retaining wall as the block has a bit of downwards slope from back to front. I am wondering if you can have a retaining wall as a footing? Even if I use building blocks for my retaining wall and fill them full of concrete, will that get by. Probably a good question for the engineer.

I intend on having a entrance door and window. The intended layout of the garage will be something like the attached. Sorry if I offend any draftsman with this

:

I haven't made any enquiries with the council at this stage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonk

"(I'm planning on dying in this house)"

You know, I wouldn't go down the 'too much detail' path if I were you.

Next thing, you'll be telling us all about the wonderful exposed ceiling beams inside your house...

Then you'll request if there are any 'rope experts' on the forum... that your not interested anymore in brick sh**houses blah blah.

Haha, good pick up. Don't worry, I have no intensions of going there.

Xrsick · 17-07-2006, 02:15 PM

No one has mentioned building off a 4 inch slab What is stated is that an infill garage slab poured at 4inch thick is more than ample for a garage floor,A footing around the perimeter has already been stated and a brick garage only needs a single skin plus piers! I'm sure he is doing his home work and not listenening just to us!
The guy that was crushed by a trolley jack was on waffle pod with 3in concrete top over Polystyrene and trying to jack up a F150 was asking for trouble.A 4in slab on ground is total different ball game and is solely for driving or parking on but not to construct on!

EXECJIM · 17-07-2006, 03:24 PM

If you have the room, make it bigger

:
If i had my way again, i would add more but it is too late for me

e
Make it so you can fit 4 cars in without banging doors ect.

Going back a few years it was about $1.00 per brick to buy and lay? it may have gone up a bit now?

4 inch concrete is strong enough for you garage floor.

Jim

schmidty · 17-07-2006, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xrsick

No one has mentioned building off a 4 inch slab What is stated is that an infill garage slab poured at 4inch thick is more than ample for a garage floor,A footing around the perimeter has already been stated and a brick garage only needs a single skin plus piers! I'm sure he is doing his home work and not listenening just to us!
The guy that was crushed by a trolley jack was on waffle pod with 3in concrete top over Polystyrene and trying to jack up a F150 was asking for trouble.A 4in slab on ground is total different ball game and is solely for driving or parking on but not to construct on!

All the first post said is a 4 inch slab thick enough or should he use a 5 inch slab! Just trying to ensure nothing was built on a bare 4 inch slab! And if you're happy to build on a perimeter strip footing, fine. Personally i prefer the extra strength of a slab thats desgned with the stiffening beams and all poured in 1 than an infill slab. Both will work, but i know if i was going to the trouble and expense of building a a garage such as this, with a 12m roof span and looking pretty shmicko, i know what i'd be building.
Also i was aware that it had been stated it was a single skin plus engaged piers, and i was simply stating that 55 bricks per square m isnt enough for the wall and piers! 55 per m is for veneer.

Xrsick · 18-07-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

All the first post said is a 4 inch slab thick enough or should he use a 5 inch slab! Just trying to ensure nothing was built on a bare 4 inch slab! And if you're happy to build on a perimeter strip footing, fine. Personally i prefer the extra strength of a slab thats desgned with the stiffening beams and all poured in 1 than an infill slab. Both will work, but i know if i was going to the trouble and expense of building a a garage such as this, with a 12m roof span and looking pretty shmicko, i know what i'd be building.

I hear were you coming from but there is huge difference in price in what you have quoted as to my opinion. Havin been ivolved for 30 years in this industry i can tell you the cost factor is double if i were quoting the 2 building techniques.Just to drive your car on I would save the extra expenses and go bigger if i had the loot to throw away :hihi: cheers
Frank

tickford2001 · 18-07-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

All the first post said is a 4 inch slab thick enough or should he use a 5 inch slab! Just trying to ensure nothing was built on a bare 4 inch slab! And if you're happy to build on a perimeter strip footing, fine. Personally i prefer the extra strength of a slab thats desgned with the stiffening beams and all poured in 1 than an infill slab. Both will work, but i know if i was going to the trouble and expense of building a a garage such as this, with a 12m roof span and looking pretty shmicko, i know what i'd be building

Another thing for him to consider before deciding on a 4/5 inch infill (WITH STRIP FOOTINGS!) or stiffened raft slab is the type of soil its sitting on. Im not familiar with the soils in his area, but its something he needs to find out before an infill is decided on, as in some reactive clays an infill wont be strong enough.

There are pros and cons to both style slabs, and most of it depends on the type of ground youre working with (as the builders here will be aware of no doubt).

Pursuit, you will probably be required to get a soil test for this project, so may pay to factor that into the price. Not sure what the going rate in your area is sorry.

Cheers,
Dave

blueoval · 17-07-2006, 03:53 PM

If you want some more proffesional advice, I am an architectural drafter in SA and can provide you with any questions regarding the building codes and council regulations.

Also not to be picky schmidty but corrugated iron can only have a minimum of 5 degree pitch according to the Lysaght steel referee. Everything else you have mentioned I tend to agree with you.

Cheapest form of construction has already been mentioned:

single leaf b/w with engaged piers, timber pitching beam and timber trusses with iron roof over. Width to your selection but musnt exceed 12m unless you want to pay big. Slabs just leave it to the engineer to work out instead of guessing.

Are you have gable or hip roof? That will also need to be considered in your cost.

Are you building on the boundary?

Are you allowing for a window and a PA door to the garage? I assume so.

Have you enquired with the council reagrding site coverage and remaining private open space?

jd dad · 17-07-2006, 05:27 PM

Does anyone know what the difference would be between buying/laying normal housebricks compared to the large grey bricks? Contemplating building a garage as well but want to go to the boundary which means brick for fire rating etc

jonk · 17-07-2006, 05:36 PM

"(I'm planning on dying in this house)"

You know, I wouldn't go down the 'too much detail' path if I were you.

Next thing, you'll be telling us all about the wonderful exposed ceiling beams inside your house...

Then you'll request if there are any 'rope experts' on the forum... that your not interested anymore in brick sh**houses blah blah.

MO · 17-07-2006, 08:14 PM

Don't forget to cost in the power and water if you need water to the shed.

MO · 17-07-2006, 09:39 PM

OK withn your twin roller door...look at a removable centre.

Xrsick · 18-07-2006, 01:27 PM

Mate it's only a garage! Garage floors can be put on anything you want to put it on and is not an inspection requirement.The strip footings or raft slab is a diffrent matter! If there is house there already all the soil testing would have been done initially! As already mentioned this can be a simple procedure that can get out of hand!

tickford2001 · 18-07-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xrsick

...Garage floors can be put on anything you want to put it on...

just depends on whether he wants it to work or not.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xrsick

Mate it's only a garage! Garage floors can be put on anything you want to put it on and is not an inspection requirement.The strip footings or raft slab is a diffrent matter! If there is house there already all the soil testing would have been done initially! As already mentioned this can be a simple procedure that can get out of hand!

just because there is a house there doesnt mean there is a soil test either! im not saying he has to get a soil test done, but the council may require it if he is going to need a permit etc. which id say he will. Depends on the council really and how anal they are. I was just making him aware of things that he could be up for...

i wouldnt go saying its "just a garage" either, its no tin shed, its actually a fairly decent sort of garage thats going to be built by the sounds of it, in both size and $$, and he wants it done right understandably.

dont get me wrong, im all for doing things the easiest and most economical way (as long as it works of course...doing things twice isnt very easy or economical...!)

schmidty · 18-07-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tickford2001

just depends on whether he wants it to work or not.........

i wouldnt go saying its "just a garage" either, its no tin shed, its actually a fairly decent sort of garage thats going to be built by the sounds of it, in both size and $$, and he wants it done right understandably.

dont get me wrong, im all for doing things the easiest and most economical way (as long as it works of course...doing things twice isnt very easy or economical...!)

Exactly where i look at it from. If i reccommend anything, or build anything i do it the BEST way, not the cheap way. U learn when dealing with a broad spectrum of clients that there are going to be those who want it done cheap, and those who want it done once, right, and the best way. As you say, this is no tin shed, and i dont see something of this scale as just a garage. If someone is serious enough to build a garage of this type and size, they are going to want it spot on. Only times i have ever had anything bite me on the a$$ was when you try and do stuff cheap for people, then they whinge that its not a million dollar finish! Now, i'll quote a job and say, this is the way i'll achieve your desired end result, this is what i'll use to do it, and i make no compromise on the materials or the finish. If you want it done cheap and nasty, find a cheap nasty builder.

MO · 18-07-2006, 08:44 PM

So I guess what everyone is saying is ....measure twice cut once!