Ford committed to factory closures: Graziano

[blk6t]

Originally Posted by westy73

Ok so running with your last point here....

Let's say Falcon can be developed and built 8-10K cheaper overseas somewhere and then imported. If we were to see that sort of cost saving on the Falcon would people then reconsider it ??

I mean most people seem to agree it is great bang for the buck now.
Is it purely a monetary thing preventing it from selling here in the numbers to make it viable for manufacturing ??
Would Aussies buy an imported Falcon that was much cheaper to the hip pocket ?


Interesting thought.

Just in continuation of the discussion, I don't think it's all about the "Falcon", it's about Ford and manufacturing a product in Australia, whether it be a Falcon or another product. The Falcon is a product that the majority of Australian's are no longer interested in, because there is such a large selection of vehicles out there to choose from that tick more consumer boxes.

I think if Ford had dropped the Falcon years ago and commenced building a small or medium car in Australia, it's very possible you would still find it would be expensive to build and the budget may have hindered the vehicle to be competitive in that segment with tech/gadgets etc. Whether this would have kept manufacturing Fords in Australia an option, I think depends on whether it was exported in large numbers, or really at the end of the day it's very hard to answer.

[FalconXV]

I think all the people who were planning to protest, write to Ford etc, now would be the best time to do so.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

I think all the people who were planning to protest, write to Ford etc, now would be the best time to do so.

What exactly would somebody say in such a letter?

"I'm not a shareholder or director of your company but I want you to continue to build a low volume car on which you lose money. If you chose to come up with a better business plan i.e. stop building them I will be annoyed"

You could sign it "Grandpa Simpson" so they know what voice to read it in.

[jpd80]

Or,
If you stop making Falcons for me to buy second hand, then I'm through with you Ford.....

[GCRXR6]

Ha ha ..... Spammy and JPD80 ..... GOLD.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

image

Bye, have a beautiful time!

And that sums up why ford was always going to go. When ford dropped thd ball in the past and that was far too often, the so called fans turned on those not happy with the ford experience, instead of demanding better from ford. What customers ford couldnt lose posters like this did for them.

Great job.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

And that sums up why ford was always going to go. When ford dropped thd ball in the past and that was far too often, the so called fans turned on those not happy with the ford experience, instead of demanding better from ford. What customers ford couldnt lose posters like this did for them.

Great job.

So people should rush out and buy Kia's out of spite because the Falcon is gone?

What would that show ford?

Customers want cheap FWD cars?


As ford fans we all want to see ford improve, but there is a difference between that and utterly stupid remarks...

[borough]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So people should rush out and buy Kia's out of spite because the Falcon is gone?

What would that show ford?

Customers want cheap FWD cars?


As ford fans we all want to see ford improve, but there is a difference between that and utterly stupid remarks...

My next car purchase will not be out of spite, it will be based upon facts. I bought my Falcon because I always wanted one and it was the only difference to me between Ford and other brands. Remove the Falcon and the rest of the Ford lineup is pretty boring and no better than any other importer, be it Hyundai, Nissan, Kia, Mazda etc.... I've taken the less than stellar after sales service, and if the Falcon was still available when it was time to replace my FG I would have looked at it first.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Great job.

Thanks!

Wait, what?

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by borough

My next car purchase will not be out of spite, it will be based upon facts. I bought my Falcon because I always wanted one and it was the only difference to me between Ford and other brands. Remove the Falcon and the rest of the Ford lineup is pretty boring and no better than any other importer, be it Hyundai, Nissan, Kia, Mazda etc.... I've taken the less than stellar after sales service, and if the Falcon was still available when it was time to replace my FG I would have looked at it first.

Test drove a number of non-falcon vehicles at Ford. What stood out is the Falcon and territory are head and shoulders above all the yank and euro developed Ford product in driving dynamics and comfort. Will easily hold a candle to BMW or Merc for a fraction of price while still being able to be maintained by a local corner shop. Unfortunate to see it go. Falcon was too good to be a Ford product, and too good for the Australian buying public to acknowledge.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Why? .

Because I'm a Ford fan. This is a forum for Ford fans, right?

A Ford is a Ford is a Ford, no matter where it's built.

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Ford used to be a valuable contributor to Australian industry and society. Once 2016 passes they will be no different to any other vehicle importer. Hence I see any loyalty to this brand as blind faith.

The survival of Ford is far, far more important to me than the survival of Australian manufacturing. Call it blind faith if you will, but I consider Ford products in every segment to be better than its competitors. I've driven my fair share of small cars, including the Holden Cruze, Hyundai Accent, Mazda 2, Toyota Corolla ... none of them even come close to the Fiesta or Focus for driving dynamics.

Originally Posted by strobe

What about the design jobs that are staying? Everyone seems to forget about them. Surely they keep Ford above import only brands, if that's your thing.

This.

Fair enough to be concerned about Australian jobs, but those people seem to conveniently forget that Ford still employs 1100 people in its design centre. The Ranger was engineered in Australia, as is the Everest. And that's just the beginning. Just because it's not built here doesn't mean that Australians had played no part in its development.

Originally Posted by borough

My next car purchase will not be out of spite, it will be based upon facts. I bought my Falcon because I always wanted one and it was the only difference to me between Ford and other brands. Remove the Falcon and the rest of the Ford lineup is pretty boring and no better than any other importer, be it Hyundai, Nissan, Kia, Mazda etc.... I've taken the less than stellar after sales service, and if the Falcon was still available when it was time to replace my FG I would have looked at it first.

I fail to see how any Hyundai, Nissan, Kia or Mazda is better than an equivalent Ford.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So people should rush out and buy Kia's out of spite because the Falcon is gone?

What would that show ford?

Customers want cheap FWD cars?
As ford fans we all want to see ford improve,

And after the Falcon & Territory are gone, the only Fords available will be:…

Originally Posted by Nikked

cheap FWD cars?

I have to wonder at what point all these self-righteous gits proclaiming themselves to be “the only true Ford Fans” will wake up and smell the ********?
If Ford decided to do a Chrysler, and pulled out of Australia altogether, would you still be “a Fan of Ford’s Current offerings” (ie nothing.) Or if Ford abandoned automobiles altogether to concentrate on Tractors? Where do you draw the line and say “enough’s enough”?
You CAN be a Beatles fan without liking Thomas the Tank Engine. Heck, most of my favourite musicians and authors ARE dead. It’s a ***** to think that there will never be another Tom Clancy or Dick Francis novel, but that doesn’t stop me loving the books they did write, and nor does it mean that I have to start loving Harry Pothead.

Once Ford stop making the Falcon & Territory, there won’t be much in their new car showroom that interests me, but I still have many decades of Australian Fords to love. I DON’T need to have wet dreams about an ecoboost Mondeo to be a Ford Fan. I will still admire the Mustang & F350 from afar, and IF the new Stang is NOT some castrated version for the tree-hugging masses, that admiration will continue.

[XBv8mmm!]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

And after the Falcon & Territory are gone, the only Fords available will be:…

I have to wonder at what point all these self-righteous gits proclaiming themselves to be “the only true Ford Fans” will wake up and smell the ********?
If Ford decided to do a Chrysler, and pulled out of Australia altogether, would you still be “a Fan of Ford’s Current offerings” (ie nothing.) Or if Ford abandoned automobiles altogether to concentrate on Tractors? Where do you draw the line and say “enough’s enough”?
You CAN be a Beatles fan without liking Thomas the Tank Engine. Heck, most of my favourite musicians and authors ARE dead. It’s a ***** to think that there will never be another Tom Clancy or Dick Francis novel, but that doesn’t stop me loving the books they did write, and nor does it mean that I have to start loving Harry Pothead.

Once Ford stop making the Falcon & Territory, there won’t be much in their new car showroom that interests me, but I still have many decades of Australian Fords to love. I DON’T need to have wet dreams about an ecoboost Mondeo to be a Ford Fan. I will still admire the Mustang & F350 from afar, and IF the new Stang is NOT some castrated version for the tree-hugging masses, that admiration will continue.

Dito, and then some.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

And after the Falcon & Territory are gone, the only Fords available will be:…

I have to wonder at what point all these self-righteous gits proclaiming themselves to be “the only true Ford Fans” will wake up and smell the ********?
If Ford decided to do a Chrysler, and pulled out of Australia altogether, would you still be “a Fan of Ford’s Current offerings” (ie nothing.) Or if Ford abandoned automobiles altogether to concentrate on Tractors? Where do you draw the line and say “enough’s enough”?
You CAN be a Beatles fan without liking Thomas the Tank Engine. Heck, most of my favourite musicians and authors ARE dead. It’s a ***** to think that there will never be another Tom Clancy or Dick Francis novel, but that doesn’t stop me loving the books they did write, and nor does it mean that I have to start loving Harry Pothead.

Once Ford stop making the Falcon & Territory, there won’t be much in their new car showroom that interests me, but I still have many decades of Australian Fords to love. I DON’T need to have wet dreams about an ecoboost Mondeo to be a Ford Fan. I will still admire the Mustang & F350 from afar, and IF the new Stang is NOT some castrated version for the tree-hugging masses, that admiration will continue.

I totally understand where you're coming from. The big question however, is if you or a family member/friend had a need that could be satisfied by one of Ford's offerings, would you not buy it/recommend against it purely out of spite? This is what some on here have alluded to. Doing that is just as bad as accepting dodgy products out of blind fandom.

You don't have to like the direction Ford have gone/will be going in, but it's what had to happen (overall)

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Test drove a number of non-falcon vehicles at Ford. What stood out is the Falcon and territory are head and shoulders above all the yank and euro developed Ford product in driving dynamics and comfort. Will easily hold a candle to BMW or Merc for a fraction of price while still being able to be maintained by a local corner shop. Unfortunate to see it go. Falcon was too good to be a Ford product, and too good for the Australian buying public to acknowledge.

Interestingly, I was up in Malaysia (you can simply request a test drive with NO pressure there) recently and test drove a bunch of new cars with my brother in law -

Passat
3 series BMW
Kuga
Focus

Plus near new Honda Accord and Honda City and a 5 year old 5 series BMW.

I love Falcon and have had many but all the above cars were better than the FG in fit, finish, plastics and overall refinement. Further to that, there was a noticeable difference between the Ford products and the BMW, the Passat sat slightly above the Fords.

I'd really like to agree with you, but I'm being objective with my view.

Oh, the BIL bought the Passat, which wasn't my choice.

[Bossxr8]

I'd rather have a car that was great to drive than dismiss it over trivial crap like fit and finish and refinement. Driving dynamics and soul beat that bland crap any day.

Audis have the best made interiors but most of them are pretty average things to drive bar the S and RS models. Especially the FWD's. Steering, ride and handling aren't exactly strong points in your run of the mill Audi. Those are areas where they are smashed by BMW and Mercedes.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd rather have a car that was great to drive than dismiss it over trivial crap like fit and finish and refinement. Driving dynamics and soul beat that bland crap any day.

Then hands down, the BMW wins.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I have a manual FG XR8 which does have a large V8 soul which I love and in a straight line, is a great drive but come corners and braking, it slips and the driveline is clunky (refinement). Haven't driven a Focus ST but would mind taking one for a spin as I reckon they'd be a great drive, I'd never buy one over say an FH XR8 or a Mustang though.

I'd also suggest the FG XT Falcon is a bland drive so no different to a base Focus/Mondeo

Please don't think I'm knocking the Falcon, I love them and they are pretty much all I've owned (bar 2 Mustangs and a MKIII Capri when I live in London), Ford Aus do a sterling job with limited $$'s and definitely better than some of the US Fords I've driven over the years.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Wretched

That may be your opinion and your decision as to why you follow a car maker.
For me it has nothing to do with where the car is made, more to do with the cars in their range, their history and heritage.

History & Heritage ????? I agree. Falcon was, is and will always be special.

Please remind me what significance Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Kuga, Ranger and EcoSport have with the above criteria !

Yes, they are nothing more than just 'another' car in the range without any of the 'emotion' of what you describe above.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So people should rush out and buy Kia's out of spite because the Falcon is gone?

What would that show ford?

Customers want cheap FWD cars?


As ford fans we all want to see ford improve, but there is a difference between that and utterly stupid remarks...

And in hindsight, what do you think Ford will offer post 2016 ???
That's correct, cheap front wheel drive cars.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by fte50

And in hindsight, what do you think Ford will offer post 2016 ???
That's correct, cheap front wheel drive cars.

Exactly...


So what's rushing out and buying a Kia going to prove?


There are people who will go out and buy a non-ford just because the falcon doesn't exist...even though the rest of Fords range still has plenty to offer...

My dad just bought a new Focus S, because the Falcon didn't offer want he wanted from a car...and he has already owned a XY, EA and an AU. He is just one of many of the modern car buyer that have turned away from the 'traditional' Australian car...something that's not entirely fords fault...

I'd imagine if the Falcon became a locally produced FWD car of similar size (i.e, a localised mondeo), people will still have the same single minded attitude of shunning it just on the fact of it not being a RWD car...

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by fte50

History & Heritage ????? I agree. Falcon was, is and will always be special.

Please remind me what significance Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Kuga, Ranger and EcoSport have with the above criteria !

Yes, they are nothing more than just 'another' car in the range without any of the 'emotion' of what you describe above.

Falcon in its basic form is much the same a yawn fest, nothing special just another car. Falcon is only special to a select few. How special was the XF and EA models? What did they bring and how did they fit your criteria? What is so special about a Falcon XT or G6?

Focus has offered two variations of ST and RS models all of which would offer this "emotion."
Fiesta offered 2 ST models, again the same.
Mondeo a XR5T model.

Kuga, Ranger and EcoSport are nothing more than people movers and don't pretend to be anything else (Territory).

Ford has a strong history and heritage, they have made some killer cars in the past and continue to do so now. Falcon like many a name plate in the past, it had its time and due to market changes it is now time to retire it.

[LeadFoot81]

fte50;4902741]History & Heritage ????? I agree. Falcon was, is and will always be special.

Please remind me what significance Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Kuga, Ranger and EcoSport have with the above criteria !

Yes, they are nothing more than just 'another' car in the range without any of the 'emotion' of what you describe above.

It takes time to build heritage. Out of the models you listed, Focus has been here the longest and has only recently started selling in decent numbers every month and developing a reputation.

As an aside, all those cars you've listed are great at doing what they were designed for. What they're not great at is being RWD, and/or a Falcon.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

If Ford decided to do a Chrysler, and pulled out of Australia altogether, would you still be “a Fan of Ford’s Current offerings” (ie nothing.) Or if Ford abandoned automobiles altogether to concentrate on Tractors? Where do you draw the line and say “enough’s enough”?

When Ford no longer produces a product that suits my needs.

But Ford has an extensive range available, and so long as Ford offers a product in the category that I'm looking at, then the Ford automatically takes precedence over any other competitor simply because it's a Ford, no questions asked, no explanations necessary. The fact that it's a Ford is enough.

To the guy that said he'd go out and buy a Kia Optima, how is it any better than a Ford Mondeo? For me, the fact that the Mondeo is a Ford is enough for me to buy it over a Kia Optima.

Originally Posted by fte50

History & Heritage ????? I agree. Falcon was, is and will always be special.

Please remind me what significance Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Kuga, Ranger and EcoSport have with the above criteria !

Ford has history and heritage that dates back to way before the Falcon. It's history in Australia alone dates back to 1925 - a whole 35 years before Falcon.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by fte50

History & Heritage ????? I agree. Falcon was, is and will always be special.

Please remind me what significance Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Kuga, Ranger and EcoSport have with the above criteria !

Yes, they are nothing more than just 'another' car in the range without any of the 'emotion' of what you describe above.

A MKII focus RS at full noise stirs plenty of emotion for me.

Falcons beyond 2002 mean nothing to me, there isn't anything about them that would make me buy one (apart from the turbo 6) still i don't lold the rest of the car.
You mention Kuga, Territory is much the same. nothing to stir anything really.

Go and do a bit of research on Team RS, there is plenty of history and heritage there which continues to this day with them providing a lot of in put into cars such as the ST range which has been around a while not to mention the actual RS brand aswell.

But there really is no point trying to reason with people like you, your entitled to your opinion just like everyone else.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Spammy

What exactly would somebody say in such a letter?

"I'm not a shareholder or director of your company but I want you to continue to build a low volume car on which you lose money. If you chose to come up with a better business plan i.e. stop building them I will be annoyed"

You could sign it "Grandpa Simpson" so they know what voice to read it in.

Yeah thats right, someone shows a bit of passion around here so put them down and ridicule them. How big of you.

FYI I was referring to Ford manufacturing here in general- not the unprofitable model. Market conditions are going to change ($AUD decrease) in the next few years, so it should be put back on the table.
If a government minister is going to try and persuade them to change their minds, then for those who feel strongly about Ford leaving Broady and Geelong destitute, now is an opportunity for their voices to be heard.
The One Ford event means Dearborn have all but Gone Further and wiped us off the map.
Yes it probably won't happen, but if theres a hope of a reversal , people shouldn't be criticised for wanting to pursue that. Remember when Geelong was going to close in 2010?

[Kieron]

Not sure it's that simple FalconXV.

The AU$ may well devalue (we don't actually know that for sure) but that can also happen to other manufacturing centers in the Ford world.

Plus, we are still competing with a higher wage bill than the likes of Thailand and are a small market. It may for instance be worthwhile knocking out BMW's in Germany for European consumption with it's comparatively high wage over Thailand purely because of the volume.



Ford USA haven't wiped us off the map neither, they are leaving the design center here and it continues to play a significant part in upcoming Ford models.

[Buntz]

Ford has spent years feeding small amounts of arsenic to it's Australian operations... and will not undo all their hard work because of the desire of this one industry minister.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Buntz

Ford has spent years feeding small amounts of arsenic to it's Australian operations... and will not undo all their hard work because of the desire of this one industry minister.

Yeah, how dare Ford US allow Australia to engineer a 4cyl and a new gas system the falcon, how dare they allow us to install a diesel into the Territory...How dare they allow us to attempt exports...

[dmat2391]

Buntz has nailed it on the head.
As Kieron has said, though, we still have design and engineering happening here. Just take a deep breath and think of the possible outcomes for this group when they can design for ford "global" and not just a single platform for a bygone era.
Don't get me wrong love my FG mkII T ......man if they can do that with a piddling budget of a tiny market just imagine what can and will happen. Aussie ingenuity for the world's masses in the same vein of Henry Ford's original model T.
Falcon is no more but Lord knows I can't wait to see what the future holds for fords not designed by asinine sepos.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yeah, how dare Ford US allow Australia to engineer a 4cyl and a new gas system the falcon, how dare they allow us to install a diesel into the Territory...How dare they allow us to attempt exports...

Seriously, I don’t even know where to begin that one... If you call 100 Territory’s exported 6 or so months before you decide to close a plant for good as "allow us to attempt exports", then I just can't do anything for you!!!