Mowing ..

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I guess logic doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Logic doesnt, laziness does

[OneMadMan]

Originally Posted by swamp

hi Pro Tip ..... if the engine has a sump it does not last /SEVERELY SHORT LIFE when operated on its side .

Reminds me when I was 19 doing community service for not having enough coin to pay the fine for driving with no rego... twice.. love driving..

I had to use a 4 stroke mower in the middle of summer, along with other young lads. I was dirty on having to do this, as you were, when working for nothing (kinda). $100 bucks a day off the fine, 8.30am - 4pm on Sat and Sun.

I had to mow this block that was on a steep slope. I discovered that the briggs and stratton didn't like going across the face of the hill. It made some BAD noises going one way, and was fine going the other. I killed it within 20 mins by going the 'bad way' as much as possible. It seized solid within 6 or seven passes at full noise... Made my day.

That's one mower down and 2 to go...

Fsck the grubber ment and their fines...




One Man

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by onemanempire

Reminds me when I was 19 doing community service for not having enough coin to pay the fine for driving with no rego... twice.. love driving..

I had to use a 4 stroke mower in the middle of summer, along with other young lads. I was dirty on having to do this, as you were, when working for nothing (kinda). $100 bucks a day off the fine, 8.30am - 4pm on Sat and Sun.

I had to mow this block that was on a steep slope. I discovered that the briggs and stratton didn't like going across the face of the hill. It made some BAD noises going one way, and was fine going the other. I killed it within 20 mins by going the 'bad way' as much as possible. It seized solid within 6 or seven passes at full noise... Made my day.

That's one mower down and 2 to go...

Fsck the grubber ment and their fines...

One Man

As soon as I read "slope", I knew where that story was going.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by swamp

hi
Try these

Stihl brushcutter 4mix/4stroke 110 or 130 great power [current FS-111]
Stihl multi tool 2mix /2 stroke 95 good power and light for a combi [ current FS-94ce]

*** BEAWARE stihl 4 mix is a marketing term referring to 4mix =2stroke mix fuel and oil used in a 4 stroke motor

I used these every day for years
Pro Tip ..... if the engine has a sump it does not last /SEVERELY SHORT LIFE when operated on its side . EG honda brushcutters


I see now the aussie Stihl distribution franchise is now giving up to the greenies .
Similar to other Stihl equipment ,in Aust we only stock alot of fast moving product and delete all the high performance stuff.
Beaware that most product of high performance is still available either in Switzerland /Germany just not in Aust.
Pressure cleaners were the best unit model chassis but without the optional largest engines /pumps . The aust branch killed them off .

I wonder how many of those 4-mix engines have been destroyed by people straight-fueling them?

[swamp]

hi
4-mix engines
means 4 stroke
mix = mixed oil/petrol as type of fuel eg 2 stroke fuel

Its not the fuel mix really its more like a teenager having no idea or interest .!!!!
Small 10ltr jerry for 2 stroke ALL handheld equipment
Large 20 ltr jerry for straight unleaded Pushmower only
simple really ......

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by swamp

hi
4-mix engines
means 4 stroke
mix = mixed oil/petrol as type of fuel eg 2 stroke fuel

Its not the fuel mix really its more like a teenager having no idea or interest .!!!!
Small 10ltr jerry for 2 stroke ALL handheld equipment
Large 20 ltr jerry for straight unleaded Pushmower only
simple really ......

My BR600 Magnum (I love that word) has the 64.8cc 4-Mix engine. I think the main advantage I have noticed is how responsive the engine is and doesn't have that typical 2-stroke high-rev scream.



The main reason why Stihl introduced the 4-Mix design was to help their larger engines meet emissions standards. The design limits unburnt fuel escaping into the exhaust by following a typical 4-stroke combustion cycle rather than inlet and exhaust ports. Not having a sump like a real 4-stroke also means it won't suffer from lack of lubrication due to angle changes during operation. The drawback is the added bulk and weight, they also require regular valve clearance adjustments.

[anobserver]

We're now a 3-mower family. After a LONG sojourn in the shop, the Honda HRR 216 VKUA has returned.

Somewhat less than impressed by the service. The shop guy claimed they'd lost the docket and didnt know who it belonged to. But this contradicted what I experienced in several visits to check on 'progress', when i was told it was 'in the queue'. Then today they had the cheek to ask why it took so long to pick it up, saying it'd been sitting there for months...!! I'm all for supporting small business, which sometimes has NFI about service.

Gave it a test run on some thicker grass and it was completely untroubled. It has the GCV 160 (cc) engine. Feels well built and has a big, wide cut - think its 21 inches. The drive mechanism is a handy help, though the machine is only here temporarily. I hope to use it a bit here to get used to it before taking it to its ongoing home. That will happen next time I'm on the mowing roster.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by anobserver

We're now a 3-mower family. After a LONG sojourn in the shop, the Honda HRR 216 VKUA has returned.

Somewhat less than impressed by the service. The shop guy claimed they'd lost the docket and didnt know who it belonged to. But this contradicted what I experienced in several visits to check on 'progress', when i was told it was 'in the queue'. Then today they had the cheek to ask why it took so long to pick it up, saying it'd been sitting there for months...!! I'm all for supporting small business, which sometimes has NFI about service.

Gave it a test run on some thicker grass and it was completely untroubled. It has the GCV 160 (cc) engine. Feels well built and has a big, wide cut - think its 21 inches. The drive mechanism is a handy help, though the machine is only here temporarily. I hope to use it a bit here to get used to it before taking it to its ongoing home. That will happen next time I'm on the mowing roster.

Hmmm, sounds familiar.

[swamp]

hi
4mix 4 stroke
weight difference vs is not noticeable its very small anyway
noise difference 4mix is slightly quieter
4mix /4stroke far better for emissions
no sump ,,,, wayway better than any sump version
valve clearances , everday use every 2 years ,,,, gasket and narrow feeler gauge in a kit , buy online cheap

420 backpack blower BEAST of a 2 stroke

[Citroënbender]

Making a gaskets for exhaust to cylinder on a two-stroke chainsaw block… Will ordinary Sealrite type gasket paper be OK? Wondering if the localised heat is too much for it.

[swamp]

hi
If u watch and read the net alot ,, the turtle type back pack had huge amounts of issues when first introduced .The saving grace might be that was with the first generation and many issues should should have been rectified. It pays with stihl to no the generational differences .
BUT Stihl are like car makers they will cover up issues if they are major when a redesign is obviously needed.

[Citroënbender]

Was interested to see the “chain organiser” spruiked by DFB’s girlfriend - looks to only come in Stihl Orange. You’d think Milwaukee Red might be another good colour to vend.

[DFB FGXR6]

Went to my local Stihl and Husqvarna dealers this morning to get some fuel filters. Normally, I would just order these online and be done with it, but then I wouldn't have an excuse to drive my new car, and I have the time at the moment to go to a physical store. Also, I've seen enough bad examples of aftermarket fuel filters that staying OEM makes sense.

Walked in and out of the Husqvarna dealer with two replacement filters for my 522L within a few minutes, even got asked about the Mustang. The Stihl dealer? Eeraahhh!

I actually found and wrote down the part numbers last night, but of course, I forgot to bring them with me. No matter, they would have access to a full catalog of parts diagrams, right? Right?

The first one was for my BG86, a fairly common blower and common part. These were found............. after an extended computer search. I then wanted two of the updated orange filters for my MS 271, another common machine and part. Well, round and round in circles we went. After multiple computer searches, apparently, they had them in stock, but they were nowhere to be found. In the end, I told them to order me the service kit, which also includes an air filter and spark plug.

For such a busy country dealer and workshop, I can't believe they didn't have a basic fuel filter in stock. If I didn't have time on my side, I would have blown a lid in there.

Next time, I'll just order them online. The problem here is making sure you get OEM parts and not the cheap aftermarket sh.t. For Stihl, I found the below eBay link is one of the very few online sellers who offers OEM parts.

https://www.ebay.com.au/str/outbushm....m3561.l161211

The other thing I have found with regard to OEM vs aftermarket parts, if you have a Honda or Kindasuki, stay with OEM. Those engines are made with more precision and have tighter tolerances, so replacement parts need to be a perfect fit. Screwing around with aftermarket parts that kinda-sorta-maybe fit, then having to go and buy the better OEM part because it didn't fit properly, just buy the real thing in first place. I'd probably say the same about Stihl and Husqvarna too.

For Briggs & Stratton, Krohler, Tecumseh, I've found those more tolerable to aftermarket parts.

[Vekgib]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

From my trimmer thread -
https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11502173



image

Contrary to what you might think, the ultra hard lines are actually more fragile, they seem to snap and chip much faster. The diamond edge has a more flexible quality, so it doesn't shatter and break off as quickly. You can get this stuff from a mower shop, if they don't have it, you can order it from a variety of online stores. It's available in the large spool or the retail friendly donut, just make sure you order the correct gauge.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=diamo...client=gws-wiz

Cheers again for the recommendation. Mine arrived yesterday. Looking forward to trying it out when what's currently on the Honda dies out.

[DFB FGXR6]

While I was in the Stihl dealer earlier this week, I pointed to the lubricant shelf and asked if they sold much Stihl Motomix. To my surprise, apparently they do, especially to construction companies that want to avoid clueless employees straight fueling expensive tools.

https://www.stihl.com.au/en/ap/motomix-1098



Motomix is a premixed canned fuel sold through Stihl dealers. The main claim to fame here being the absence of ethanol, while apparently improving cold starting performance and "flawless running characteristics". This 50:1 mix uses the synthetic HP Ultra oil, which includes a fuel stabilizer with the ability to store for up to 5-years "under optimum storage conditions". The synthetic oil also reduces smoking and carbon deposits by burning cleaner, Stihl also suggesting longer engine life an via superior lubrication.

The killer drawback is the price. Not only are you paying for oil and fuel here, but you also pay for someone to mix it for you and transport it to a dealer in a fancy tin.

1-litre - $14.00
4-litre - $45.00
60-litre - $602.00
205-litre - $1622.00

The following video aims to test the claims that Motomix will clean an older engine that has ran on a typical fuel and mineral oil mix. This guy is a natural on camera.



Personally, I think the cleaning ability claims by Stihl are overstated. That doesn't mean the fuel or concept is bad though. For the occasional user, say a chainsaw or tool that only sees use once or twice a year, Motomix will reduce the likely hood of fuel going stale and ruining fuel system components, the result of that fuel stabilizer and the absence of ethanol. So, in this case, the higher cost of this fuel could potentially save the user from expensive repairs.

The use case for Motomix is very specific, but one that is fast becoming a thing of the past as the occasional user transitions to battery powered tools. However, if I was to use any canned fuel, it would be Motomix, primarily because of the lower carbon deposits and reduced smoking brought by the HP Ultra oil.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

While I was in the Stihl dealer earlier this week, I pointed to the lubricant shelf and asked if they sold much Stihl Motomix. To my surprise, apparently they do, especially to construction companies that want to avoid clueless employees straight fueling expensive tools.

https://www.stihl.com.au/en/ap/motomix-1098

image

Motomix is a premixed canned fuel sold through Stihl dealers. The main claim to fame here being the absence of ethanol, while apparently improving cold starting performance and "flawless running characteristics". This 50:1 mix uses the synthetic HP Ultra oil, which includes a fuel stabilizer with the ability to store for up to 5-years "under optimum storage conditions". The synthetic oil also reduces smoking and carbon deposits by burning cleaner, Stihl also suggesting longer engine life an via superior lubrication.

The killer drawback is the price. Not only are you paying for oil and fuel here, but you also pay for someone to mix it for you and transport it to a dealer in a fancy tin.

1-litre - $14.00
4-litre - $45.00
60-litre - $602.00
205-litre - $1622.00

The following video aims to test the claims that Motomix will clean an older engine that has ran on a typical fuel and mineral oil mix. This guy is a natural on camera.



Personally, I think the cleaning ability claims by Stihl are overstated. That doesn't mean the fuel or concept is bad though. For the occasional user, say a chainsaw or tool that only sees use once or twice a year, Motomix will reduce the likely hood of fuel going stale and ruining fuel system components, the result of that fuel stabilizer and the absence of ethanol. So, in this case, the higher cost of this fuel could potentially save the user from expensive repairs.

The use case for Motomix is very specific, but one that is fast becoming a thing of the past as the occasional user transitions to battery powered tools. However, if I was to use any canned fuel, it would be Motomix, primarily because of the lower carbon deposits and reduced smoking brought by the HP Ultra oil.

Chickanic absolutely pillories canned fuel at every opportunity, don’t know if the premixes in the US are different, or their long supply chains lead to the stuff going stale.

And yes, petrol and 2 stroke is a thing of the past in a lot of areas, townhouses and courtyards aren’t big enough for petrol machines, the new owners have no reason to choose it.

[OneMadMan]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

This guy is a natural on camera.

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Yeah, he works the camera well. A natural. Knows his stuff to, which always helps.
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Great post and info, thanks man.
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What I took away from that was: If you want it clean (no carbon) pull it apart and attack with wire brush hehehe.
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But the best thing was watching the video that came after the one you posted.
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--Man, wish I had one of these back in the day. I would be rich by now!! (or even richer, depending on how you look at it!!!)
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-- Cheers,
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- One Man

[swamp]

hi
Stihl sales are run by the countries import dealer / wholesaler either company owned or a distribution franchise. As a result the marketing for countries can be completely different.
This also applies to the tech specs of machines .
Australia has a habit of down grading top spec models with the smallest engine at the largest price .
What this all means is Stihl is a HUGE marketing machine .
Don`t believe everything u hear .........

Sounds like Toyota in Australia does the same .

I`m sure the oil is a good thing but marketing with fuel is ridiculous. But wait . Australians are like sheep and many will buy this . WTF wake up .

Contracting whipper snippers last 2-3 years ,, never stripped an engine for carbon . Always used more oil in mix than needed. Holy moly it was not genuine oil WoW .......
I had multiples of / Stihl 4 mix // Stihl 2 stroke
last longer than Honda junk 4 stroke conventional. Another marketing story ..

[Vekgib]

I've really gotta say that in all my years of owning Honda edgers, it's the first time that I've ever heard someone describe them as junk. What brand should I be purchasing next ?

[swamp]

hi
Stihl 4 mix units are ok
Commercial chainsaws and brushcutters are ok

Beaware that ALL brands have issues either all or specific models at some time .
Eg honda make good push mowers generally but small hand held stuff not that great

Customer support varies alot between brands and countries
GREAT Toro USA supported me by making available drawings for trailer ramp angles for different models of ZTR
BAD local ozzy importer treats ZTR diesel at $ 20,000++ as domestic mower . USA does not .
Good local dealer upgraded from alloy spindle to the largest steel spindles in industry free of charge


Kohler USA gave me factory support to fix my engines problem after problem , main cause was poor engineering /overheating

Kohler have every part upgraded on an engine thats still current . Took them 15yrs but they got there .
Mostly its because there cheap at engineering owned by a plumbers company
When they started with 25hp even in moderate weather the engine oil COOKS at 117cel ++
All air cooled engines use an oil cooler LARGE
A Kohler has sump capacity thats small and a very small ineffective cooler

Cyl head problems
no machined intake gasket surfaces , causes vacuum leak ie running lean
rocker posts fatigue and fall out
......Head gaskets blown why
no head studs
no fire ring
poorly located oil drain
wrong shape oil drain passage

Intake manifold causing lean running to one bank why because its crushed/ made half the size DOH

Piston ring quaility that bad the cross hatch has to be very low to try and control oil usage .
Fit Mazda rings and a quality cast iron liner and machine work solves the chinese assembly /manufacture issues

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

I've really gotta say that in all my years of owning Honda edgers, it's the first time that I've ever heard someone describe them as junk. What brand should I be purchasing next ?

I probably wouldn't go so far as to say they are junk, those small GX engines are lovely to use with great throttle response, very fuel efficient, quieter running and obviously no smoking or mixing fuels. I have one on a Atom Edger and I love the thing.

However, they do need some additional care and precaution compared to a 2-stroke. I think where these engines go wrong are in the hands of the mechanically unsympathetic. They only hold 80ml of oil, so if they run even the slightest bit under, you will burn them up very quickly. So you really need keep up with oil inspections and replacement. And while they can be used from multiple angles like a two stroke, its not ideal for lubrication.

The other setback, which is the deal breaker for me, the additional weight of the engine and machine overall. For the occasional user, that's probably not a huge deal, but for someone using the machine daily or for extended periods, that weight becomes fatiguing faster.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

However, they do need some additional care and precaution compared to a 2-stroke. I think where these engines go wrong are in the hands of the mechanically unsympathetic. They only hold 80ml of oil, so if they run even the slightest bit under, you will burn them up very quickly. So you really need keep up with oil inspections and replacement

A few years ago I worked on a commercial grounds maintenance team, Honda mowers, Stihl everything else and all was good untill one day a couple of Honda straight shaft line trimmers turned up, weight wasnt really an issue, not really noticably heavier although maybe that was because we were all used to using bigger Stihl gear.

What was a drawback was that all of a sudden we had gear that needed oil changes every 10 hours, whereas apart from pre start checks and air filter blow-outs, oils only ever got done on friday mornings. Adding oil changes to the morning set-up was an annoyance.

[swamp]

hi
Turning a brush cutter on its side to do edges if it has an oil sump will most definitely shorten the engines life . Once they get some wear from poor lubrication ,the oil consumption starts . Eventually causing engines to seize repeatedly.
After the two batch's of Hondas around the 5yr mark I woke up and swapped to 4 mix brush cutters . Way better .

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

A few years ago I worked on a commercial grounds maintenance team, Honda mowers, Stihl everything else and all was good untill one day a couple of Honda straight shaft line trimmers turned up, weight wasnt really an issue, not really noticably heavier although maybe that was because we were all used to using bigger Stihl gear.

What was a drawback was that all of a sudden we had gear that needed oil changes every 10 hours, whereas apart from pre start checks and air filter blow-outs, oils only ever got done on friday mornings. Adding oil changes to the morning set-up was an annoyance.

As you alluded to, it would depend on which model Stihl. Those 4-Mix engines certainly add bulk and weight to the equation, to the point where the weight difference between the Honda 4-stroke and Stihl 4-mix is minimal -

Honda UMK425 - 5.7 kg (dry, without head) / 25cc 0.72 kW ($599)
Stihl FS 91 4-mix - 5.5 kg (dry, without head) / 28.4cc 0.95 kW ($699)

Then compare that to a traditional/non-valved 2-stroke Stihl or Husqvarna -

Stihl FS94 - 4.6 kg (dry, without head) / 24.1cc 0.9 kW ($749)
Husqvarna 525LST - 4.7 kg (dry, without head) / 25.4cc 1.0 kW ($769)

And my absolute favorite...................

Husqvarna 522L - 4.2 kg (dry, without head) / 22.5cc 0.8 kW ($679)

[swamp]

hi
My favourite
FS 111 R Brushcutter or the earlier 110 units
------Technical data
Displacement cm³ 31.4
Power output kW 1.05
Weight kg 5.5

Weight is hardly noticed when doing an overgrown area why because its that much easier and also the job is shorter in time . Both of these reduce fatigue .
The husky 525 looks interesting .

Fs131......................................great power to weight
Technical data
Displacement cm³ 36.3
Power output kW 1.4
Weight kg 5.5

FS240
Technical data
Displacement cc 37.7
Power output kW/hp 1.7/2.3
Weight kg 6.6
Displacement cm³ 37.7
Power output kW 1.7

[Trendseeker]

I’m thinking of replacing my 17-year old Victa Mustang mulch’n’catch mower. If you were buying a new mower for domestic use only on a block with about 270sqm to 300sqm of lawn, which one of the would you buy:

https://www.victa.com/au/en_au/produ...stang-850.html

https://www.victa.com/au/en_au/produ...400w-skin.html

It must have an alloy deck and be able to mulch.

The current price on the Victa Mustang 850 is $899.
Current price of the Corvette 1400W with two 5AH batteries and twin charger is $949.

I can’t find any reviews on the Corvette; it seems to be a fairly new product.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

I’m thinking of replacing my 17-year old Victa Mustang mulch’n’catch mower. If you were buying a new mower for domestic use only on a block with about 270sqm to 300sqm of lawn, which one of the would you buy:

https://www.victa.com/au/en_au/produ...stang-850.html

https://www.victa.com/au/en_au/produ...400w-skin.html

It must have an alloy deck and be able to mulch.

The current price on the Victa Mustang 850 is $899.
Current price of the Corvette 1400W with two 5AH batteries and twin charger is $949.

I can’t find any reviews on the Corvette; it seems to be a fairly new product.

That Corvette is actually one of the better battery mowers around as it uses a Aussie-spec alloy chassis, most on the market have either steel or plastic deck, bar blades and half catcher chutes. And yes, its a relatively new model.

I'm generally always going to say go for the petrol machine, but then I like small engines more than I like small electric motors. A couple of points to consider -

- The Mustang 850 has four blades instead of two, which will improve both catching and mulching performance. Two blades don't provide as much lift, so it compromises catching ability and doesn't permit efficient mulching.

- The 850 engine has a cast iron sleave, so it will easily match the chassis in terms of longevity.

- If you wanted to save some money, then they also do a Mustang 725, which uses the 163cc alloy-bore domestic engine. I have the one with the InStart option, its a nice light weight mower with great fuel economy.

https://www.victa.com/au/en_au/produ...ng-725exi.html



- DO NOT consider the "Victa" engine, they are garbage. I've seen plenty of them with premature wear, they are nosier, less powerful.............junk.

- If you wanted to go a little bit more, then check out the Commercial 19. These use the same Mustang alloy chassis and 850 engine, but with better wheels, stronger handle mountings, bolted axle mountings, stronger height adjuster, larger catcher, steel wear strips on the chassis and steel catcher flap. It does weigh a bit more, but the machine would easily do 20+ years service. I have the 21-inch version and its been brilliant.

https://www.victa.com/au/en_au/produ...19-850-ic.html





I still think battery mowers have a little while to go, they use more juice than other battery tools. I think if you went with one of the 850 series engines, you are going to have plenty of power and longevity up your sleeve.

[Trendseeker]

Thanks for your advice, DFG.

I wondered about the difference of two and four blades and you’ve answered that, thanks.

That 750 Instart model looks good but it doesn’t seem to be available now. I like the durability of the Mustangs but I’m thinking I might be one of the few still using a petrol mower in 15 to 20 years, and I might prefer the lower weight of the Corvette in a few years.

Most of the current battery powered mowers fall short of what I need for my lawns. I think I underestimated; my lawns would be about 360sqm and the estimated runtime of the Corvette with twin 5AH batteries of 40 mins is probably borderline or about 10 minutes short of what I need.

I was attracted by the special prices on offer at the moment. If I hang on to my current mower, I’ll have to get the handle replaced - it snapped right where the tightening wheel is on the side. The wheel is holding it on for now but I need to be careful lifting it with the handle.

I’ve got a bit of time to decide before the special ends. Thanks again!

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Thanks for your advice, DFG.

I wondered about the difference of two and four blades and you’ve answered that, thanks.

That 750 Instart model looks good but it doesn’t seem to be available now. I like the durability of the Mustangs but I’m thinking I might be one of the few still using a petrol mower in 15 to 20 years, and I might prefer the lower weight of the Corvette in a few years.

Most of the current battery powered mowers fall short of what I need for my lawns. I think I underestimated; my lawns would be about 360sqm and the estimated runtime of the Corvette with twin 5AH batteries of 40 mins is probably borderline or about 10 minutes short of what I need.

I was attracted by the special prices on offer at the moment. If I hang on to my current mower, I’ll have to get the handle replaced - it snapped right where the tightening wheel is on the side. The wheel is holding it on for now but I need to be careful lifting it with the handle.

I’ve got a bit of time to decide before the special ends. Thanks again!

My pleasure.

Yes, the 750iS was only produced for a year or two and I got one of the last ones.

I will say, you still need a bit weight from the machine to help it stay planted and not just skip across thicker/spongier grass.

[DFB FGXR6]

I've been using these No-Spill fuel cans for a couple of years now and would happily buy them again. Not the cheapest out there, but far more convenient to use with less wastage caused by spills and eliminates the need for a funnel or separate filling tube. Also, the possibility of contamination is eliminated due to the internal filter and the fact the lid never coming off unless refilling.

5-litre -
https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B001PCR...erred_us_au_au

10-litre -
https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B000W72..._au&th=1&psc=1

20-litre -
https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B000W9J...erred_us_au_au