Fairmont Ghia to disapear? - Page 2

FPV · 30-06-2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

They need to unify the brand more, dropping the Fairmont Ghia name would be a start and perhaps thinking of something new, like XS GHIA or even an XR GHIA maybe? The Calais is very sporty, they tried to do teh same with the Fairmont Ghia but failed!

Well firstly Holden followed Ford into the sports-luxury category. The VY calais was a full luxury sedan when launched, they only decided to throw in a bit of sportiness by tacking on a bodykit and wheels in VY series II, and a sports calibration of there IRS. Ford aimed at the sports-luxury category from the BA, and i think it was pulled off nicely, no bodykits, just subtle hints of sportiness along with a sports control blade suspension to distinguish itself from the rest of the range, along the lines of a BMW 530i. Ford had a more integrated sports look on the BA while the VY looked like a stop gap approach for a sports-luxury sedan, it was pretty much a HBD body kit. They have smoothed the body kit to a certain degree on the VZ, however we will probably have to wait until the VE to see a proper sports-luxury exterior.

Wheels tested the BA Fairmont Ghia against the Mercedes E320 and the 530i(E39), and you could hardly say it was embarassed, it was one star below the 530i and half a star off the E320(W211) if i remember correctly.

I think the Fairmont Ghia definately has a justified position in the range, it has enough differentiation under the skin between it and an XT. Ford decided back when the AUII was launched that people who bought Fortes wanted the cars to look like Fairmont Ghias as well, therefore the Fairmont bonnet was implemented across the AUII range bar the XR's, and they have followed that track until now, at roughly the same time Holden decided they wanted to have the calais differentiated from the base models. Two different views have been taken, however Ford looks to slowly be changing there view. The BF Fairmont Ghia's bumper has more chrome, and some have said on this forum that there will be more differentiation in the next update.

Also im not sure about the XS naming, Excess? I do note that you specify that as only an extra model not that the name should be implemented.

bathurst77 · 30-06-2006, 11:27 PM

Why would they axe the ghia?
Cant see that happening.
Sure it doesnt sell as well as the bread n butter models but you can bet "profit-per-car" is much higher. Unlike the LWB versions the design and tooling costs to make the car are minimal, so it doesnt cost them much mre to build then a fleetie, but they sell it at a big mark up.
Also it is a "flagship car" that looks great on the brochures and ads and gives ford an entry into the "country Club" market.
And it generates showroom traffic.
Sir may come int the show room looking for a Ghia and realise he cant afford it and buy something else. conversely, the buyer might be pushed to get the ghia instead of the Fairmont/TS at a bigger commision/profit for all.

Plus you needyor corporate car park snobery.
Remember the techs get XTs, Reps get futuras, sales managers XR6 na, middle managers Fairmonts, senior managers get Ghias.

Private buyers and self employed get SRs or turbos or 8s.

bo0 · 01-07-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

By the end of april 2006 Ford had sold 6066 territories in Oz, with almost one third (2002) accounted for by the top spec Ghia. Compare this with the falcon, where the Ghia accounts for just two percent of falcon sales.

What has to be considered as well is that there are only 3 Territory models compared against 15 or more Falcon Sedan/Wagon/LPG models.

As what's been mentioned before, there is not a great deal of differentiation of the Ghia against the Fairmont or other models inthe BA/BF compared to the past.

Compared tot he territory, there is quite a variation to each model and such is the premium of owning a Ghia, chances are if you had X amount of cash and were looking at a Territory, a Ghia would be the one to go for. where as with the falcons there is a wide range to consider, whether you want LPG, sport, luxury or povo

:

Quote:

Plus you needyor corporate car park snobery.
Remember the techs get XTs, Reps get futuras, sales managers XR6 na, middle managers Fairmonts, senior managers get Ghias.

That's exactly it, a large amount of the fleet falcons comprise of XT/Futura/XR6's, a Ghia generally isn't in that ballpark, hence their sales or popularity.

Iphido · 01-07-2006, 08:02 AM

Remember fleet only sales does not secure a future. Look at the wagon, Fairlane and LTD.

As the corperate carpark changes to lease vechicals, Ghia volumes will also decrease.

Ford needs to attract private customers too. Who can say they would buy a Fairmont Ghia over a XR6 (or turbo or XR8) with a luxury pack. Few, atleast new. Should Ford be a XR only company?

With only ~1,600 Ghias being made each year, volume is very simular to the LWB models. Thats just over 100 Ghia's being made a month!

Im still amazed you can't get optional 18" wheels for the Ghia. Or a LSD. I think everyone knows my views on a optional turbo engine. If they can put it in a 2 ton people mover, they can bloody well put it into a Fairmont Ghia.

I think BF was a move in the right direction. Finally with Fog lights and a nice audish chrome bar, chrome strip goes all the way around (why wouldn't it?), zf 6 speed and DSC, and some decent 17" wheels. They look very smick.

Its just a shame the didn't go the whole hog and put in fairlane seat pockets, powered passenger seat and a LSD.

Walkinshaw · 01-07-2006, 09:40 AM

Ford had it right with the EF/L Ghia.

(1) it passes a 100 yard test. You should NOT mistake a ghia for an XT, even at 100m
(2) it had mechanical advantage over Gli.
(3) it had a lower sportier ride, decent rims (for its time)
(4) unique front end, unique bumpers, grill, bonnet, lights
(5) a decent differentiation from Gli/Futura/Fairmont

To get this differentiation back Ghia has to be full of fruit/looks that easy seperate it from XT's etc. Problem is new XT's/Futura's are so well equipped that I't hard to differentiate the higher spec modles. The AU's even went to the extent of having a diffrent dash. Although this was more down to the fact that the target ghia market (read: 85yrs +) would have a heart atack if they saw a babbons **** on their dash.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-07-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Ford had it right with the EF/L Ghia.

(1) it passes a 100 yard test. You should NOT mistake a ghia for an XT, even at 100m
(2) it had mechanical advantage over Gli.
(3) it had a lower sportier ride, decent rims (for its time)
(4) unique front end, unique bumpers, grill, bonnet, lights
(5) a decent differentiation from Gli/Futura/Fairmont

To get this differentiation back Ghia has to be full of fruit/looks that easy seperate it from XT's etc. Problem is new XT's/Futura's are so well equipped that I't hard to differentiate the higher spec modles. The AU's even went to the extent of having a diffrent dash. Although this was more down to the fact that the target ghia market (read: 85yrs +) would have a heart atack if they saw a babbons **** on their dash.

Ergh i dont agree with you there.

Fairmont Ghia now has the same differences as it did back in the EL days.

Chrome front, chrome rear, now it has bigger rims, its got the chrome bumper inserts, the foglamps etc.

The only thing the EL had over a BF was the fact that it had the bigger engine, but you got to remember that the BF has the better gearbox then the XT and diff ratio.

MoreHPformyXR6 · 01-07-2006, 11:25 AM

One of my personal favoriate Fairmont Ghias of the time was the XF Fairmont Ghia (also liked the XE Fairmont Ghia) I think both of these had a bit of a cult following for there time eg like the VH SLE Commodore compared to the run of the mill Commodore of Falcon. Both of these had an obvious presence over there base model equivalents. Ford has headed in the right direction with the BF Fairmont Ghia its the most visually changed of all the BF models. Tastefull chrome touches & sweet new wheels. The soft leather seats of the BF Fairmont Ghia or so so nice.(I found them so comfy) But I still feel Ford needs to do more to make the car visually different & more classy & sophisticated that the XT Falcon for example. They also need to look at marketing it. I never here the Calais looks to much like a Commodore. (Dont know if Holden have troube selling the Calais or how many are sold). The BF Fairmont Ghia with its sports luxury suspension & ZF 6 speed & much improved NVH levels. Is a great car but if visually it was even more appealing than it was alraedy it would be a great thing.

buickman · 01-07-2006, 11:29 AM

I cannot see it happing only if Ford shuts manufacturing in Australia or goes to the numbers game like mitsibishi or other euro's

Bossxr8 · 01-07-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I thought that might be the excuse, to lower costs.

Look at nearly every car at the motor show, they all had one. The Golf even has one for the RH foot as well as the leftwhen on the cruise control. I think the new Focus even has one.

It used to be a known fact that a driver could get better control of the pedals, when the left foot was on the footrest, also to counteract the force on the brake pedal when braking heavily, and thereby help avoid accidents!!

Or do people use the left foot to brake these days? Baaaad practice.

Not cost cutting, it is done by Jaguar too, after they found that removing them resulted in less chance of foot injuries and a higher crash test rating. Ford reviewed the results and tested them for themselves and came to the same result. Cost saving is just a sweetener.

ltd · 01-07-2006, 12:47 PM

Tom Gorman has already said that ford is making the orion in LHD for the OS market, I wouldn't be surprised to find that a ford aus designed and even partially built LWB headed to the USA for the replacement of the lincoln towncar; especially when the michigan plant that makes them is to be shutdown in 2007, with no replacement plant and no cross tooling with the crown vic/grand marquis plant.

As soaring oil prices erode the marketshare for large cars, I believe that in the USA huge cars like the towncar will only be niche cars selling only about 2500 per month, and as such this would be an ideal quantity for ford aus/ too little for ford usa to make the project financially viable. Also, the crown vic has a new model in the pipeline, and they are upgrading/retooling the plants that make them so I don't think they'll axe the crown vic in the next 7 years.
LWB for the USA? Could be.

Dezza · 01-07-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Ergh i dont agree with you there.

Fairmont Ghia now has the same differences as it did back in the EL days.

Chrome front, chrome rear, now it has bigger rims, its got the chrome bumper inserts, the foglamps etc.

The only thing the EL had over a BF was the fact that it had the bigger engine, but you got to remember that the BF has the better gearbox then the XT and diff ratio.

Sorry but I have to agree with Walkinshaw there. The problem is the front panels on the BF Ghia are the same as the XT except that the grille is fitted with a chrome surround, a chrome bar is bolted into the lower bumper and a pair of foglights are added. On the EL, the headlights, bonnet, and bumper were unique to the Fairmont / LWBs. The large chromed grille on the EL Fairmonts meant you could easily pick a GLi from a Fairmont.

BTW. It would be stupid to drop the Ghia from the range. Just set it apart from the cheaper models a bit more and sales should increase.

Iphido · 02-07-2006, 10:33 AM

I think if 18" wheels were avalible as a option atleast then it would help make the Ghia more distinctive.

17" are standard on XT's (as SRs) and XR6's. Even Focus gets bigger than 17" wheels.

Perhaps buyers could option the Sports kit for free on the Ghia. If people saw it on a few cars people might option it on XT, Futura etc or purchase it aftermarket.

I would like to see atleast one XR colour added to the Ghias colour palette. Several ghia owners have said they would like some bolder colour choices.

Driving a BF Fairlane Ghia yesterday there was so much Ford got right. The parts it got wrong was the rear end styling, rear interior room and equipment levels and the laughable rear doors which were small and don't open very far.

But have to say the 190kw + 6 speed was a nice combination. Power was good, shifts were good, SSS seemed slow tho, I guess I never accumulated enough points for it to shift fast.

It also cried out for a LSD as we managed to pull some 60 ft single wheel smoke trails.

The Stylist · 02-07-2006, 11:08 AM

I really like the Ghia as it is now, but there could be so much more done to improve it. One of the most common thoughts being waved about here is the lack of differentiation between the Ghia and the rest of the range - this needs to be sorted.

I've got the feeling the Ghia is where its at today because of the AU situation and/or cost saving measures.

Bossxr8 · 02-07-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphido

I would like to see atleast one XR colour added to the Ghias colour palette. Several ghia owners have said they would like some bolder colour choices.

They have already done that. Seduce is an XR color thats also available on Ghia only, not XT, Futura or Fairmont.

Iphido · 02-07-2006, 01:46 PM

Wow, that must have been recent. My BF spec sheet doesn't show that.

I've never seen a BF Ghia in colours other than white, silver or black. I wish ford had some more photos on website of actual cars.

janek · 02-07-2006, 01:49 PM

my one is gold

Bossxr8 · 02-07-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphido

Wow, that must have been recent. My BF spec sheet doesn't show that.

I've never seen a BF Ghia in colours other than white, silver or black. I wish ford had some more photos on website of actual cars.

They have only just started making cars in that color.

DDXR6T · 02-07-2006, 03:21 PM

I looked at BA XR6's and basic XT's, but the clincher for me was the Fairmont Ghia. Affordable luxury

Walkinshaw · 02-07-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

Sorry but I have to agree with Walkinshaw there. The problem is the front panels on the BF Ghia are the same as the XT except that the grille is fitted with a chrome surround, a chrome bar is bolted into the lower bumper and a pair of foglights are added. On the EL, the headlights, bonnet, and bumper were unique to the Fairmont / LWBs. The large chromed grille on the EL Fairmonts meant you could easily pick a GLi from a Fairmont.

BTW. It would be stupid to drop the Ghia from the range. Just set it apart from the cheaper models a bit more and sales should increase.

Indeed. Ford have a HUGE identity problem.

You need to beable to get 4 cars, all the same colour

XT, XR, Ghia and LTD and from front,side, back on you should beable to tell the diffrence from 100m instantly. You can't though.

Craig · 02-07-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

why cant the Fairlane/LTD be a turbo or even a Boss 260?
Imo the LTD should have had the Boss 260 from the start.

The 3 valve engine is ideally suited for the heavier cars with it's much better low down torque and a Fairmont Ghia or LTD would look silly with a bonnet bulge IMO.

Cheers CC

anto · 03-07-2006, 12:39 AM

you guys are forgetting what kind of people buy a GHIA , I would be bet most would be conservative or elderly types that dont want flash colours and bodykits they want high equipment levels and comfort. I have an older brother in his 40's who always goes for a V8 ghia for his fleet car every 2 years when in fact he could have a GT if he wanted to and always in either white or grey , he likes the ghias because they look classy and understated as opposed to the boy racer look with body kits, big shiny wheels and spoilers. That is in fact the reason he wont buy a new GT !

Bossxr8 · 03-07-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

you guys are forgetting what kind of people buy a GHIA , I would be bet most would be conservative or elderly types that dont want flash colours and bodykits they want high equipment levels and comfort. I have an older brother in his 40's who always goes for a V8 ghia for his fleet car every 2 years when in fact he could have a GT if he wanted to and always in either white or grey , he likes the ghias because they look classy and understated as opposed to the boy racer look with body kits, big shiny wheels and spoilers. That is in fact the reason he wont buy a new GT !

Finally someone who understands Fords marketing position for the Ghia. Bravo.

Stoney! · 03-07-2006, 07:55 PM

Maybe they should try a few things with it, rather than something radical like deleting it.

They should try dressing it up to look closer to an XR, Holden have dressed the Calais quite nicelyin my opinion, and are a great looking car, and in terms of looks, i'd deffinaly buy one over the fairmont ghia.

I understand there will be people that disagree, but we all have different tastes, to me the calais is a hot looking car, the Fairmont Ghia hower is far from ugly, but it just doesn't take the cake for me.

Stoney!

Bossxr8 · 03-07-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Maybe they should try a few things with it, rather than something radical like deleting it.

They should try dressing it up to look closer to an XR, Holden have dressed the Calais quite nicelyin my opinion, and are a great looking car, and in terms of looks, i'd deffinaly buy one over the fairmont ghia.

I understand there will be people that disagree, but we all have different tastes, to me the calais is a hot looking car, the Fairmont Ghia hower is far from ugly, but it just doesn't take the cake for me.

Stoney!

Every comment you have ever made on here puts Ford down in some way and praises Holden. Is anyone even suprised by your responses anymore.

Abacus · 03-07-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

you guys are forgetting what kind of people buy a GHIA , I would be bet most would be conservative or elderly types that dont want flash colours and bodykits they want high equipment levels and comfort. I have an older brother in his 40's who always goes for a V8 ghia for his fleet car every 2 years when in fact he could have a GT if he wanted to and always in either white or grey , he likes the ghias because they look classy and understated as opposed to the boy racer look with body kits, big shiny wheels and spoilers. That is in fact the reason he wont buy a new GT !

Crap. Listen to the situation from an actual Ghia owner's point of view.

I'm 45, and I'd buy a Ghia over an XR8 for reasons that have nothing to do with those you suggest. 15 years ago I'd have still bought the Ghia for the same reasons.

And the reason has nothing to do with exterior styling. In fact, I prefer the XR styling.

The problem is this. Ghia's have nice interiors. XR's don't. It's comparatively easy to up-spec the mechanicals of a Ghia to more-or-less XR levels after delivery (or it was, while they had Windsors, I know it's a different story now). But you can't up-spec the interior of an XR to Ghia levels.

I looked at an AU XR8 when I was shopping for my current ride. Bloody awful Forte fitout, bar some piping on the seats. Crap sound system. Crap dashboard. Ordinary seat fabrics. Totally disappointing, particularly given that the exterior of the AU XRs were (and in my book, still are) quite stunning.

The BA/BF would probably be the first time I'd rather buy the XR8 over the Ghia, and the reason is easy to understand. The XR8 gets the real McCoy under the bonnet. The Ghia's donk is neutered, and it's not a simple job to ugrade it to something approaching XR specs.

But I still wouldn't want the stock XR interior. I know there's a "leather pack" or something now, but you still don't get the rest of the Ghia luxuries.

So the short answer is I wouldn't buy the XR, and I wouldn't buy the Ghia either. I would go to another brand. And given my car is approaching the end of its economic life, I guess that's what I'll wind up doing.

The moral is this, if Ford want to stimulate Ghia sales, they have to give the thing an engine that's at least on par with the XR. Expecting people to cough up the extra readies for a second-rate motor is one major reason why Ghia buyers like myself won't touch it.

**Silver Ghia** · 03-07-2006, 08:56 PM

Why is "Falcon" written on the number plate of the Fairmont Ghia in the photo?

No wonder the Fairmont Ghia is losing its identity.

How about Ford dropping the "Fairmont" bit and just call it a "Ghia" similar to Holden calling its Commode flagship a "Calais".
At the moment it seems to get confused with the standard "Fairmont" . Its also a bit of a mouthful saying "Fairmont Ghia" everytime someone asks what car you're driving.

So just call it a "Ghia" - nothing else.

Or call it something else, a single classy name. Suggestions?

Also put the name on the lower sill in the same place as the XR's have their name, not on the front guard where it looks ordinary.

Nappa · 04-07-2006, 08:49 AM

ford wont be axing the Fairmont Ghia, we've heard that if they do get rid of the LWB models it wont be until Orion and then the Fairmont Ghia will take over as the premium falcon and it may even get more kit in it. The is still a fair amount of people who prefer a ghia to an XR.

ClevlndStemer · 04-07-2006, 12:39 PM

I agree with Stoney, the Fairmont Ghia in comparison to the Calais (exterior wise) looks like Ford's version of the camry, boring and for the older generation. Except problem is the older generation will stick to Toyota as it is perceived as a better car.

The Yeti · 04-07-2006, 04:16 PM

keep the LWB fairlane and LTD dump the ghia I recon at the end of the day its a falcon nothing more, IMHO the fairmont ghia is the most over rated car on the ford line up

Iphido · 04-07-2006, 04:57 PM

I think the Ghia interior has more of the things I like and is of higher quality. Calais does do a better job of dressing up tho. Unique dash, lots of swade, more unique look (headlights taillights). 260kw verse 230kw.

GT isn't that special. Apart from a slightly more powerful engine (yet turns in XR numbers) its all poverty. Even the GT-P has its limitations and doesn't feel overly special and I'm becomming less and less a fan of the FPV body kits (although the F6 looks pretty tidy).

Ford should realise not everyone wants a XR or FPV.

Problem with droping the fairmont Name is Fesita Ghia and Focus Ghia.

And you can make things look nice with out overstating the cars styling. BMW has mastered this. Higher spec cars look nicer with more trimmings and exterior jewlery but its cohesive and stuble.

I'm 27, own a skyline, driven lots of cars. Ghia is what Im choosing instead of a XR6 Turbo or 1997 BMW 740 or 540 or a Skyline R34 2.5L Turbo sedan.