Engine lineages – interesting history

[ebxr8240]

[QUOTE=coupex]The 161ci Vauxhall six introduced in 1961 is very similar to the Holden red six introduced in 1963. In 1965 Vauxhall increased the motor to 202ci, the Holden 202 from 1971 shares an identical bore and stroke 3.625in x 3.25in.[/QUOTE

Imo totally different motors..The cam had solid lifters, it had 5 main bearing crank, 12 port head.. Went a lot harder than the Holden 186 at the time...
Was used extensively in N.Z stock car racing...
Some S/A models got a Chrysler V8..

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

GM decided its facilities weren't up to the task and asked Mercury Marine to assemble its LT-5 Corvette engines. Adds to the boat anchor argument.

Very quick cars at the time.

[ebxr8240]

Do NOT know if this is true..
But I was told years ago .. Caterpillar consigned Ford to develop & design an integral V8 diesel block engine.. Back then most diesel blocks where made in separate pieces and bolted together.. The old Cat V8 diesel shure look like a BIG Clevo engines. Including the heads..

[last fairlane]

This is getting good
OK Harry and Henry joint venture I bet it wasnt called that back in the 50s it had to be then cause Harry died in 1963 I think
There was one Ford that I know of that had the FF 4WD that was Fergusons name for it was the 1969 English V6 Zephyr made for the UK police and the only other use that Ive heard of is in the Jensen Interceptor FF but that used the 6 Litre Chrysler motor
re the 3208 Cat motors I doubt if they have any relationship to a Cleveland they are just too big but I have seen a few 350 cbic inch GMs as in Chev but they are diesels Ford also put a diesel head pump and injectors on the pommy slant 300 ci petrol motors in D series trucks
see ya

[ebxr8240]

I would have thought it was back in 50's when Cat consigned Ford ??..
Hell yea much bigger than Clevo .. But similar casting on 2x's scale..

[500SEC]

A bit hazy on the facts here, but the other irony of the Stag / BL saga was that BL already had the 3.5 ex-Buick V8 but this didn't stop them from developing the same displacement 3.5 for the Stag range. The Stag engine was a pile of cxxp. The Buick 3.5 was a good soldier with a lovely exhaust note.

[buickman]

The Buick line of mtrs has an interesting history and many evolved from the 215 fireball V8.
The V6 Buick mtr that was fitted to the Aussie holdens evolved from a early seventies 350 (5.7) Buick V8 with 2 pots removed like a starfire Holden mtr even the pistons, oil pump , timing cover and bell housing were the same on the early V6 and V8 mtrs.

The line of mtrs that eventually evolved out of the 215 Buick fireballs V8 included the RoverV8 Leyland Aussie V8 the Buick 350, 430 and 455 cu V8’s.

The well known V6 that powered many vehicles in N/A , Turbo charged and supercharged form. It was also an odd fire and even fire mtr at one stage. In 1987 it powered the quickest domestic production car in the US the Buick Grand National turbo V6 even quicker than the Corvette of that year over ¼ mile
It was made into FWD to power the later cars and even the Aussie 253 and 308 had some designs incorporated into them from the Buick V8 mtrs

[Bill M]

Interesting note about the Daimler Benz DB600 series origins.
Can you substantiate this with reputable sources?
I haven't found much detail on prewar (WWII) German aero engine development
cheers
Bill.

[outback_ute]

Very interesting thread!

Originally Posted by jphanna

the hemi 245 was developed by the yanks (request by chrysler aust) to beat the monaro. they felt the 225 wasnt grunty enough, but the yanks had heaps of problems with the long block initially. probably why they stuck with the 225 for 2 decades....

That doesn't make sense, I thought the Hemi was developed in Adelaide. Chrysler Aust certainly weren't using the 225 slant six for two decades, only one. I remember an article in Street Machine years ago, they were also going to do a 215ci Hemi, looked at a bigger version for US pickup use and also 5cyl and 4cyl versions. Before deciding on the Hemi configuration they also considered V6 and OHC.

eb2fairmont - did the sill spacing stay the same with the FG?

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

The Toyota 1600 4AGE is a direct copy off the Lotus Ford twin cam engine ...

Lotus twin cam was only 2v/cyl, was the 4AGE based on the BDA Cosworth engine?

Originally Posted by last fairlane

A couple of things I read about in the 60s was the Repco Brabham 5000 was made from two Peugot 4 cylinder motors welded to gether then stroked and bored

You might be thinking of Jim Hawkers Peugeot 403 V8, he made his own block and machined down the conrods to share the crankpins (may have made a crank too). The engine is (or was) in the museum at Phillip Island.

One interesting thing about the Holden V8 is the RH bank is "forward" to suit RHD cars. I thought the Datsun L-series motor looks very similar to the BMW 4/6cyl ohc. The Standard Vanguard motor is a classic - the same engine powering a sportscar and a tractor! Corvette ZR1 LT5 motor was designed by Lotus.

500SEC - I think that was inter-company rivalry, the same reason the Jag XJ40 was designed so a vee engine would not fit (they were worried the Rover V8 would replace the AJ16 they were working on), and that ended up causing a lot of hassle when they got around to making a V12 version!

[jphanna]

[QUOTE=outback_ute]Very interesting thread!


That doesn't make sense, I thought the Hemi was developed in Adelaide.

when i get the chance i will send you the link to the engineer yank that described the whole process in finite detail if you like. give me a day or so.

[last fairlane]

Just a few notes
the Hemi 6 was made in 215 ci form for the Centura and some of the Dodge (Valiant) utes the Dodge utes were the low spec ones usually bench seat 3 on the tree and no chrome at all probably the only ones that didnt rust also the 245 ci heavy duty were used in Dodge trucks up to 15 tonne gross 8 tonne trucks but they had from memory different fly wheel and bell housing bolts the ears on the back had extra bolt holes
now did any one read about the complete engine assembly plant from Lonsdale in SA ripped up and sent to Austria where they made Jeeps have a look at a Jeep 4 litre high output motor its a 245 hemi with fuel injection
Wait till we get to Renault trucks that morphed into Macks or Pommy ERFs Nee Foden that turned into Western stars and Ford Louisvilles that turned into Sterlings
LETS KEEP THIS THREAD GOING ITS GOOD TO USE MY BRAIN AGAIN

[Wally]

Risking an assault of righteous indignation, the story that went around when the Clevo was introduced here, was that it was developed by a bunch of expat GM guys who had followed their boss, Bunkie Knudsen, over to Ford. I don't know if there is any truth to this?

[123Cat]

Im pretty sure that a while back ford was shipping their Taurus blocks to Yamaha or to get them machined then shipping them back and putting them in cars , cant ford machine a block?

I read that the forging dies for a lot of manufacturers are made in India

[123Cat]

For you carb heads

When the first Spitfires went inverted in battle to get away from the BF109
What do you think happened to the engine when you turn an SU carb with a float bowl upside , down

[FrogInASock]

Originally Posted by 123Cat

For you carb heads

When the first Spitfires went inverted in battle to get away from the BF109
What do you think happened to the engine when you turn an SU carb with a float bowl upside , down

Exactly right! If a 109 found a Spit behind it, the Kraut only had to dive and the Spit would cough and splutter. The DB engines had mechanical fuel injection because of the inverted V12's, and so could dive and climb all day (or as long as their limited fuel tanks lasted)

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by 123Cat

Im pretty sure that a while back ford was shipping their Taurus blocks to Yamaha or to get them machined then shipping them back and putting them in cars , cant ford machine a block?

I read that the forging dies for a lot of manufacturers are made in India

One of the Zetec engines, the Zetec SE, was developed in colaboration with Yamaha. It came in a 1.3 (Fiesta) and 1.7 (Puma) and was under the Sigma codename

[123Cat]

Originally Posted by FrogInASock

Exactly right! If a 109 found a Spit behind it, the Kraut only had to dive and the Spit would cough and splutter. The DB engines had mechanical fuel injection because of the inverted V12's, and so could dive and climb all day (or as long as their limited fuel tanks lasted)

The engine went rich ,very rich, dangerous in combat

And my next question is who is the young lady that fixed the problem ,

someone must know?

[123Cat]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

One of the Zetec engines, the Zetec SE, was developed in colaboration with Yamaha. It came in a 1.3 (Fiesta) and 1.7 (Puma) and was under the Sigma codename

I think I know the reason why Yamaha machined the Ford blocks

[123Cat]

[QUOTE=ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by coupex

The 161ci Vauxhall six introduced in 1961 is very similar to the Holden red six introduced in 1963. In 1965 Vauxhall increased the motor to 202ci, the Holden 202 from 1971 shares an identical bore and stroke 3.625in x 3.25in.[/QUOTE

Imo totally different motors..The cam had solid lifters, it had 5 main bearing crank, 12 port head.. Went a lot harder than the Holden 186 at the time...
Was used extensively in N.Z stock car racing...
Some S/A models got a Chrysler V8..

Do you know the reason the Titanic sunk , ? Not engine related sorry , but

metallurgy , you know that engines are made from metal

[ohzone]

Just as an interest I pulled this snippet off Wikipedia

The Koenigsegg CCR used a modified, Rotrex supercharged Ford Modular 4-valve DOHC 4.7L V8, which produced 806 hp (601 kW), to achieve a top speed of 241 mph (388 km/h). This certified top speed was recorded on February 28, 2005 in Nardo, Italy and broke the McLaren F1's world record for fastest production car. [15] The accomplishment was recognized by Guinness World Records in 2005, who gave the Koenigsegg CCR the official title of World's Fastest Production Car. The Koenigsegg record was broken several months later by the Bugatti Veyron. This engine is the basis for Koenigsegg's twin-supercharged flexible fuel V8 seen in the CCX.

[ZC001]

The Triumph Stag V8 was 3.0 litre, not 3.5 as someone claimed.
It was based on a 4 cylinder that Triumph built and supplied to SAAB (who at that stage mainly used 2 strokes).
Triumph only used the 1.5L four cylinder in their own cars after the V8 came out in the Stag

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by ZC001

The Triumph Stag V8 was 3.0 litre, not 3.5 as someone claimed.
It was based on a 4 cylinder that Triumph built and supplied to SAAB (who at that stage mainly used 2 strokes).
Triumph only used the 1.5L four cylinder in their own cars after the V8 came out in the Stag

As said, two Dolimite Sprint engines.. The Rover motor is NOT ohc..

[stevepet]

Love this thread. Has anyone heard that Ford designed the 4.2 motor in the GQ patrol if you take one of these apart ot is amazing how similar they are could also explain their nasty habit of doing head gaskets and heads as well.

Cheers

Steve

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by 123Cat

The engine went rich ,very rich, dangerous in combat

And my next question is who is the young lady that fixed the problem ,

someone must know?

Ahh! That would be Miss Shilling and her "fix" for the SU carb on the Merlin was a diaphragm with a calibrated hole in the float chamber. It was known as Miss shillings orifice
:
cheers
Bill.

[jphanna]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Ahh! That would be Miss Shilling and her "fix" for the SU carb on the Merlin was a diaphragm with a calibrated hole in the float chamber. It was known as Miss shillings orifice
:
cheers
Bill.

magic stuff this,

our beloved falcon 6, (which i have had 2 incarnations of), dates back to 1960 in australia, but was it a direct copy of a yank 6? how far back does the yank 6 version go, and i wonder what the yanks would think of australia still using a streched and massage version of it after so long?

[aquahead2001]

Originally Posted by jphanna

magic stuff this,

our beloved falcon 6, (which i have had 2 incarnations of), dates back to 1960 in australia, but was it a direct copy of a yank 6? how far back does the yank 6 version go, and i wonder what the yanks would think of australia still using a streched and massage version of it after so long?

I'm pretty confident that the "Falcon 6" was in fact designed for the Falcon in the states and was originally only used in it. Then it found a home in the compact Fairlanes, and the Mustang.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by jphanna

magic stuff this,

our beloved falcon 6, (which i have had 2 incarnations of), dates back to 1960 in australia, but was it a direct copy of a yank 6? how far back does the yank 6 version go, and i wonder what the yanks would think of australia still using a streched and massage version of it after so long?

They think it's pretty good stuff actually, especially the guys with older Fords looking for more get up and go. They will pay big bucks for a 2V head on their 200 ci and someone is importing containers of the 4.0 into the US for the retrofit market. With the scarcity of the 2V head, one discussion group has even started producing an alloy head, which is suitable for the 250.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by aquahead2001

I'm pretty confident that the "Falcon 6" was in fact designed for the Falcon in the states and was originally only used in it. Then it found a home in the compact Fairlanes, and the Mustang.

Not to forget U.S most sold vehicle.. The F series trucks had these engines also....

[FGII-XR6]

i knew an engineer who was rebuilding a P76 V8 and he would of needed a 2nd mortgage to buy a set of pistons. he measured all the dimensions of a piston and went on a search through a pistion reference book and discovered they were actually holden 173 pistons so he bought 2 sets for about 1/4 the price and had 4 left over
makes you wonder just how much cross over there is

[charlie200]

Honda designed the Crossflow head for the Falcons in the 70s.Holden also tried a Crossflow head but failed in the attempt