Automatics

pacemaker1 · 13-01-2007, 03:01 AM

Ok, I know, before anyone starts on me, I only got one because my other half wanted one, but my question is this. Those of you with autos, do you wish you had an extra 1 or 2 gears in the box like the Falcons for that little bit extra get up and go, especially when overtaking.

pertuan · 13-01-2007, 08:20 AM

The only reason why I ended up getting the manual is because the auto box only had 4 gears. Would be great if it was a 6 speed like the Golf.

kenny21 · 13-01-2007, 09:06 AM

the ford 6 speed isnt really 6 speeds there just a couple of extra overdrives

BrisVegas · 13-01-2007, 09:16 AM

I wish the auto was a 6 speed. We were looking at the golf and the auto & extra safety gear almost swayed us to pay the (significant) extra.

The 4 speed is a slug. In the end my wife was happy with the manual for it's zippier performance and we saved the money and got the Zetec.

Piotr · 13-01-2007, 09:31 AM

Kenny its still called a 6 speed. Going with that logic the Fiesta manual is only 3 speed because 4th and 5th are overdrive

Steffo · 14-01-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr

Kenny its still called a 6 speed. Going with that logic the Fiesta manual is only 3 speed because 4th and 5th are overdrive

Actually, the WQ Zetec's 4th gear is 1.11:1. That's definitley not an overdrive gear.

The rest are 0.95:1 in 4th. Which is technically O/D, but ehh...

Deanodriver · 14-01-2007, 04:23 AM

I reckon that 4 speed autos are a little outdated, I mean, my last two cars were 4 speed automatics, from 1988 and 1994, a 2007 model car should be better than that!

I wonder if the Mk3 Focus will have any automated manuals in the vein of the Golf's DSG gearbox, even if just in the higher versions?

Then again, my current car is manual, and my next car probly will be as well, I just don't see the point of buying a small automatic when the manual is not only more fun to drive, but more economical as well.

FRA · 13-01-2007, 01:13 PM

I wish we got a manual to get better km on fuel.
The Focus auto is fine with me, just drop it into 1 and rev it to 6000rpm then 2nd then drive. been doing this for over 2 years and probems so far.
When you have it in Drive and you want a bit more power, your power band starts at 2,500rpm, so just under 2,500rpm is where I floor it and it'll rev hard.
I don't use the overdrive, you only get like 200rpm

eXtremist · 13-01-2007, 09:11 PM

I'm guessing you all have the LR model.

Lagom · 14-01-2007, 12:03 AM

I wish there was a better auto in the Focus for sure.

Shift quality is average, some kickdown situations it's a little sudden, IMHO. According to the brochure there is "Grade Control Logic", however I've never experienced it. The tiptronic function is pretty good though.

My main quibble with the Focus auto is that it only locks up the torque converter during cruise, which leads to a lot of inefficient energy loss via the torque converter during normal driving. Get a lot of flaring in revs when you floor it and much less control than a manual, even in tiptronic mode because the link between the engine and wheels is via fluid.

A Golf's 6 speed would be ideal, actually the Golf 2.0 FSI powertrain would be ideal. Driving a Golf with the 6 speed auto vs the Focus 4 speed auto makes a world of difference. The Golf feels reasonably strong in gears 1-4, whereas the Focus starts to tail off by 2nd.

Golf basically goes noticeably harder and uses less fuel in my experience. Personally I think the Focus auto combined fuel consumption is very hard to achieve, unlike the Golf's. I lay the blame at the feel of the torque converter's programming. During cruise it's far easier to achieve good consumption figures as the torque converter is locked, but in the city, it can be quite disappointing.

Lagom · 14-01-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagom

My main quibble with the Focus auto is that it only locks up the torque converter during cruise, which leads to a lot of inefficient energy loss via the torque converter during normal driving. Get a lot of flaring in revs when you floor it and much less control than a manual, even in tiptronic mode because the link between the engine and wheels is via fluid.

Good example of this is when cruising and you want to pass someone, press the throttle harder and it'll unlock the torque converter and the revs will flare up. Use tiptronic to shift back into third and you get a marginal increase in revs (~100rpm) - why not just downshift back into third, lock the torque converter and reduce the power wastage, rather than lots of 'slippage' in 4th and wasting kinetic energy as heat energy.

eXtremist · 14-01-2007, 01:25 AM

Its actually good if the torque converter is locked, if you are coasting, the injectors will shut off using no petrol, however if the torque converter unlocked, the car will go to idle and will continue injecting fuel to keep the engine running.

In regards to the golf 6spd auto vs focus 4spd auto,
The focus will have lower gear ratios while the golf has longer gear ratios causing it to constantly change gears which will cause the golf transmission to have a shorter life.

Lagom · 14-01-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXtremist

Its actually good if the torque converter is locked, if you are coasting, the injectors will shut off using no petrol, however if the torque converter unlocked, the car will go to idle and will continue injecting fuel to keep the engine running.

I'm saying I like the torque converter locked!

Aside from being kinder to the gearbox fluid, better fuel economy, there's also greater control from the driver's perspective, as there's more of a direct link between engine and wheels. E.g. lift off the throttle (unless, very suddenly and the car holds gear) and the revs will hold at speed, as opposed to just going to idle.

On a twisty road, this is very important to me, especially in terms of adjusting the car's balance through corners via the throttle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXtremist

In regards to the golf 6spd auto vs focus 4spd auto,
The focus will have lower gear ratios while the golf has longer gear ratios causing it to constantly change gears which will cause the golf transmission to have a shorter life.

Actually the Golf has higher and lower ratios than the Focus.

Turning your argument around though, given the Golf is more likely to have the correct ratio, it's arguably less likely to hunt between ratios.

Actually, I'm willing to bet that the Focus actually changes through ratios more than the Golf. Why? When you lift off the throttle in the Focus once rolling beyond a slow pace, it just goes straight into top gear, however the Golf won't go into top gear until ~60km/h.

Further to this, the Golf locks up its torque converter most of the time, unlike the Focus. So the Focus' transmission fluid is arguably going to wear more than the Golf, as its torque converter is slipping most of the time, unless in cruise.

I've driven thousands of kays in Golfs and Focuses, so I speak from experience.

Piotr · 14-01-2007, 03:15 PM

Lagom if you want that level of control buy a manual don't pretend with an auto.

As for the golf, you get what you pay for and the golf is more expensive then the focus and I would expect it to be better. Why don't we complain that the interior isn't up to 7 series BMW standard?

Lagom · 15-01-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr

Lagom if you want that level of control buy a manual don't pretend with an auto.

I drive both.

What I'm saying is that gearbox programming in the Focus forces compromises that need not be there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr

As for the golf, you get what you pay for and the golf is more expensive then the focus and I would expect it to be better.

I wasn't the person to first raise the Golf in this thread

But I just had to respond to the point about the Golf's gearbox more likely to have a shorter life than the Focus'.

FWIW, VW only charge $300 more than Ford for an automatic gearbox.

More revs · 15-01-2007, 09:51 AM

Be thankful it's not like the Renault 4 sp Auto in the Scenic. It's so hooked up with sensors and electronics it makes shift point and shift quality choices on it's own and can do unexpected things.

On the plus side I can't remeber it ever being in the wrong gear.. maybe there's something to it afterall.

eXtremist · 15-01-2007, 10:42 AM

I'm thinking that Lagom's focus is different to mine.

Lagom · 15-01-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXtremist

I'm thinking that Lagom's focus is different to mine.

It's an LS, 06 build.

I've driven almost 20 Focuses, so the traits that this one displays are not unique amongst Focuses.

Guliver_TwiSt · 28-01-2007, 12:08 PM

Yeah I must say, the focus seriously feels like it could do with a 6th gear on the manual... Also my friend who drives a manual zetec just like me, has a totally differnt feel to his clutch than I do... LOL... go ford Quality Assurance!! ;)