Officially upset at Ford Australia - but we're now friends again

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

If you really want it bad enough than buy a new petrol titanium rwd and drop in a new xr6 turbo motor. would not be that dear and with all new parts would remain as reliable as any new car. Ford will still honour warranty on everthing else but the drive train which is pretty solid anyway. The rwd and FG Motor will ensure better than SY 4x4 Turbo fuel economy any you will have a truely unique car. Just make it happen.

I was thinking of doing something like this. But to have such power in an SUV all with only RWD? Thought it would be silly.

[Thunder]

I understand Ford Australia’s need for a return on investment (ROI) and the saleability of a Territory Sports model. I also understand that developing models with already developed and available parts & suppliers makes it easier.

Here is a thought; it’s basically sculptured on the current FPV assembly procedure (to what I know) but begins with a Territory TS.

TS with the following items removed (and costs adjusted/saved);
Engine
Suspension, bushes, swaybars etc
Wheels and tyres
Brakes
Exhaust
Front bumper
Badges (Ford & Territory)

Then replace them with:
Miami 335 engine or F6 310 engine from FPV
Suspension, bushes, swaybars etc from FPV and previous Territory Turbo
Wheels and tyres
Brakes from FPV
Exhaust from FPV
Front bumper only new, to be styled like the GT. Side skirts and rear apron can be added to existing body.
Badges (FPV & GX8 or GX6 lol)
Minor embroidered seat inserts........start button?

Build only a limited amount of 100 vehicles, paint them ALL in one colour, anything BUT BROWN!!!!, allow half-a-million dollars to develop it =$5000 per vehicle in addition to the donor car, and then the extra FPV cost = $72,500. If we go AWD then $78,500.

[mcnews]

I still think the FG XR6T motor would be the go for all round ability, economy and value. Should be easily doable for 5k over normal 4.0 price with plenty of profit in that 5k.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I still think the FG XR6T motor would be the go for all round ability, economy and value. Should be easily doable for 5k over normal 4.0 price with plenty of profit in that 5k.

I agree... Base it on the TS spec (but with sports trim).

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Front bumper only new, to be styled like the GT.


Build only a limited amount of 100 vehicles, paint them ALL in one colour, anything BUT BROWN!!!!, allow half-a-million dollars to develop it =$5000 per vehicle in addition to the donor car, and then the extra FPV cost = $72,500. If we go AWD then $78,500.

a new front bumper would have to go through crash testing wouldn't it

what happens if they only sold 10 of these 100 vehicles . . . . who wears the cost - the aff members who keep complaining about ford not building a car to suit them or ford australia (in which case another nail into the coffin of aus built fords)

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

a new front bumper would have to go through crash testing wouldn't it

what happens if they only sold 10 of these 100 vehicles . . . . who wears the cost - the aff members who keep complaining about ford not building a car to suit them or ford australia (in which case another nail into the coffin of aus built fords)

I did allow half a million in development cost. Anyhow, if this is the only issue, how about not touching the body, and make a more XR version than a FPV GT version?

You dont think 100 could sell? How about ford ask their dealers if they could sell it? I think the dealers would be itching for it.

[prydey]

i don't know why people still expect ford to have a range of driveline options for each model when no other manufacturer does it anymore. if you want a v8 model, you have to buy the model they offer with a v8 in it. if you want a diesel, you have to buy their diesel model etc etc.

also, the market for performance vehicles is very small. very very small. the market for performance suv vehicles is even smaller.

an enthusiast forum isn't a very accurate cross section of the true market place.

if you can't find a car that suits your needs/wants in australia, then you will never be satisfied. we have the most diverse range of vehicles in the world. you can't expect one manufacturer to be all things to all people.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by prydey

i don't know why people still expect ford to have a range of driveline options for each model when no other manufacturer does it anymore. if you want a v8 model, you have to buy the model they offer with a v8 in it. if you want a diesel, you have to buy their diesel model etc etc............

I agree and understand. My complaint and suggesions were more a wish list, most of you got that......with a hint of hope it may happen.

However, in my opening post, i said i would settle for a standard Territory, but the colour choice was my biggest gripe.

Territory is a bigger seller than Falcon they say, whats with the narrow and boring choices then?

[FordACE]

I'd like to get a diesel territory..I don't need performance. Thats what I have the falcon for. However, every time I mention territory to the Mrs she says they are "auto poo".

Would it have been difficult to have a manual. I think nearly every other SUV has option for manual.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Thunder

I did allow half a million in development cost. Anyhow, if this is the only issue, how about not touching the body, and make a more XR version than a FPV GT version?

You dont think 100 could sell? How about ford ask their dealers if they could sell it? I think the dealers would be itching for it.

How many F6Xs or XR6T Territorys sold. The market isn't there to build a car for the few people that want a fast SUV.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FordACE

I'd like to get a diesel territory..I don't need performance. Thats what I have the falcon for. However, every time I mention territory to the Mrs she says they are "auto poo".

Would it have been difficult to have a manual. I think nearly every other SUV has option for manual.

Kia Sorrento, comes in diesel and manual, its also got that awesome 2.2L diesel 4 cyl engine.

[BF-2K7]

........ every considered one of these? and its a green oval

http://www.landrover.com/au/en/lr/ra...-rover-evoque/

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Kia Sorrento, comes in diesel and manual, its also got that awesome 2.2L diesel 4 cyl engine.

I have had a lot of people tell me i should look at the Kia Sportage also. Apparently quality wise, both them and Hyundai are making good cars now.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by BF-2K7

........ every considered one of these? and its a green oval

http://www.landrover.com/au/en/lr/ra...-rover-evoque/

Eyed one out when it was released, but unfortunatly no dealership in my city anymore, which means long distance for any warranty issues............being a Landrover lol!

[greenfoam]

Originally Posted by Thunder

I have had a lot of people tell me i should look at the Kia Sportage also. Apparently quality wise, both them and Hyundai are making good cars now.

I wasn't joking when I mentioned the Kia in red earlier on my father has the Sorento and you really can't fault it for what it is. Just as much power and grunt as the Territory with better fuel economy and better off road, actually I believe it's slightly faster than the Terry.

You would definitely be doing yourself an injustice if you didn't at least test drive both the Kia and Hyundai options. Just to see what they are about.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I wasn't joking .................You would definitely be doing yourself an injustice if you didn't at least test drive both the Kia and Hyundai options. Just to see what they are about.

Might just do that.

I see they have heated seats too, bonus lol!

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

How many F6Xs or XR6T Territorys sold. The market isn't there to build a car for the few people that want a fast SUV.

It is not about making it fast, it is just about giving it more torque thus an easier drive. And the old spec engine in the Territory Turbo drank like a fish, the improvements in FG spec for the turbo donk are huge in both performance and more importantly economy. (have owned BA XR6T, BF F6, FG F6 and experienced the huge improvement that FG brought to the table)

The 4.0 in the Territory does have to be worked quite hard at times, and revved hard, it would be great with the effortless low and mid-range shove of the FG spec turbo motor, and get perhaps 20% better economy than its predecessors, perhaps even more.

Personally I think a current spec XR6T engine in Territory would be an absolute winner. And would almost certainly be our next new car purchase, as in every other way bar engine performance, our Territory has far exceeded expectations in so many ways, the biggest surprise really is just how great it drives, in a lot of situations it is more comfortable and nicer than Falcon, and drives like a car not an SUV, in that regards it stands far above the competition. The car is brilliant, but in my opinion, and it appears I am not on my pat malone, it deserves a better engine option. As the bigger seller than Falcon and perhaps with more room for future growth than Falcon, I think the model does deserve some more effort put in.

[mik]

Territory GT 335 titanium ???

[mcnews]

Too hard basket I think, XR6T donk easily doable to remain affordable. Probably be better too.

[mik]

yes probably is, it would have made a good badge though , TT 335

[jpd80]

In its last year available the I-6 Turbo version of the Territory sold a mere 169 units,
Ford actually did some development work on the SZ I-6T but decided not to proceed
due fear of more poor sales and to the overwhelming desire for a diesel by actual buyers.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In its last year available the I-6 Turbo version of the Territory sold a mere 169 units,
Ford actually did some development work on the SZ I-6T but decided not to proceed
due fear of more poor sales and to the overwhelming desire for a diesel by actual buyers.

please no logic or facts - this is a ford bashing forum

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

please no logic or facts - this is a ford bashing forum

Please excuse my moment of clarity, I now have rum and cola in hand...

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In its last year available the I-6 Turbo version of the Territory sold a mere 169 units,
Ford actually did some development work on the SZ I-6T but decided not to proceed
due fear of more poor sales and to the overwhelming desire for a diesel by actual buyers.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing, thus it's impossible to prove if sales would have been better if they did not detune the best out of the turbo.

From my memory the 1st series territory sold well, the 2nd series (facelift model) did not do as well, with many people walking away across the board not just on the Turbo model.

Yes, the market moved to diesel, and when Ford finaly released a diesil in a 2.7 litre V6, the rest of the market matched the Territory's power in 2.0 to 2.2 litre four cylinders!

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

please no logic or facts - this is a ford bashing forum

I have never bashed Fords, my history of posts will confirm. This thread is simply about understanding why the better selling model gets less options.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Thunder

I have never bashed Fords, my history of posts will confirm. This thread is simply about understanding why the better selling model gets less options.

i didn't accuse you of it, but i obviously did accuse ford fans in general
i think you were given the answer very early on in this thread and the same answer has been given when discussing the xr8, the fairlane, the station wagon and everything else the mob complains about


if they will sell, then there is a good chance ford will build it - me personally i want a gt 355 with an xb coupe body shell. they are crazy not to build it, imagine how many they would sell

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i didn't accuse you of it, but i obviously did accuse ford fans in general
i think you were given the answer very early on in this thread and the same answer has been given when discussing the xr8, the fairlane, the station wagon and everything else the mob complains about...........

Understood, agreed and accepted.

I guess i am just yet to comprehend the theory behind business practicess accross different manufacturers.

Just for arguments sake:

Ford pulled the pin on the wagon, business decision that made sence, fair enough. But then Holden goes crazy with sales on their Sportswagon.

Ford pulled the pin on the LWB, business decision that made sence, fair enough.
But then Holden continues, and even sells a HSV version of its LWB.

Holden release a 2 door version of the commodore, we all laughed at them cause it made NO business sence and was way out of left field.........and how well did they do? Pretty well, then they did the smart thing and retired it on a high.

The difference i see is Ford listens to low sales, but Holden listens to customers.

If all the rubbish in the media turns out to be true (i hope not) and the Falcon and Territory die, will we say in hindsight that customers did not want to buy Australian vehicles OR that Ford did not build what customers wanted? Just a thought.

[jpd80]

There is good evidence to say that former Commodore wagon buyers begrudgingly bought VE sedans
until the sportwagon released at which point sales bled away from the VE sedan to Sports wagon.
Combined sales increased but not as much as you'd imagine. Without V8/SS sales Commodore would be cactus
Conversely, Ford relies on Territory especially the diesel to get through, a model that most would agree is more
"drought proof' than a thirsty petrol V8 option..

[Gaz]

I understand it costs money to engineer a different motor for a car, but how much could it actually cost to just have the xr6t motor in the territory? or even offer a manual?

It seems holden/hsv can engineer these niche models very fast and without argument about cost. (LPG HSV etc dismal flop? never seen one, but wasn't bagged?).

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Thunder

The difference i see is Ford listens to low sales, but Holden listens to customers.

If all the rubbish in the media turns out to be true (i hope not) and the Falcon and Territory die, will we say in hindsight that customers did not want to buy Australian vehicles OR that Ford did not build what customers wanted? Just a thought.

Ask yourself why, against the tide of bad press is Ford persisting with Falcon and Territory.
The answer is that inspite of low sales, the revenue and more importantly, return on investment
is still good enough to justify local production, provided the correct model mix is maintained.
Vehicles like a wagon or Fairlane absolutely chop into development budgets and give very little return
although grfting a Mondeo rear hatch and side panels onto a Falcon shouldn't be totally ruled out..