Why I wouldn't consider a Holden...

Grobbo · 31-08-2010, 03:51 PM

Was thinking about a Sportwagon, since I like Wagons...

But looking into it a bit, you can't have an Auto SS with an aftermarket exhaust because they drone and vibrate so badly with the AFM that most people just go back to stock, plus the GM auto is generally regarded as pretty awful in general operation...

...and the forums seem to be littered with clutch and shifting issues on the manual versions of these cars...

Over at Ford - the ZF auto is generally regarded as about one hundred times better than the GM auto, and the manual seems to have a nicer action and I haven't heard of heaps of issues with it?

For me I absolutely cannot stand a ***** gearbox - it just kills my enjoyment of the whole car... So, even tho I do like wagons, I've been utterly and completely put off the Holdens now.

Just thought I'd share that with you. :-)

Venomous1 · 31-08-2010, 03:54 PM

True there Auto's are really bad the ZF is like a gift from heaven.

Mr Hardware · 31-08-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

For me I absolutely cannot stand a ***** gearbox - it just kills my enjoyment of the whole car...

This is true. I compared back to back 2007 Subaru Foresters - Auto and Manual. Auto was so completely horrendous it just about wrecked the car - where as the manual was heaps of fun. That being said, it was a very good manual and a very poor auto. A good auto is the best of all however.

prydey · 31-08-2010, 04:05 PM

if we all believed everything we read on the internet, the ba is obviously worse than the ea, the territory is just an accident waiting to happen with wheels flying off left right and centre, falcons are the only cars to have brake shudder etc etc etc

Grobbo · 31-08-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

This is true. I compared back to back 2007 Subaru Foresters - Auto and Manual. Auto was so completely horrendous it just about wrecked the car - where as the manual was heaps of fun. That being said, it was a very good manual and a very poor auto. A good auto is the best of all however.

Mmm well hopefully this doesn't turn into a manual V auto debate but funny you mention the Forester because I like an auto if the engine has some burble - ie a V8 or... a Subie turbo... And the Forester Turbo certainly holds some appeal to me - with the right mods - would be something a bit different and give a few people a scare at the lights... However the archiac 4 speed auto in it is enough to completely put me off. What complete rubbish.
If they update it to the 5 speeder in the new Liberty I may consider it.

Brazen · 31-08-2010, 04:15 PM

I suggest you drive one, the trans wont be as good as a ZF Falcon but then again most cars are not. We all have peculier tastes with transmissions, personally I hate short first gears on any auto, drove a Kluger which would change into second after about 4cm from taking off and it really bugged me.

I have driven a few SV6s and there has been a noticable change in the latter ones I have driven. I dont know what they changed in the box or the electronics but it feels like a different auto to the earlier VEs I have driven, much more decisive and quick to respond.

I havnt driven a manual one lately but I think they got a new box with some update in the last couple of years, may want to check it out.

I have driven a current model auto V8 Caprice and thought the box was beautiful in it, kickdown was smooth and timely, picked gears well, I was very impressed.

With the AFM, I think you just have to find an exhaust that dosnt drone or do what many do and just disable the AFM. I could not be stuffed with the idea of experimenting with exhausts until I got one which wouldnt drone so yeah thats a big negative if people are having problems.

Grobbo · 31-08-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

if we all believed everything we read on the internet, the ba is obviously worse than the ea, the territory is just an accident waiting to happen with wheels flying off left right and centre, falcons are the only cars to have brake shudder etc etc etc

Valid point.

However the AFM/Exhaust thing is extremely well documented - they first discovered it in the US and as yet no one has found a solution...

Every motoring journo out there hates the GM auto...

Granted the clutch and gearbox issues with the manuals is just what I've heard - but geez I've heard about it a lot - and not just off the net...

Have heard nothing similar with the Ford manuals...

Grobbo · 31-08-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

I have driven a few SV6s and there has been a noticable change in the latter ones I have driven. I dont know what they changed in the box or the electronics but it feels like a different auto to the earlier VEs I have driven, much more decisive and quick to respond.

I havnt driven a manual one lately but I think they got a new box with some update in the last couple of years, may want to check it out.

Yeah they've changed the auto in the new SV6 and it's apparently pretty good. Not so the V8, and definitely not so in the SV6 manual - which is apparently really rubbish.

I'm only talking about V8's tho. SS v XR8...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

With the AFM, I think you just have to find an exhaust that dosnt drone or do what many do and just disable the AFM. I could not be stuffed with the idea of experimenting with exhausts until I got one which wouldnt drone so yeah thats a big negative if people are having problems.

Yeah disabling it is the only solution it seems. Most just drive in manual mode I think.

Yeah sure I'll try and drive them all before making up my mind but those trannys are much more unappealing than the wagon shape is appealing.

svo supporter · 31-08-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

if we all believed everything we read on the internet, the ba is obviously worse than the ea, the territory is just an accident waiting to happen with wheels flying off left right and centre, falcons are the only cars to have brake shudder etc etc etc

Not a truer word posted. Gold.

Have a rep point for that

**Giant Cranium** · 31-08-2010, 06:33 PM

i just got an omega ute and the 4 speed auto is so slow to change.
its like the auto i had in my xf.
but i spose the only recent auto i can compare it to is the one in my old mans g6e

vztrt · 31-08-2010, 06:38 PM

I stop considering the low spec commo's because of the woeful interior. Mind you I sat in a manual SSV recently and was impressed.

04redxr8 · 31-08-2010, 07:07 PM

Holden have always had an uncanny knack of taking any motor and completely ruining it with an automatic transmission. As other have said, see about turning of the AFM. I have heard its pretty rubbish anyway.

What are the clutch and shifting issues you have heard of? I have a manual VE SSV ute and have no trouble.

Grobbo · 31-08-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Holden have always had an uncanny knack of taking any motor and completely ruining it with an automatic transmission. As other have said, see about turning of the AFM. I have heard its pretty rubbish anyway.

What are the clutch and shifting issues you have heard of? I have a manual VE SSV ute and have no trouble.

Just a couple of mates both had to get thier clutches replaced - one three times - not exactly the best resource I know - but then looking around the forums I saw it was a fairly 'common' issue along with gearboxes not shifting very easily and getting replaced.

Obviously this may not mean anything at all as there's heaps on the road so this might be a very very small percentage -just haven't seen anything similar with Ford... I did read in the mags tho that the Ford's had a nicer shift in the manuals.

Was mainly interested in the Auto's tho - was quite surprised but how much of a bagging it got on the Holden sites compared to the ZF which everyone seems to love...

csv8 · 31-08-2010, 10:10 PM

Look at the Skoda Superb Wagon, Commy in size and built by VW.

Grobbo · 31-08-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Look at the Skoda Superb Wagon, Commy in size and built by VW.

Does it come in a V8?

Smoke Pursuit · 31-08-2010, 11:05 PM

We had a VE Calais 6 litre with the 6 speed auto and it was a bucket of garbish, worse gearbox ever, it use to hunt gears and felt like it was slipping all the time, then trying to drive it in manual mode it had a huge delay!! crapola.

Im still interested in VEII tho even tho its very similiar to the current one..

mik · 01-09-2010, 01:08 AM

best to test drive as many as possible, all cars have some short comings , some you may be prepared to over look.

**Bundy** · 01-09-2010, 07:32 AM

Sounds like the best car won

AGAIN!!!

Cashie · 01-09-2010, 07:48 AM

I traded a VE SSV on the BA XR8. My opinions of the car:
Pros:
- Was cheap to mod
- Went hard
- Fuel economy was good (for 6lt)
Cons:
- Lacked personality (XR8 has lots)
- Interior was a backward step over the VY/VZ
- Auto box was average

T3ts50 · 01-09-2010, 08:24 AM

Cant really give an opinion on the 6sp as I have never driven one. But I recently drive my brothers 4sp commo. I seriously thought the tansmission was stuffed. I even asked him whats wrong with it, which he replied its fine thats how it always is.

csv8 · 01-09-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Does it come in a V8?

No..4 cylinder petrol , V6 or diesel. Diesel is a ripper.

CFOUR · 01-09-2010, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

No..4 cylinder petrol , V6 or diesel. Diesel is a ripper.

no diesel is still just diesel

want a wagon buy a territory, or a jag.

Brazen · 01-09-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Just a couple of mates both had to get thier clutches replaced - one three times - not exactly the best resource I know - but then looking around the forums I saw it was a fairly 'common' issue along with gearboxes not shifting very easily and getting replaced.

Obviously this may not mean anything at all as there's heaps on the road so this might be a very very small percentage -just haven't seen anything similar with Ford... I did read in the mags tho that the Ford's had a nicer shift in the manuals.

Not kidding when I say this, but I would think there would be 10 times as many V8 manual Commodores as Falcon XR8s so it may mean your just hearing more issues as there are more cars. To put it into perspective last year alone the SS Sportwagon outsold the XR8 sedan.

Also there have been constant running changes to the calibration of the Commodore boxes since the VE release due to negative feedback. The MY10 Caprice I drove was excellent but I have heard the older ones werent as good.

JamesR · 01-09-2010, 12:37 PM

i quite like the look of the sports 'hatchbacks' but i like the size of the Falcon wagons.
just wish Ford didnt drop them.

Grobbo · 01-09-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFOUR

want a wagon buy a territory, or a jag.

Do they come in a V8?

Grobbo · 01-09-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Not kidding when I say this, but I would think there would be 10 times as many V8 manual Commodores as Falcon XR8s so it may mean your just hearing more issues as there are more cars. To put it into perspective last year alone the SS Sportwagon outsold the XR8 sedan.

Also there have been constant running changes to the calibration of the Commodore boxes since the VE release due to negative feedback. The MY10 Caprice I drove was excellent but I have heard the older ones werent as good.

True this, it is a very rare sight indeed when you see an FG XR8 on the road - would love to know the sales figures.

SS's on the other hand - everywhere.

Yeah I assume they'll re-calibrate it again for the VE2, I guess my point was tho that with it's bad reputation, and the AFM thing, it's enough to completely put me off.

ray38l · 01-09-2010, 01:25 PM

perhaps you could try something new and actually test drive the car instead of judging it on what other people say?
I was considering buying a xr6 turbo because i heard they went hard. I took one for a test drive and actually pulled over to make sure it had a turbo! im not starting a ford vs holden thing but had i traded my LS1 calais for the xr6 based on someone elses opinion alone i would have been very dissapointed. BTW the xr6 was fast but only when you were on a straight road with enough room to let it wind up. just my opinion.

Grobbo · 01-09-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray38l

perhaps you could try something new and actually test drive the car instead of judging it on what other people say?
I was considering buying a xr6 turbo because i heard they went hard. I took one for a test drive and actually pulled over to make sure it had a turbo! im not starting a ford vs holden thing but had i traded my LS1 calais for the xr6 based on someone elses opinion alone i would have been very dissapointed. BTW the xr6 was fast but only when you were on a straight road with enough room to let it wind up. just my opinion.

But then what would we discuss on the forum? :-)

Besides, how would I know about the AFM drone from a modified exhaust or other issues just from a quick test drive...

I reckon researching and discussing this kinda stuff before I start test drives prevents me from making a stupid impulse purchase - which I'm very prone to doing!

MYVYSS · 01-09-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray38l

perhaps you could try something new and actually test drive the car instead of judging it on what other people say?
I was considering buying a xr6 turbo because i heard they went hard. I took one for a test drive and actually pulled over to make sure it had a turbo! im not starting a ford vs holden thing but had i traded my LS1 calais for the xr6 based on someone elses opinion alone i would have been very dissapointed. BTW the xr6 was fast but only when you were on a straight road with enough room to let it wind up. just my opinion.

Mate you have your head in the sand. I read on the internet, if you changed the Tyre Pressure on a XR6T, replaced the left headlight cover and put on a snap on tools seat cover, it easily puts out around 500rwkw's.... Like wise I heard that the LS engines with a tune, edit and small tweaks put out around 300 rwkw...oh wait thats actually true...sorry..

AFAIK you can have the change points in the Auto changed very simple on any of the VE Range. I had the 6 speed VYII SS and never had a problem with my gear box, and well some people on here can back up that...I just about always drove it like I stole it...

vztrt · 01-09-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray38l

perhaps you could try something new and actually test drive the car instead of judging it on what other people say?
I was considering buying a xr6 turbo because i heard they went hard. I took one for a test drive and actually pulled over to make sure it had a turbo! im not starting a ford vs holden thing but had i traded my LS1 calais for the xr6 based on someone elses opinion alone i would have been very dissapointed. BTW the xr6 was fast but only when you were on a straight road with enough room to let it wind up. just my opinion.

Or your just mixing up slowness with refinement.
Apparently FG XR8's are slow..yet auto v auto the XR8 matched the SS. Yet it 'felt' slower. While the XR6T has had better times around the track the VZ HSV's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYVYSS

...I just about always drove it like I stole it...

I can back you up on that bit.