Wheels Magazine and the Holden Influence

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Ford_Boy

im just sick of the countless holden ads. im always seeing the ad when they have statements made from journilist "the best sedan in the world for the price".
"it leaves the competion looking old school" talk about being try hard. its not that all inspiring. they made it look uglier and they made the v8s faster. its now on par with fords handling which has stayed the same for 4 years now. the 6s are slower, use more fuel and the base omega has air con as a $2000 option. for 1 billion dollars they really could have done better.

Talk about bias!

Comon guys do you really think that Ford should release a DVD featuring the BF II release? I would of thought that Ford have got bigger problems financially to worry about than this at the moment. Our turn will come and if Ford sits on its hands during the Orion’s release (which they wont), then we would all have something to ***** about.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Paid advertising isn't the same as editorial. In 40 years of reading I've thought Wheels has focussed on excellence and kept its integrity. Have you Ford guys already forgotten the huge Territory special edition and Wheels relentless barracking for the Territory? For the last few years Wheels has consistently described the Falcon and Territory as the best Australian cars. Obviously a new Commodore changes things a bit but the magazine still recognises whatever's best at the time.

The ones to be PO'd a about Wheels would be Toyota. It doesn't take much to see that Wheels thinks Toyos are very ordinary and Toyota treats Wheels with equal contempt. In the WASP (active stabilty tests) last year Wheels chose the base models of all tested vehicles - except they couldn't get the base models from Toyota (Prado, Camry and Corolla) because Toyota knew their base models would perform badly. Could have saved themselve the trouble because the beefed up models didn't really do any better (outperformed by Falcon and Territory).

No I have a lot of time for Wheels - not so influenced by advertsing contracts and plenty of driver, technical and engineering expertise unlike those effete wannabes like Drive, Carsguide etc.

Spotty the P76 was not a dud award by any stretch but that is really another thread. None of the COTYs was ever far wrong.

I think anybody who has driven a car knows that Toyotas are fairly plain vehicles. Mechanically, they are fantastic and they go forever. Their re-sale value is a testament to the fact that Toyota have created an illusion of quality. But for me, I see Toyotas as having the most uncomfortable, boring interiors ever. The Camry also is not a car that focuses on performance or "sex appeal". How many people drag in a Camry?

The Camry is simple an extremely conservative family car that suits the purpose of many people in Australia. Their image simply doesn't suit Wheels purpose.

I think Wheels are ok. Yeah, Holden do get more page-space but I do think Holden pay for a lot of it so therefore they deserve it. There have been some good Falcon reviews in Wheels and I accept that Ford supporters in Victoria are a minority so I don't expect the same focus or attention as a Commodore supporter.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Polyal

OK, firstly, try not to turn this into a slagging match as Im curious about others opinions.

Wheels seems to give a fair and "unbiased" approach to most of its articles, but something that erks me is the amount of PR that Holden gets through them. Im not saying that they are completly biased, perhaps slanted is a good way of putting it.

I find it hard to believe that there is not some kind of influence, whether this be because Holden throws more cash at them, or maybe Ford doesn't even bother.

But why is it that there are alway Holden "bonuses" attached to the magazine.

Examples would include the latest 2007 Holden Calander (they had one for 2006 aswell), that VE DVD (that was probably more to do with holden), a whole magazine just for Peter Brock etc etc.

Tell me the last time there was Ford anything?

It all seems rather convieniant for Holden, Wheels (like Motor) has a huge following, and to not have any other manufacturer (so not just Ford) represented in their "mechandise" seems a little fishy to me.

Either way I still buy the mag, just an observation I guess. Personally I dont think its a good look for a magazine in any industry to continuely push one companies/manufacturers goods.

What does everyone else think?

I think it more just aimed at the fact that the single biggest launch/announcement this year has been VE - thats a fact whether you like it or not.

They did a special mini-mag for the Territory when it came out too, and you can bank on the same thing happening with Orion.

I dare say the calendars provided with this issue would be a gimmick from Holden i.e. they would have supplied them, if Ford had have done the same thing then you would probably be able to get one too.

I don't think Wheels is biased, its the only mag I have a subscription to mainly because I cannot stand the bogan journalism of MOTOR.

[Ford_Boy]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Talk about bias!

Comon guys do you really think that Ford should release a DVD featuring the BF II release? I would of thought that Ford have got bigger problems financially to worry about than this at the moment. Our turn will come and if Ford sits on its hands during the Orion’s release (which they wont), then we would all have something to ***** about.

out of curiosity, why did you single my post out when your reply has nothing to do with what i said? i never mentioned a dvd.

edit: i read the top line and i realise now. it may seem biased but the facts speak for themselves. the 6s do use more fuel, they are slower and imo they look ugly. 1 billion dollars should have produced all round better cars then the ford equivelant that has virtually stayed the same for the past 4 years.

[GK]

Originally Posted by b2tf

They did a special mini-mag for the Territory when it came out too, and you can bank on the same thing happening with Orion.

I have that mag, and a fine one it is too.

They heaped praise upon the BA, upon the Territory and still do, and will heap praise on the Orion also!

GK

[AUIII XR8 MAN]

Holden is willing to pay the money to Motor mag to put these extra on with the mag & Motor is happy to put them there to help sell more mag over Wheels mag. I did think this help Holden stay in front by having a in your face marketing campain, Ford should be doing the same.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Ford_Boy

out of curiosity, why did you single my post out when your reply has nothing to do with what i said? i never mentioned a dvd.

edit: i read the top line and i realise now. it may seem biased but the facts speak for themselves. the 6s do use more fuel, they are slower and imo they look ugly. 1 billion dollars should have produced all round better cars then the ford equivelant that has virtually stayed the same for the past 4 years.

Hi Ford Boy you got it in the end! Sorry I did not want to offend you but sometimes we all lose our head with a bit of bias. I just thought it was funny that everyone was criticising Wheels for extra bias towards Holden while in the same breath some people exercised the same level of bias in their own comments. I also respect that this is a Ford forum and everyone here rightly so is passionate about their cars and their opinions. It's all good.

At the moment Holden have something new to sell and with the auto industry currently in a global crisis, we need to get excited about new arrivals like the VE otherwise everything we love about our gas guzzling V8 and big cubed six's will be lost (Ford Falcon included) in less than a generation after all, experts are saying it is happening now!

And it does happen too! Look at Oldsmobile for example. Oldsmobile’s was one of the first Auto car maker's on the planet, yet when the upmarket Olds become redundant in the modern auto age, not even the companies heritage could save it from the GM axe!

The BA got some of the best auto coverage (deservingly so) in this country that I can remember. At the time I got caught up in the hype, but latter I thought that after the AU was publicly caned, the car mags themselves had a moral responsibility and a duty of care to do their part in helping to make the BA a success through print, not just because Ford had a lot riding on the BA, but if it sank because it was harshly treated or even just ignored like the 380, it would devastate the auto industry in this country overall, and ultimately having a direct impact on the car mags themselves.

As it turned out, the BA was a fantastic improvement over the AU but really most of the flaws of the BA no matter how trivial but often raised on this forum have really never really made it into the mainstream through public print, so I think that the car mags have done a good job on this score.

Btw this is not implying that the BA is a dog either, far from it but there have certainly been build issues like primer only used under the bonnet (a common complaint by BA owners in the early days) and software teething problems that dogged the early turbos, in the first BA models in particular that were not really highlighted to Joe Public at all. The car was simply portrayed as “as good as it gets” at the time

Also Wheels would be loving it too because they would be selling more mags than they would otherwise be when they are between new models. I say let the baby have its candy because at least there will still be an audience listening when the Orion arrives. I hope!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Spotty

Now this has got me thinking....given the problems the BA has had do you think Wheels magazine would ever have the balls to withdraw the COTY award .....and saying to the public, sorry we got it wrong! Nup I dont think they would. I remember the P76 got the COTY am sure there were a few other dud awards along the way as well........

There was a comment in a story about the VE that said something along the lines of giving the VT the Wheels Car of the Year Award was a bit of a dud call seeing all the quality problems they had with it.


As for the Holden calender, it will make great kindling :SaiyanSmi

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There was a comment in a story about the VE that said something along the lines of giving the VT the Wheels Car of the Year Award was a bit of a dud call seeing all the quality problems they had with it.

And the fact there were bugger all mechanical advancements over the VS.

Just imagine the roasting a Hyundai or Citroen would get if it had Holdens shitbox Alloytec V6 by Wheels/Motor, jeez you wouldn't hear the end of it, yet the lack of torque, roughness, reluctance to rev and bad soundtrack only has one negative line dedicated to it, at the worst.

[Dr Smith]

It's no different to the "special" and promotions you see in a supermarket. They are manufacturer funded completely just to maintain the "support" by the big two supermarket chains. In fact the manufacturers pay Coles and Safeway/Woolworths to get the isle space and positioning and any sales or discounts are almost always fully supported by the supplier. It's called having a monopoly, or in this case a duopoly of the retail market.

[chich]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I think anybody who has driven a car knows that Toyotas are fairly plain vehicles. Mechanically, they are fantastic and they go forever. Their re-sale value is a testament to the fact that Toyota have created an illusion of quality. But for me, I see Toyotas as having the most uncomfortable, boring interiors ever. The Camry also is not a car that focuses on performance or "sex appeal". How many people drag in a Camry?

The Camry is simple an extremely conservative family car that suits the purpose of many people in Australia. Their image simply doesn't suit Wheels purpose.

I agree that Toyota does produce fairly plain vehicles, but at the end of the day they are engineered properly, built properly, are ultra reliable and are worth more because people are prepared to pay a little more for this. 99% of the wider community simply uses a car for the purposes of getting from point A to point B, and they want to do it in a car thats reliable and comfortable. They really couldn't give a rats if it did 0-100km/h in 4 sec - unlike the Ford and Holden brigade.

I'd love to know where you came to the conclusion that Toyota have created an 'illusion' of quality. In addition to my Fairmont, we have 3 Toyota's in our garage - a Corolla, a HiAce and a Camry and believe me, the quality is there. All three cars have been looked after, have worked hard and havn't put a foot wrong. The Corolla has covered 218,000 HARD kilometres and still refuses to die or break. Just the other week my dad had it revving at 7,500rpm (indicated redline is 6,000rpm) for a good 5 minutes and it obliged. Interior wise its still in excellent condition and it doesn't have any squeeks or rattles all these years on. If that ain't quality i don't know what is..



In regards to Wheels magazine, i agree with new2ford in saying that they are fairly un-biased and say it the way it is. If anyone is biased its Motor Mag. Most of their reviews end something like this... "Car A handles better, has better build quality, looks better but our pick is Car B because its faster". They're a pack of uneducated fools - no wonder all the editors that start off at Motor migrate to Wheels.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Ford_Boy

im just sick of the countless holden ads. im always seeing the ad when they have statements made from journilist "the best sedan in the world for the price".
"it leaves the competion looking old school" talk about being try hard. its not that all inspiring. they made it look uglier and they made the v8s faster. its now on par with fords handling which has stayed the same for 4 years now. the 6s are slower, use more fuel and the base omega has air con as a $2000 option. for 1 billion dollars they really could have done better.

Very wrong my friend, They handle better and run just as good on fuel. It's a shame the base gets 180 and 4 speed because the 195 and 5 speed kills, It's as fast if not faster and quieter and just a smooth as anything on the road.
The whole package of the car beats ford hands down and that is the truth, It's the base engine tranny that keeps it close. Both suspension set-ups are great, I cant speak on the base but i'm going on what i have been told and it's been said it handles fantastic, The sportier suspension set-up too me is perfect. And the 195 V6 has plenty of go.

[Cespenar]

Hmmm... I wanted to wade in here, but there is to much bias and heresay. Gotta look up some other thread.

[Paull]

I always thought that Wheels was more objective in their reporting. However, when it comes to Motor Mag, they are complete shockers when it comes to being biased, with a red influence!!! of course.

[mcnews]

I don't understand how any enthusiast can like the Holden V6. If you get up it the noises it makes are atrocious and has me waiting for conrods to come out the side. It is the most horrible and agricultural feeling/sounding engine I have ever had the displeasure of having to spend any time with. I couldn't give a crap if it looked like a Porsche and handled like a Porsche, I could not live with that engine. It is so atrocious it would make me want to rip it out and melt it down for scrap metal.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I don't understand how any enthusiast can like the Holden V6. If you get up it the noises it makes are atrocious and has me waiting for conrods to come out the side. It is the most horrible and agricultural feeling/sounding engine I have ever had the displeasure of having to spend any time with. I couldn't give a crap if it looked like a Porsche and handled like a Porsche, I could not live with that engine. It is so atrocious it would make me want to rip it out and melt it down for scrap metal.

My mate brought a VS Berlina and 3 days later, the V6 blew up.

Fair enough it could happen to any engine, but I don't like the V6 at all, regardless if they make more power then the RB30 in my car or not.

I've been in and driven V6s Commies before. I would rather the Nissan RB30 any day of the week.

Not only that, but there's a VN Calais a few doors up and I cringe everytime it drives past.

Gigantic vibrating bucket of bolts, on wheels. ***Shivers***

[GXL078]

They only made 22,000 P76s. They first 22,000 of any Australian built car will have teething problems, eg: VE recalls, how many are they up to now?

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I don't understand how any enthusiast can like the Holden V6. If you get up it the noises it makes are atrocious and has me waiting for conrods to come out the side. It is the most horrible and agricultural feeling/sounding engine I have ever had the displeasure of having to spend any time with. I couldn't give a crap if it looked like a Porsche and handled like a Porsche, I could not live with that engine. It is so atrocious it would make me want to rip it out and melt it down for scrap metal.

I would agree with you on the base model Commodores, But not with the 195 alloytech engine it's so much better then the base engine it makes you cry, And when i took my Calais back too avis the lady told me almost everyone that brings back the base model VE's VZ's with the 175-180 engine they complain about how loud and crap they sound, But no complaints with the high output engine since VE 195.

[Paull]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

They only made 22,000 P76s. They first 22,000 of any Australian built car will have teething problems, eg: VE recalls, how many are they up to now?

"We've spent 1 billion dollars developing 3 recalls so far, aren't we clever" :