Holden 'upgrades' base Commodore V6....advantage Falcon!

[GK]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

And yet it's the Falcon that receives the new motor in two years :togo:

Well said!

Facts mean nothing, image is everything!

GK

[Bossxr8]

Any see the dribble written by Paul Gover in the cars guide yesterday, gushing about how environmentally friendly and fuel efficient the new engine is. What a tos ser. :

[manxman]

Frankly Scarlet, I couldn't give a damn.

I won't be buying either anytime soon, or ever, so I have no particular concern. Both cars are grossly overpowered rubbish, and totally unnecessarily so, IMO. It's only the leadfooted public that keep them making the trash. Who really NEEDS 3L+ for a family car????? Even worse if for one person. This planets resources can't afford the drain of making and running such monsters indefinitely. Someday, something will have to give. If we're not careful. it might be us! Terminally!

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Any see the dribble written by Paul Gover in the cars guide yesterday, gushing about how environmentally friendly and fuel efficient the new engine is. What a tos ser. :

He's a tool Gover, its has been mentioned many times before. The carsguide guys don't know jack about cars and just reproduce press material. Holden has says the VE now meets euro VI standards mostly to soften the blow that it is now slower. You can put whatever spin you want on it but less power, less torque, same weight = slower in 99.999% of the time, AND, it still doesn't match falcon fuel burn numbers (or others in the large car segment).

[manxman]

Now that I think about it, we might all be wrong, Perhaps Commode-ors are the better car, faster, quicker, handle better; Surely all those juvenile car thieves can't be THAT wrong, can they??? I mean, they know what they want, so they'd always take the best car for the job, surely? And thrills is the name of the game, so why not.......?.

[StAndArdAU]

what drugs is this guy ^^ on and where do i get some?

[ea90gl]

More jibberish in the Saturdays SA Cardguide lift out, a whole article devoted to the "greener, environmentally friendly quest" that holden is aiming for. Then right on the next page a pic of a 60th Anniversary Omega on top of a "big savings article". Holden deals in the first paragraph and not even a mention to any ford. Another article on beefed up Pontiac G8 and Comaro concept cars. Wonder how much GMH forks out to get all this published, and its the same stories and crap every carsguide lift out. If a commodore is witnessed having a small accident it wouldnt surprise me if a "VE safety prevents death of 5 family members" crap is published

[broken_suave]

Its pretty simple. All Holden need to do is show a Commodore driving down a country road, the surrounding grass/trees/fields 'greening up' as it drives past. The narrator says: "Holden Commodore, more fuel efficient than ever." And then end with the standard black screen with holden logo and 'Go Better' slogan.

Job done. They've said its more fuel efficient than ever. I mean, sure, it still uses more fuel than the Falcon, and it makes no where near the amount of power that the Falcon has. But they havent lied, its using less fuel than before. Typical Holden, The truth, but not the whole truth, and everything including some truth.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by StAndArdAU

what drugs is this guy ^^ on and where do i get some?

Think he's just looking for someone to take the bait.
If you ignore they tend to go away, eg commseric or however you spell it.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Any see the dribble written by Paul Gover in the cars guide yesterday, gushing about how environmentally friendly and fuel efficient the new engine is. What a tos ser. :

Yeah. What a load of rubbish that was. Where's the two-page article for the new Falcon?

Speaking of VEs, I heard one missing it's guts off a few days ago (unmarked police car). The alloytec isn't all that "special" like the articles seem to make it out to be.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Any see the dribble written by Paul Gover in the cars guide yesterday, gushing about how environmentally friendly and fuel efficient the new engine is. What a tos ser. :

And the bold heading had me in hysterics


The improvements can mean a saving of more than $1.50 a week!!!!!!!!!!

[PoweredByCNG]

Guys, I'd love to see if Ford could better Holden's 14.2L/100km out of their LPG engine. Holden's LPG offering is now significantly better than Ford's LPG offering.

Regards,
Dave

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Guys, I'd love to see if Ford could better Holden's 14.2L/100km out of their LPG engine. Holden's LPG offering is now significantly better than Ford's LPG offering.

Regards,
Dave

For interests sake, links showing the comparison please.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Guys, I'd love to see if Ford could better Holden's 14.2L/100km out of their LPG engine. Holden's LPG offering is now significantly better than Ford's LPG offering.

Regards,
Dave

You can't really compare Holden's SVI system to Ford's e-gas (mixer style). I've noticed quite a few LPG powered VE Commodores in the police fleet too.

I wouldn't think that the alloytec would be able to do the 'hard yards' like Ford's 6 cylinder either in terms of higher kms.

[Daymoe]

Its not really that Ford's marketing is crap (Well the marketing department does need to be shot), its that Ford has a really bad brand image here in Australia, was talking to one of my workmates who owns a BMW X5 and it has the ZF6 speed auto in it, I mentioned that Ford uses the same gearbox in the Falcon, and he said straight away "Does that mean its going to fall apart in the next 2000kms?".

Ford doesn't have a good reputation, they need to fix that with the FG and they aren't doing a good job, que marketing department.

[Bobman]

Did anyone else read the Cars Guide's readers questions?

People were replying to an idiot who was criticising the Falcon. Made for a good read as the replies were quite constructive and true.

[BeStRaFe]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Guys, I'd love to see if Ford could better Holden's 14.2L/100km out of their LPG engine. Holden's LPG offering is now significantly better than Ford's LPG offering.

Regards,
Dave

there is 2 problems with this statement.
1 - the falcon lpg option is $1100!
the holden ones is $3,900
the STATED fuel figures for the falcon is 16.2/100
and the holden at 16.0l/100
2 - the lpg system in the holden is SVI
and takes abotu 20 minutes to switch!!!


i took a holden berlina with the facory lpg option fitted for a test drive. the DP TOLD ME NOT TO BUY ONE AND JUST GET A PETROL AND GO AFTER MARKET.

due to the amount of complaints about the factory system.

edit - also... on my BA i never saw above 15L/100
and on my BF... im always in low 13's

i do about 30 min up the freeway each day and 60 minutes in sydney city traffic!

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by BeStRaFe

1 - the falcon lpg option is $1100!
the holden ones is $3,900

Wrong! The Falcon E-gas option costs $1400 and qualifies for a Federal Rebate of $1000 for NEW LPG vehicles.

The Commodore LPG option costs $2400 and qualifies for a Federal Rebate of $2000 for CONVERTED LPG vehicles.

For the majority of private motorists in Australia, this means that all you'll pay for either LPG option after the Federal Rebate is $400. I know which one I would choose!

the STATED fuel figures for the falcon is 16.2/100
and the holden at 16.0l/100

Wrong again!

The LPG Commodore with revised engine uses 10.6L/100km when run on petrol, or 14.2L/100km when running on LPG. When the LPG option was first released in 2006, LPG consumption was rather high at 16L/100km, but people I have been speaking to tell me that the real life consumption is closer to 15L/100km.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/3000967.aspx

http://www.redbook.com.au/new-cars/d...d=11D814DDF810

The latest Falcon E-gas actually has a claimed fuel consumption figure of 14.9L/100km according to Red Book.

http://www.redbook.com.au/new-cars/d...d=11D814DDF810

The urban consumption figure of 20.1L/100km is quite frankly rather worrying!

2 - the lpg system in the holden is SVI
and takes abotu 20 minutes to switch!!!

Have you ever owned a car with SVI? It takes just 2-3 min for the engine to warm up to the preset changeover temperature. Plus, it's a good habit to start the engine on petrol anyway.

i took a holden berlina with the facory lpg option fitted for a test drive. the DP TOLD ME NOT TO BUY ONE AND JUST GET A PETROL AND GO AFTER MARKET.

due to the amount of complaints about the factory system.

I'm yet to hear any of that. Show me some proof and I'll stand corrected.

Please do your research before posting.

Regards,
Dave

[BeStRaFe]

Ford's website states the current price at $1100.00 for the LPG Option!

the figures i have for the VE-LPG cars are the material i was given at Central Coast HOLDEN 2 WEEKS AGO!

and yes!
I drive a SVI Car DAILY when at work
a 2007 Model VE-Omega
with the factory LPG system and its BAD!

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by BeStRaFe

Ford's website states the current price at $1100.00 for the LPG Option!

Interesting. Looks like Ford has secretly dropped the price of the E-gas option by $300. But still, with a stated urban consumption figure of 20.1L/100km, I know I would be looking elsewhere.

the figures i have for the VE-LPG cars are the material i was given at Central Coast HOLDEN 2 WEEKS AGO!

They're probably trying to push their MY09 stock in readiness for the MY09.5 stock. NEVER trust car dealers.

and yes!
I drive a SVI Car DAILY when at work
a 2007 Model VE-Omega
with the factory LPG system and its BAD!

In what way is it BAD? Consumption? Power? Smothness?

Are you sure your work car isn't faulty?

Regards,
Dave

[BeStRaFe]

this is the second SVI VE-Omega they have had.

1. it shudders when switching between the fuels.
2. has an intermittent stalling problem when on LPG
3. the power loss on lpg is a majour problem its very, very bad.
4. it takes 15-20 minutes to switch...
5. consumption is in the high-25'-30l/100 in the city - my falcon is never that high... high 20's is the max i have even seen.



both cars have had this issue..

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Interesting. Looks like Ford has secretly dropped the price of the E-gas option by $300. But still, with a stated urban consumption figure of 20.1L/100km, I know I would be looking elsewhere.

You havent given us an urban figure for the commodore to compare this to, for all we know the commodore could use more.

[bd737]

Originally Posted by manxman

Frankly Scarlet, I couldn't give a damn.

I won't be buying either anytime soon, or ever, so I have no particular concern. Both cars are grossly overpowered rubbish, and totally unnecessarily so, IMO. It's only the leadfooted public that keep them making the trash. Who really NEEDS 3L+ for a family car????? Even worse if for one person. This planets resources can't afford the drain of making and running such monsters indefinitely. Someday, something will have to give. If we're not careful. it might be us! Terminally!

Why are you a member of these Ford Forums if that's your attitude? Take your Honda Elite and cram it - please.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by coupex

You havent given us an urban figure for the commodore to compare this to, for all we know the commodore could use more.

Well that's because Red Book don't specify an urban figure. Combined figures are as follows:

MY2008 FG Falcon XT E-gas: 14.9L/100km
MY09.5 Commodore Omega LPG: 14.2L/100km

Regards,
Dave

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by BeStRaFe

1. it shudders when switching between the fuels.
2. has an intermittent stalling problem when on LPG
3. the power loss on lpg is a majour problem its very, very bad.
4. it takes 15-20 minutes to switch...
5. consumption is in the high-25'-30l/100 in the city - my falcon is never that high... high 20's is the max i have even seen.

I'm sure your work's experiences aren't typical of what is normal. Time for a warranty service perhaps?

Word has it that Holden have done a lot with the latest revision gas engine to improve economy and smoothness.

Regards,
Dave

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Bobman

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ho...1030-5c0t.html

People are so stupid.

It would only be $2 a tank or something.

[BeStRaFe]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Well that's because Red Book don't specify an urban figure. Combined figures are as follows:

MY2008 FG Falcon XT E-gas: 14.9L/100km
MY09.5 Commodore Omega LPG: 14.2L/100km

Regards,
Dave

for the extra coin that the holden will cost + having to use petrol
i prefer a dedicated LPG car.

i find the work car can hold far less in the boot with the lpg tank

i have a sub in my e-gas and still can keep a stackload of stuff in the boot

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

People are so stupid.

Journos are so stupid!

In that article, it was stated that an average 20,000km per annum motorist who takes up the LPG option "stands to save $189.80 a year". Based on the fuel consumption figures and price differential between gas and petrol, that figure seems to be extremely (i.e. excessively) conservative.

Let me see...

Annual distance travelled: 20,000km
Fuel consumption (petrol): 10.6L/100km
Fuel consumption (LPG): 14.2L/100km
Cost of LPG (as stated in the article): 73c/L
Cost of petrol (as stated in the article): $1.46/L

Fuel use per annum (petrol): (20000 / 100) * 10.6 = 2120L
Fuel cost per annum (petrol): 2120 * 1.46 = $3095.20

Fuel use per annum (LPG)*: (20000 * 0.85 / 100) * 14.2 = 2414, (20000 * 0.15 / 100) * 10.6 = 318
Fuel cost per annum (LPG)*: (2414 * 0.73) + (318 * 1.46) = 1762.22 + 464.28 = $2226.50

FUEL SAVING PER ANNUM: 3095.2 - 2226.5 = $868.70

* Based on 85% LPG usage

Regards,
Dave

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bobman

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ho...1030-5c0t.html

From article

Holden is defending the drop in power and torque (pulling power) of its Commodore by saying "it won't affect real world driving".

Prob wont, it drives like a POS how can you make it worse?

[red_hotxr6]

Originally Posted by XR4568

So it loses power and torque, gains 0.2l/100km and retains the 4 speed slushbox. Have we a new case for the 'what were they thinking' wall?


http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2574DE00062E75

Holden has not abandoned its fuel economy push with the Commodore’s 3.6-litre global V6, however, announcing the immediate fitment of the “premium” version of its Alloytec V6 as standard across the Commodore range.

Announced deep within Holden’s AIMS press release, the move sees Omega and Berlina versions of the VE Commodore sedan and Sportwagon, as well as the base Holden Ute, lower their official ADR 81/02 average fuel consumption figure by between 0.2 and 0.4L/100km.

However, while the VE sedan’s official fuel consumption is reduced from 10.8 to 10.6L/100km (its average CO2 emissions similarly drop, from 256 to 252g/km), the entry-level Commodore still falls short of its key rivals in terms of fuel efficiency.

Ford’s entry-level FG Falcon XT returns 10.5L/100km with its standard five-speed automatic and 10.1L/100km with its optional six-speed ZF auto. Toyota’s Aurion V6 returns a class-leading 9.9L/100km at base level.

Meantime, the base Sportwagon models reduce their official fuel consumption figures from 11.1 to 10.7L/100km (CO2 emissions drop from 261 to 256g/km), while V6-powered Holden Utes drop a similar amount - from 11.3 to 10.9L/100km (CO2: 259 v 268g/km).

Crucially, the entry-level Holden V6 now scores the variable exhaust valve timing system of the “High Output” V6 that powers models from the Calais upwards, but it remains mated to GM’s aged four-speed automatic transmission in the Omega and Berlina (and base Ute), which also miss out on premium models’ dual exhaust system.

As such, the “recalibrated” base V6 does not share the 195kW/340Nm performance outputs of the V6 found in premium models, nor even the 180kW and 330Nm peaks of the models they replace.

In fact, with 175kW available at 6500rpm (500rpm higher than before) and 325Nm of torque on tap from 2400rpm (200rpm lower than currently), Holden’s new entry-level V6 offers 5kW and 5Nm less than it did previously.

Now on par with the Commodore’s LPG Alloytec V6, Holden’s revised base petrol V6 is now at a greater performance disadvantage when compared with the Falcon’s 190kW/383Nm 4.0-litre straight six and the Aurion’s 200kW/336Nm 3.5-litre V6, despite remaining less fuel-efficient.

WHO CARES...?????