WHAT THE !!!.... Fog Lights Vs Hi-Beam

[Black Panther]

I drive with mine on all the time and I have had police in front of me and driving towards me and have never been pulled over, (touch wood) however some of my mates have been pulled up but only been given a warning. Must depend on if he or she got some action the night before. :

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by Black Panther

I drive with mine on all the time and I have had police in front of me and driving towards me and have never been pulled over, (touch wood) however some of my mates have been pulled up but only been given a warning. Must depend on if he or she got some action the night before. :

I dont think there is a law for them in QLD.

[VSSII]

If you look an NRMA websites and the like foggies are apparently the number one complaint! People not exercising common sense and using them 24/7. I think they can be just like driving with your high beams on. If it's raining or whatever then it's no biggy but why would you want to imitate some suzuki gti driver by using them in perfect weather or with your headlights? Just think of other roadusers.

[Silver Ghia]

Can someone please explain WHY they have to have front foglights on when there's no fog and its perfectly clear?

I understand that this practice actually reduces your visibility beyond the headlight beam, as its brighter closer to the car, which your eyes adjust to.

As far as rear foglights are concerned, these should have been made illegal by ADR's years ago. It is most distracting and quite blinding when following a car with its rear foglights on, and you also can't see their brake lights go on. When I pass these cars I give a small toot of the horn. Then they wonder whats going on...... Wish they'll wake up!!

[Des]

To answer the original question, yes being caught with your high beams on at the wrong time should be a bigger and badder fine/points reduction then being caught with your front foglights on at the wrong time.
The effects of foglights to oncoming traffic can and will be debated until the cows come home (and beyond), but no-one can argue that high beams aren't dangerous to uncoming traffic....

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

As far as rear foglights are concerned, these should have been made illegal by ADR's years ago. It is most distracting and quite blinding when following a car with its rear foglights on, and you also can't see their brake lights go on. When I pass these cars I give a small toot of the horn. Then they wonder whats going on...... Wish they'll wake up!!

Rubbish; - on the contrary, the rear fog lights should have been *mandated* for the entire NEW market vehicle fleet many years ago (and might well yet), WITH an suitable enforcement-of-use program targetted at the ignorant.

I have recently advocated a German like 50 metre rule at which point in visibility terms they may be switched ON, this may take time to adopt, so for now we say 'causing reduced visibility' as you all know.

Your standard 5 watt taillights are utterly useless/almost pointless in even light to moderate rainfall during daylight hours when on a freeway or other high-speed road; here, you see the physical car looming out of the mist *before* the standard taillights appear. Then we have the heavy rain, gravel roads where dust masks the taillights, bushfire smoke conditions, heavy snowfall and even fog sometimes with which to contend in this joyous land. Be thankful for 10-15 years of relative drought.

Rule 219 deals with ANY complianced (or not) light that causes 'undue glare'.
Rule 217 deals with rear fog lights. See the first point below:

Notes:
* WA and NSW are for now the only two jurisdictions that prohibit the use of front fog lights in clear conditions through seperate regulations. This will CHANGE SHORTLY with NATIONAL IMPACT - with the final draft UPDATING of existing Rule 217 now complete, to include a front fog light prohibition when in clear conditions. The new rule effectively prohibits the use of front fog lights "unless the driver is driving under hazardous weather conditions causing REDUCED visibility".
Once this rule is passed into state and territory law, I expect later this year, a mild update (2007 sometime) to the new lighting rule, - to allow the use of the lamps when driving on 'park lights' (sidelights) both day and night, under those conditions above.

* One postee wrote in this thread that front fog lights are only yellow. They are not, most are white optic. Those that are yellow, and 'compliant' are known as 'selective yellow'.

*

Jimmy_C wrote: My BA has the bottom lights but they are more driving lights than foggies. They come on with the parkers and are the same as a torch light so they dont do **** but are hard wired into the light circuit.

Jimmy, the BA lamps are NOT front fog lights, NOR are they 'driving lamps' in interpretation by any stretch of the alcohol fuelled brain - used to aid high-beam performance. The particular original BA lamps you have are NOT ADR compliant, we could not find an ADR for 'decorative lamp', hence modification was made to a 'cornering' lamp (ask around and Ford). (Even then, I'd dearly love to send one of these modded lamp units to Germany for independent photometric compliance testing for that criteria:-) NB - See the 1996 MX6 for a front fog light that just might fit:-)

* Front fog lights are not 'daytime running lamps'.

HOW TO TELL IF THAT LAMP IS AN ACTUAL 'DRIVING LAMP' or 'FRONT FOG LIGHT'. This applies to aftermarket lamp units or those on your vehicle right now. (Not applicable to VX-VY Commodore SS fog units only, these do not comply with UN/ECE). LOOK closely at the lens, you will see an "E mark", this is the letter 'E' in a circle with a number next to it, this 'E' represents world homologation, the number next to this represents the country that tested and certified the product for world use, eg (E1) is Germany, (E13) is Luxembourg and so on.

Front fog light: Near the E mark will be the designation "02B", here, the letter "B" or "b" tells you the lamp is a complianced front fog light.

** UN/ECE and ADR wired to operate on park (sidelights), low and high-beam.
A pilot light (green) is optional, the tell-tale symbol is unique and mandatory on new market vehicles. In severe conditions - you use your parkers and front fogs only, your speed will be reduced, naturally.

Driving lamp: Near the E mark will be the designation "HR", here, the letter "R" advises that the lamp is a world complianced 'driving lamp' - so used to aid high-beam performance. HR-P = halogen driving lamp with a plastic lens!

** UN/ECE wired to operate on high-beam alone. Pilot light blue. Standardised ISO symbol.

WHERE a lamp has both markings, the lamp should operate in the aftermarket 'as sold' by the packaging, or on new market vehicles, as wired.

Basically in this case the lamp lens is used in both forms, in a fog version 'beam-spread' is made by the parabol. My view is that if you want *real* driving light performance, it is better to go a dedicated driving lamp, one not bearing the front fog light compliance marking, bigger the parabol the better for driving lamps.

A rear fog light bears the UN/ECE compliance code: "F00". A car in Australia may bear this code, but often enough the lamp is not connected here. The Euro sourced Fords are connected, and this is proper. (OT-They also have signalled dedicated store-slots for the triangle listed).

This must bear an amber/yellow pilot light. ISO symbol used.

BULB REPLACEMENT UPDATE: If you wish to upgrade your front fog light bulbs, I suggest the marketed 'ALL WEATHER' variety, see Narva, Hella, Phillips, Osram. Avoid Plus 30 or 50 types in complianced front fogs, you need to REDUCE glare in such LOUSY conditions, not increase it, doing so reduces eye fatige caused by constantly varying levels of fog density when light reflects off this.

For driving lamps et al - I suggest the PLUS 30 or 50 variety, again Narva, Hella, Osram or Phillips. Ensure ANY replacement bulbs bear 'E' MARKINGS on the metal body, avoid those that do not - less you eventually fall foul of a random vehicle inspection carried out by police and <your jurisdictions transport agency here>.

[santoitaliano]

how people have headlights/foglights aimed makes a huge difference also...

gee some of those cars with new HID lights from factory are damn bright, like the new BMWs etc..

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Rubbish; - on the contrary, the rear fog lights should have been *mandated* for the entire NEW market vehicle fleet many years ago (and might well yet), WITH an suitable enforcement-of-use program targetted at the ignorant.

Yes, rear fog lights are very useful in the conditions you suggest, however I cannot remember the last time I have seen rear fog lights used in these conditions, only in perfectly clear conditions in peak hour traffic. (I drive around 30,000 km /yr.). Perhaps the situation could be different in NSW or other states where weather conditions may differ.

I believe a very high percentage of drivers with rear foglights are ignorant as to when they should be used. I am also thinking of those Korean cars that dont have any indication light on the dash to show that they are switched on. Surely this setup should have been illegal??

I cannot see that an 'enforcement of use' program will help much either. Simply because there are hardly any police cars on the road. They rely on speed cameras here in Vic.

Seems as though front foglights (or driving lights or whatever is configured) is also a very hazy subject, easily confused by the general public who simply decide to have them on whenever they like, perhaps just to try to intimidate others?

My question still remains unanswered...Why do drivers have foglights on (or driving or 'whatever they are' lights) in perfectly clear conditions, in traffic?

[Kingsley]

There's a huge RTA neon sign just off the freeway at Newcastle that reads " Use fog/driving lamps only in adverse conditions. Fines apply". That includes the clowns who substitute headlights for parkers and foggy's at night.
In short, like every road rule, if you run the risk and break them, you get caught and fined. End of story. And ignorance is no excuse.

[barbarian]

Since the recent topic "Fog Lights banned in SA" was closed for some odd reason, i will reply here

I use my fogies all the time. Just recently one of my globes went bust was a pain in the neck to change it over with a new globe, previous globe were 55wats so decided to change both with 130 wats for a more brighter vision.. muhahha!!

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by barbarian

Since the recent topic "Fog Lights banned in SA" was closed for some odd reason, i will reply here

I use my fogies all the time. Just recently one of my globes went bust was a pain in the neck to change it over with a new globe, previous globe were 55wats so decided to change both with 130 wats for a more brighter vision.. muhahha!!

Well good for you !!!! Hope you also ungraded your wiring to cope with the added drain - would hate to see you melt the wiring harness & burn to the ground. Good thread mine as well !!!

[20focus05]

Barbarian- hope I see you with my 700W of high beams, yes upgraded wiring-LOL

SAPOL-"If fog lights are used when conditions are clear, then you are committing an offence"

Spose you got $160 to burn.

[redranga]

VY and VZ commodores are the worst for this. There lights are mounted on a plastic bumper that flexes as the car hits bumps causing the lights to flicker up and down dazzling you.

I just flick on my 500watts of high beams whenever one is coming the other way.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by barbarian

Since the recent topic "Fog Lights banned in SA" was closed for some odd reason, i will reply here

I use my fogies all the time. Just recently one of my globes went bust was a pain in the neck to change it over with a new globe, previous globe were 55wats so decided to change both with 130 wats for a more brighter vision.. muhahha!!

The reason it was closed is due to posts like yours and the usual replies that follow.
The threads become like perpetual motion until closed.