Modifications, insurance, the law.

[ljf12]

Firstly I am in no way judging or criticising anybody.

My question is this, if you do the normal performance modifications (including brake upgrades) to modern era cars (ecu tuning, intakes, exhausts etc) is the vehicle still legally registered. If it is not legally registered will any insurance company honour your policy in the event where they have to cough up.

I have recently been enquiring about modifying an XR6 turbo(injectors,cat back exhaust, tune etc). Correct me if I am wrong, I have now found out that if you modify you need to have every thing approved (passed by an authorised engineer ?) to legally register the vehicle , this includes meeting emission/ noise standards etc.

I then spoke to one of the firms that carry out these modifications, I asked them if approvals/permits are required, basically told no one bothers. I asked about insurance, was given the name of a company that cover modifications ( I am with SGIO ,they only say that the car must be legally registered ) Do insurance companies that cover modifications still cover them if they have not been approved ?

If as I understand you need legal approvals when you modify, should the firms that carry out the work notify the customer of the legal requirements for a street registered vehicle ( maybe they do before you go ahead, I only made some phone enquiries ).

[ratter]

legally no, we let our customers know where we can, many don't want to hear it.

As it is at present, it's up to the owner to ensure the car remains legal, half the stuff you buy from places like autobarn etc is illegal on your car, the staff in these shops do not normally tell you this.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I declared all my mods on the old V8 to my insurance, they didn't seem to care that I hadn't seen an 'engineer', just wanted to know it was on there. I got pulled up by police and defected for being too low, fixed this and made sure insurance was notified in case it ever turned up on file.

Never had a problem making a claim, however I was never at fault so not sure what would happen if I was. This was QLD by the way. Ratter is on the money though, most will stick their fingers in their ears to plead ignorance should they come under scrutiny from the law / transport department. Just because ever 2nd V8 commodore has an OTR with no maf doesn't make it legal.

[ljf12]

The last time I modified an engine the only emission control was a PVC valve, it was never an issue to change cams, manifolds, heads etc etc (within reason).

So I guess I am living in the past, I read about all the amazing power available with current vehicles (with much better driveability than years ago with lumpy cams and carburettors), the workshops that specialise freely advertise their products, you can buy generic tunes and gear online.
I will readily admit that I thought there was no legal issues with my planned modifications to the XR6T. I wonder how many people are driving modified vehicles (I have seen dealers advertising them), not realising that if they run up the clacker of Edwards Aston Martin there is a good chance they won't be covered.

[JC]

Having recently bought a slightly modified GT-E, I can say that Coles insurance were OK with suspension mods at +/- 1", Rims at +/- 1" in diameter, and the exhaust because I am over 25! So new car is insured, with full disclosure of mods having been made..

[ljf12]

What's a PVC valve ?, PCV sounds better. Old and senile.

[LTDHO]

You will find it hard for an insurer to cover an illegally modified car. However most pwners claim ignorance, especially with mods that can not be picked with naked eye (ECU, injectors, Cams, etc.).

It's up to you.

I've seen claims denied due to the tyres being too worn, but never to wide (unless they pass outside the guards)

If you are sensible, then so will they be.

[gtfpv]

did you know if you put the darkest legal tint , on just about any car , your window tint will be too dark and therefore illegal .

[steve.zissou]

whats a modification and whats a non oem replacement.

do you have to replace your exhaust with a ford one

do you have to replace your tyres with the same one that comes standard

my intercooler got hit buy a rock, does it need to be a factory item

if i replace my [-socks-] shocks with non oem ones is that a modification

just something to think about

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

did you know if you put the darkest legal tint , on just about any car , your window tint will be too dark and therefore illegal .

How is the darkest legal tint illegal?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Ben73

How is the darkest legal tint illegal?

If the glass is factory tint it will be illegal if clear it will be ok!!!

[LASTXR]

Originally Posted by Ben73

How is the darkest legal tint illegal?

Most factory glass has a light tint
in it to start with so the darkest legal
timt needs to go on clear glass to keep
it legal

[El Venom]

I found getting a quote on an ed wagon was near impossible as while being legally modified (well at the time working with the engineer to finalise approval) it wasnt the mods that the the engineer was consulted with and had to get approval from that were the problem, it was seemingly pointless stuff like the fact I had changed the paint from the factory metalic to a non metalic paint selected from the australain standards automotive colour chart and the fact I had replaced the factory central locking with an aftermarket system with alarm.

[93EB_SXR6]

A friend was at fault in a traffic collision in a heavily modified ED XR6 (rear end collision) and his insurance had no issues paying. Don't know if this is anything to go by but just my personal experience.

[Spurious]

Years ago I couldn't even get a quote from GIO for my XF, as soon as I mentioned extractors they shut the door. "it's modified, we can't offer you cover' was the response!
Went to NRMA got full cover & an agreed value no probs.

In Tas' I'm with RACT, all my mods are listed but any new ones need to be approved. This means if I make a claim for a total loss & they find an extra mod, they could deny the payout....which they would no doubt.
Sick of the premium & cover amount going up & down though.

Premium went up last year & cover dropped, just got my renewal for 2014, premium has dropped & cover dropped some more....& they call it an "agreed" value...I didn't agree to the cover amount dropping.

At the end of the day they want your money, but things get messy if you don't tell them about non standard parts & you make a claim.

I'd like to **** my steering wheel off & get a sporty...fat chance.

[Dash_XR]

You never know if your modified car is actually insured properly till you stack it, lots of clever wording and clauses makes sure of this. Insurance companies sole goal is to make money and one way of doing this is getting out of an expensive obligation on a technicality. Only way to guarantee you'll be insured is to leave it standard.

[kempy311]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

You never know if your modified car is actually insured properly till you stack it, lots of clever wording and clauses makes sure of this. Insurance companies sole goal is to make money and one way of doing this is getting out of an expensive obligation on a technicality. Only way to guarantee you'll be insured is to leave it standard.

But everybody knows that's boring.

[Dash_XR]

Oh I'm not saying leave it standard I just mean that's the only way you'll know for sure. For the rest of us it just depends on the ruthlessness of your claims department.

[2011G6E]

Best to open up and let your insurer know about every single thing you have done to the car. That way they can't complain when a claim is made about something you haven't told them about. Even things you might not have thought of...with our insurer (Allianze) we rang and told them about our Triton, and I mentioned everything it had extra...bar, canopy, etc. I then realised I hadn't mentioned the UHF radio and antenna mount on the nudge bar, and the spotlights. The woman tool down the details and said "Thanks for letting us know...it doesn't change your cost for the policy, but it does mean that if you had an accident, you'd most likely find you just got the bar replaced but not the lights or antenna..."

As for mods you know are illegal, there's the nasty fact you could end up in court after an accident...and you really don't want to have to explain why you have an illegally modified vehicle and have had an accident, even if what was modded couldn't have contributed to the accident...

[xisled]

I worked in claims for 5 years.

If you read policy PDS, all insurance company will have a statement saying all modifications must be roadworthy and legal and listed on the policy. All mods a required to be engineered to be legal, if they are listed and not legal then it's basically the same as being not listed.

Don't fall into the trap that they are listed it means they are covered. It's like an insurance company will insure a FPV GT under a P platers name, but if P plater smashes it, they will not be covered because a P plater can't legally drive a GT. Insurance will be happy to take the money but it's the responsibility of the owner to ensure the do not breach the policy.

With mods and illegally modded cars, it's a chance people take. Most claims will pass no problem, but there is always a chance of not being covered. Up to if you want to take a chance.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by marv&ro

Most factory glass has a light tint
in it to start with so the darkest legal
timt needs to go on clear glass to keep
it legal

Fair enough. My old car had privacy glass on the rear so I only got the front windows tinted.
Pretty sure the ranger had clear glass, so I jut got darkest legal al over. Which isn't overly dark at all during the day.

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by xisled

I worked in claims for 5 years.

If you read policy PDS, all insurance company will have a statement saying all modifications must be roadworthy and legal and listed on the policy. All mods a required to be engineered to be legal, if they are listed and not legal then it's basically the same as being not listed.

Don't fall into the trap that they are listed it means they are covered. It's like an insurance company will insure a FPV GT under a P platers name, but if P plater smashes it, they will not be covered because a P plater can't legally drive a GT. Insurance will be happy to take the money but it's the responsibility of the owner to ensure the do not breach the policy.

With mods and illegally modded cars, it's a chance people take. Most claims will pass no problem, but there is always a chance of not being covered. Up to if you want to take a chance.

This isn't quite right. There is a range of modifications in the Light Vehicle Modification Code of Practice that are legal without requiring one off engineering.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Fair enough. My old car had privacy glass on the rear so I only got the front windows tinted.
Pretty sure the ranger had clear glass, so I jut got darkest legal al over. Which isn't overly dark at all during the day.

Depends on what model ranger you have, XLT & Wildtrak have privacy glass in rear doors & back window.

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by noflac52

This isn't quite right. There is a range of modifications in the Light Vehicle Modification Code of Practice that are legal without requiring one off engineering.

Would that mean basic stuff like reasonable lowering, suspension mods like swaybars and shockies, tint, exhaust, tune and cold air?

This is a real murky area. Seems to be almost pot luck if you have to claim on insurance. I guy in my club has a Kenne Bell on his XR8 (not engineered), was involved in a single car accident and wrecked his front. shannons paid up without an issue. I called them up about a Vortech for my XR8 later and was told all has to be legal and plated etc etc. Who knows???

[pbk1776]

Sme mods are ADR approve - again you get engineers to mod plate your car

[noflac52]

Mod plates aren't required in NSW all the data is now held on RMS computer and can be accessed by police and other relevant authorities.
The NCOP for light vehicles is available on the website and so are the ADRs. When making any mods consult the NCOP and if the mods are affected by ADRs the relevant ones are referred to so that you can look them up as well so that you can keep the mod 100% legal. If engineering is required it will tell you in the NCOP. A lot of companies also get pre approval for their products a lot don't. It doesn't mean that you can't use them but they will be subject to engineering approval if they fall into that category.

If you follow the guidelines you will know what you can and can't do and still keep any insurance intact as long as you let the insurance company know about it. If they refuse to insure you after a range of legal mods just take your business else where. There are quite a few companies who have specialist insurance for modified vehicles.

[last fairlane]

Just on this subject of modifications
I had My BA Ghia fitted with vapour injected gas
had a standard light weight tow bar fitted
and the windows tinted
am I supposed to tell the ins company about those things
I have rating one cover
does any one know
thanks John

[ratter]

yes you should so they are covered under your policy