Ford CEO - Falcon will stay! FWD or RWD?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by merlin

RWD has a clear benefit for performance cars - not just faster times (AWD will be faster) but in terms of driving enjoyment. I have owned a couple of FWD performance cars and they were OK but they would have been SO much better in RWD configuration. FWD is a cost cutting measure pure and simple.

Anyone ever driven an Aurion? I think my arms got the biggest workout they have ever had - torque steer is incredible, in the wet it is sheer lunacy. This is with 200kw, the absolute limit I reckon for FWD.

I remember reading an engineering article once that said 180 - 200kw's was the maximum amount of power you could safely and effectively put through a FWD system in a medium to largish sized production vehicle, im not sure if that theory still applies today, but i think its pretty close to the mark.

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I remember reading an engineering article once that said 180 - 200kw's was the maximum amount of power you could safely and effectively put through a FWD system in a medium to largish sized production vehicle, im not sure if that theory still applies today, but i think its pretty close to the mark.

From the 1980's? Audi were quoting that figure around the time of the 100CD.
You might be able to bump that power level up a bit with modern tyres, technology, etc.

Re: FWD doesn’t handle, can’t corner. My stock DC2R Honda will keep a stock XR6T very honest in corners and under braking.

Re: BMW doesn’t do FWD. The 1 series space utilisation is a bit compromised by RWD. Their cash cow is the Mini (small prestige) and they have gone in to partnerships with Peugeot and Daimler/Chrysler for its transverse FWD drivetrains.

And now that I’m looking for a tow car the Falcons and Commodores are on the short list, large FWD’s aren’t (damn those Mitsu 380’s are cheap). I might wind up buying a Falcon but it is only for a very narrow application – comfy large tow car. If I wanted to go fast and have fun I’d want something smaller and lighter.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Re: FWD doesn’t handle, can’t corner. My stock DC2R Honda will keep a stock XR6T very honest in corners and under braking.

Because it's a lighter and more nimble car. It won't keep up to an XR6T on a straight because you'd be a lunatic to run the amount of power it would need to do so through the front wheels.

FWD hatches and smaller sedans handle quite well, change an XR6T from RWD to FWD and I think you'll get to the crux of 'FWD doesn't handle, can't corner' of those being specific to the Falcon platform.

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Because it's a lighter and more nimble car. It won't keep up to an XR6T on a straight because you'd be a lunatic to run the amount of power it would need to do so through the front wheels.

FWD hatches and smaller sedans handle quite well, change an XR6T from RWD to FWD and I think you'll get to the crux of 'FWD can't handle, can't corner' of those being specific to the Falcon platform.

Yup, I agree with that. It's also 102kw at the wheels and only 1800cc. I'm just trying to disprove the "ALL FWD don't handle" zealots.

And as I said for a large tow car I'll be heading for RWD. But this is a once in a long time situation for me. I’ll probably keep the car for a long time, look after it and won’t be upgrading in 3-4 years like some people. How many people have this set of circumstances? If I wasn’t in this situation a Falcon wouldn’t get a look in as my next car.

[ubute]

Yeah anything over 200kw on FWD is going to get you in the , and is pretty much the limit. However I believe the new Focus RS (not destined for Oz) is aiming at 220kw with FWD not AWD

[4Vman]

Ive driven a TRD Aurion, a car that by design is meant to be a large performance vehicle.... ANYONE who claims they've removed torque steer or the ill effects of FWD is kidding themselves.... This car still feels like its a front wheel drive and while it feels more refined it still exhibits all the nasties of FWD...

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive driven a TRD Aurion, a car that by design is meant to be a large performance vehicle.... ANYONE who claims they've removed torque steer or the ill effects of FWD is kidding themselves.... This car still feels like its a front wheel drive and while it feels more refined it still exhibits all the nasties of FWD...

However less than 1% of all TRD Aurions will ever find themselves on the race track or driven in a matter where you would loathe the FWD setup. Its simply an attemp buy Toyota to stem a small but steady stream of buyers away from the premium Ford/Holden products which really are a class above a Camry with a leather wrap steering wheel.

Only 20% of the market is private and Ford is going to bleed fleet sales very soon if they don't drastically change Falcon driveline (mostly fuel ecconomy). So even if they lost every single private sale from the switch they still stand to make money. If people really care so much about RWD Falcon why don't they put their money where their mouth is and buy FG. :

[tranquilized]

Heres something that no one has mentioned yet - styling.
The drivetrain determines many hard points in a cars design. Front wheel drive dictates the engine be placed over the front wheels which brings with certain compromises, such as a larger front overhang.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but what I find essential for a car to look good is a long bonnet, short front overhang, and some space between the front door and front wheelarch. Look at most BMW's, the VE, and of course, older Falcons. Have a look at the profile of a Camry, theres only about an inch between the front door & arch, and I dont know about anyone else here, but I think it looks.... ordinary, to say the least.
As always there are exceptions to this rule, such as certain cab-forward designed, mid engined Italian exotica...

[Ghiadude]

I have an idea... why not make a RWD east west engined large car??? who says the engine has to be at the front. The BEST handling cars inthe world are mid/rear engined. Lets face it if we are going to talk about losing our precious handling then why not??? rear engined FTW!

[Scott]

^^ I'll take one... mid-mount for me though ;)

[Gobes32]

I personally don't think it will be a fwd falcon rather than they are doing a business case to manufacture Mondeo in Aus. Remember that only last year over 30 mill was spent on new presses in Geelong. Ford need to make a return on those and if it means local manufacture of some of ford's smaller cars then that is only a good thing. Maybe in 5 years there will be Focus, Mondeo ( small falcon ) and Territory being manufactured and hopefully exported in Australia.