Was the AU ahead of it's time?

[TheInterceptor]

IMO, yup, still looks pretty fresh after all these years and the non trashed ones still run beautifully.

Old pic, not an AUI but close enough with its Holden equivalent.



Best Falcon made to date. Comfy as heck, rugged and reliable as all heck, has enough electrics and tech to make a superb car but not enough electrics and tech to cause issues down the track, great to work on, beauuuutiful to drive with excellent throttle response (no electronic throttle crap), brake feel and superbly weighted steering, can get 8L to the hundred on the open road (though i dont think mine can anymore as ive killed the aero )...Mine has/had one tiny rattle in the door and thats it! Build quality is fantastic, dont know why people have issues there.
The "egg" is not in the slightest ugly to me! And dont start on saftey as i do not care not one bit that an FG is safer!

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Magna of the same vintage is a better car...No rust issues either.

The Magna of that era is a great car but I don't think it's better than the AU. I'd say they were about on par. I am well aware of the pros and cons of the Magna.

Where the Magna shines through is in the build quality stakes. Everything fits perfectly, no uneven gaps or mismatched plastic and vinyl trims. It all gives the impression of quality and feels nice to touch. Falcons have always had crap interior plastic with mold markings and droopy headliners, etc.

But even though the Magna is physically almost the same size as the AU, it has a smaller, more cramped interior.
No rear air vents. Rear legroom for a car of the size is pretty poor. Great driving position though.

The Magna had a clever adaptive shift auto which is great, but the shifts aren't as smooth as the BTR in the AU. They are even in the auto stakes.

The 3.5 V6 in the Magna doesn't have the torque of the I6 (nor the longevity) but they go alright. More power than the average person would use and they are no slouch. Fuel economy would be about on par with an AU, or maybe slightly better.

The Magna has much easier, safer handing - you can throw them into corners without any worries, which is not something you can do in a live axle AU. But the Magna has a bigger turning circle and is harder to park. The Magna has great seats that 'hug' you and are much better than in the AU, but the AU has a smoother and quieter ride.

As for reliability, the Magna can't be faulted. Over six years of ownership and 100,000 kays, the only problems that were encountered were the central locking remote stopped working and it needed a new muffler. Can't say that about any Falcon I've owned. It's all well and good to have an I6 that lasts a million kilometres, but that's no good if the car has rusted to the ground before then.

[FG_Frodza]

Wouldn't go near an AU, exterior is ugly (apart from top spec models), interior is ugly, slower than BA.. IMO newer is better when it comes to Falcon, sorry to everyone defending the AU but it's a bit like religion - you can beleive what you want but you have no basis to try and argue that you're right.

[BadMax]

Magna's:
TE magna had .28 Cd
Superior engine in the 3.5lt in regards to nvh.
What it lacked in torque it made up in response.
5 Speed auto variants with adaptive shift and tip tronic style shifting are smoother.
Seating position is far more comfortable, could have been better with reach adjustment.
Proper useable large flat floor boot.
Fit and finish is above the AU.
Frameless doors look great.
Ralliart had 180kw motor in 2003. NA V6.

Of Course most of that is just my opinion, now for some facts:

First ever Australian built car to have 4wd.
First Aussie car with 4 channel ABS and EBD.
First Aussie car with traction control.
TJ Sports & VRX is faster than the same year XR6, XR8. Commodore S Supercharged V6 & the HSV XU6.

[dieseltrain79]

1991 Toyota Soarer CD - 0.31 with bootlid spoiler , 0.32 without .

Pretty good for over 20 years ago .

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Peuty

Yeah AU's are ugly.

image

mine is ugly too

[OffRoadFalcon]

I love the AU, and there isnt a single car that is worth less than $60,000 that I'd want instead of our AUII Futura wagon. It honestly shames the BAII in terms of looks and the way it drives IMHO and everyone in my family. Always ask unknowlegdable people which they reckon is newer too, AUII every time...

Fuel economy is fantastic where I live.

[Vormund]

I think the AU was overall a good design, but it had a few small styling elements that could have been improved; but I understand the majority of these elements were done to make the car look smaller.

Front headlights are probably a bit too tall: Slimmer ones I feel would look better but it would make the car look wider.

Rear bootlid could've have been raised a bit higher, and also filled out instead of an indent at the rear. BA fixed this.

The top corners of the windshield and rear window curving down; again this was made to make the car look smaller, and again BA fixed this.

I wasn't a fan of the interior though, the elements of roundness in it reminded me of the Toyota Echo of the time.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Magna's:
TE magna had .28 Cd
Superior engine in the 3.5lt in regards to nvh.
What it lacked in torque it made up in response.
5 Speed auto variants with adaptive shift and tip tronic style shifting are smoother.
Seating position is far more comfortable, could have been better with reach adjustment.
Proper useable large flat floor boot.
Fit and finish is above the AU.
Frameless doors look great.
Ralliart had 180kw motor in 2003. NA V6.

Of Course most of that is just my opinion, now for some facts:

First ever Australian built car to have 4wd.
First Aussie car with 4 channel ABS and EBD.
First Aussie car with traction control.
TJ Sports & VRX is faster than the same year XR6, XR8. Commodore S Supercharged V6 & the HSV XU6.

Really?

What about all the Jeep wagons my old man built in Brisbane in the 1960s
Followed by the 4WD Falcons built in the same factory in the 1970s

TH Magna was the first with traction control in December 1998, AU Falcon was released in September 1998.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by GlenW

The AU was so far ahead of its time even Mercedes Benz copied it. Years later.

image

Lol. I highly doubt that the Mercedes-Benz designers would have even known what an AU Falcon was.

[FGII-XR6]

that's cheating Flappist you're using facts instead of uninformed rhetoric

Originally Posted by flappist

Really?

What about all the Jeep wagons my old man built in Brisbane in the 1960s
Followed by the 4WD Falcons built in the same factory in the 1970s

TH Magna was the first with traction control in December 1998, AU Falcon was released in September 1998.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by stevz

Lol. I highly doubt that the Mercedes-Benz designers would have even known what an AU Falcon was.

I also highly doubt those designers would have known what a HK Monaro was.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by 4.0i OHC

I also highly doubt those designers would have known what a HK Monaro was.
image

And what is your point? I didn't see anyone state that Mercedes copied the HK Monaro.

[4.0i OHC]

As for the AU, it was truly ahead of its time. In many respects it's a much better car than even the current Falcon (turbo six motors notwithstanding). In my view, the AU struck a perfect blend between modern (front and rear suspension, VCT sixes, fuel economy, steering, seats/interior ergonomics, aerodynamics) and traditional (engine layout, can't-kill-'em reliability, cable throttle, proper vinyl dashboard, true luxury interiors) that hasn't really been achieved quite as nicely in later Falcons.

I even love the styling. Fair enough, it's no XB (let's face it, what modern car is?), and the square-in-circle dash design and square XR front grill on the series 2/3 models can be slightly jarring, but it's full of character which I just can't help but adore.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by stevz

And what is your point? I didn't see anyone state that Mercedes copied the HK Monaro.

Mercedes have form when it comes to copying Australian designs, so maybe the designers did in fact have some idea that the AU exists.

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

The Magna has much easier, safer handing - you can throw them into corners without any worries, which is not something you can do in a live axle AU. But the Magna has a bigger turning circle and is harder to park.

What???????????? 'Throwing' a front-wheel drive into a corner, as in REALLY throwing it results in the most horrific 'ploughing' understeer, which turns to lethally unsafe in wet conditions.
An AU on the otherhand can be guided into manageable and fun oversteer any day of the week, as in all trad aussie 'live' rear ended sedans/wagons.
This applies doubly to dirt and mud. (have had TE and AU company cars).

Originally Posted by stevz

Lol. I highly doubt that the Mercedes-Benz designers would have even known what an AU Falcon was.

I'd have agreed until seeing the amount of filthy-rich types that jet into town for the Bathurst 1000. It's become of international interest, and this has built through the V8 supercar era. Given the AU's were still gridding in 03/04 and continued for a few more years in the development series, it's really no surprise. Don't forget there may have been some Ford Germany input to the original AU concept anyway - and people change jobs (except in Japan )

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by flappist

Really?

What about all the Jeep wagons my old man built in Brisbane in the 1960s
Followed by the 4WD Falcons built in the same factory in the 1970s

TH Magna was the first with traction control in December 1998, AU Falcon was released in September 1998.

Were the Jeeps 'assembled' or built from locally made pressing etc?
Falcon 4wd, weren't these Falcon bodies planted onto full chassis of another vehicle and built as one off's? Were they mass produced and available for purchase through dealers? I don't know much about them.

Not going to dispute you on the TC, can't find any significant info otherwise.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Bonn

What???????????? 'Throwing' a front-wheel drive into a corner, as in REALLY throwing it results in the most horrific 'ploughing' understeer, which turns to lethally unsafe in wet conditions.
An AU on the otherhand can be guided into manageable and fun oversteer any day of the week, as in all trad aussie 'live' rear ended sedans/wagons.
This applies doubly to dirt and mud. (have had TE and AU company

Understeer is safer in the wet as lifting off ( first thing most people tend to do) corrects it. Not many can control live axle AU in the wet especially with engine that produces lots of torque down low.
In practise I see most AUs tippy toeing in the wet...

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Understeer is safer in the wet as lifting off ( first thing most people tend to do) corrects it. Not many can control live axle AU in the wet especially with engine that produces lots of torque down low.
In practise I see most AUs tippy toeing in the wet...

Exactly. The average person does not find oversteer 'safe' or 'manageable', it scares the crap out of them.

[Peuty]

Understeer scares the crap out of me more.

[BadMax]

Understeer in a fwd as far safer in the average punters hands than oversteer in a rwd.

Fwd understeer can be corrected by lifting off the throttle. In lift off situations in a fwd, you can induce oversteer then bury the accelerator and let the front wheels pull you out of the corner.

Rwd oversteer in pleb hands will end in tears. Tank slappers are pretty common, especialy on poor handling, floaty large cars.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by stevz

Lol. I highly doubt that the Mercedes-Benz designers would have even known what an AU Falcon was.

Google Peter Arcadipane, Aussie legend designer worked at Mercedes at that time....

cheers, Maka

[Maka]

Oversteer can also be corrected by lifting off the throttle, snap oversteer in a hot hatch imo is more dangerous to control than in the equivelent rwd- something to do with wheelbase.

cheers, Maka

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Magna's:
TE magna had .28 Cd
Superior engine in the 3.5lt in regards to nvh.
What it lacked in torque it made up in response.
5 Speed auto variants with adaptive shift and tip tronic style shifting are smoother.
Seating position is far more comfortable, could have been better with reach adjustment.
Proper useable large flat floor boot.
Fit and finish is above the AU.
Frameless doors look great.
Ralliart had 180kw motor in 2003. NA V6.

Of Course most of that is just my opinion, now for some facts:

First ever Australian built car to have 4wd.
First Aussie car with 4 channel ABS and EBD.
First Aussie car with traction control.
TJ Sports & VRX is faster than the same year XR6, XR8. Commodore S Supercharged V6 & the HSV XU6.

lets compare apples with apples the magna base engine was a 3.5 L 6 @ 155 kW compared to the AU base engine 4.0 I6 @ 157 Kw
if you want to use the 180 Kw for comparison that is the top option and compares to the AU top option of 220 Kw
the other thing with your 180 Kw Ralliart comparison is that it was after the AU so lets compare it to the base engine at the time, the BA I6 @ 182Kw and the top end 6 was a 240 KW turbo 6 ( non enhanced)

but lets be fair, Ralliart were like Tickford and FPV , a performance enhanced version so lets compare these to the ralliart
AU had a 5.6L stroker 250 Kw monster but this was before 2003 so lets be fair and compare cars built at the same time the FPV GT produced 290 Kw ( I'll leave the 270 Kw F6 out of this as it didn't arrive till 2004)

now as far as seating is concerned I have long legs and find it hard to find a car I can fit in comfortably but the AU is the most comfortable car I have owned

in relation to response how did it compare to the true comparison engines above?

Superior engine? show me a magna engine with 800 000 or more Ks and still going strong and I might take this statement seriously ( this is quite common in the AU 6)
Proper usable boot? the AU had a large flat floor boot that was quite usable ( only a very slight bulge where the spare sits)

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Maka

Google Peter Arcadipane, Aussie legend designer worked at Mercedes at that time....

cheers, Maka

CLS and AU share their design cues , I don't like either of them . CLS is not a very attractive car and AU is cheaper version of it.
As always it all depends on individual taste.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Were the Jeeps 'assembled' or built from locally made pressing etc?
Falcon 4wd, weren't these Falcon bodies planted onto full chassis of another vehicle and built as one off's? Were they mass produced and available for purchase through dealers? I don't know much about them.

Not going to dispute you on the TC, can't find any significant info otherwise.

You mean the Jeep that designed in Australia to be RHD, fitted with a Falcon I6 acquired from Ford and had almost all the components built inhouse or from various parts makers in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne and then exported to RHD countries all over the world?

The Falcons were genuine Ford and there were 432 XY utes made, I am not sure about other models.

Now I have a fair bit of info on this as my father ran the factory in Salisbury and the team that built the 4WD Falcons as well as the Ford I6 engined design. (N.B. He left before the first Falcons were delivered.)

But this thread is about AU Falcons not debunking Magna fanboi dogma so lets get back on to topic.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by FG_Frodza

IMO newer is better when it comes to Falcon, sorry to everyone defending the AU but it's a bit like religion - you can beleive what you want but you have no basis to try and argue that you're right.

Completely idiotic statement made and you should be warned for bringing religion into it as per T&C.

See, I can play too.

You say you would never go near an AU, anything you typed after that is invalid because you have no facts or experience to back it up.

I went from an AUII Ute to a BAII XR6. I was sorely disappointed with the purchase.

- Steering was woefully heavy in the BA
- Definitely did not feel any faster than the AU it replaced although time slips proved otherwise
- Used more fuel
- Broke down twice on me because of the **** fly-by-wire throttle.

If I had my time again which for me is next year I will be going back to an AU.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by FG_Frodza

Wouldn't go near an AU, exterior is ugly (apart from top spec models), interior is ugly, slower than BA.. IMO newer is better when it comes to Falcon, sorry to everyone defending the AU but it's a bit like religion - you can beleive what you want but you have no basis to try and argue that you're right.

Spoken like someone with truly no idea.

You have nothing to base your facts on apart from what others have typed. Only thing that is valid in your post is the looks as looks are always subjective.

[mcnews]

Wasn't the AU such a flop that it nearly killed Falcon altogether? Asking the question...
I know I never considered a Falcon until the BA Turbo came out and if it never came would probably never have bought a new Falcon. But have now bought BA, BF, FG1 and FG2.

[Windsor220]

The Magnas of the era were ok but I would rather drive an AU these days than one of them. Would be a lot more reliable.