(2011) Ford AU Posts Bigggest Annual Loss

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

So where are all the tools who keep stating that even though Ford builds less cars than Holden, they make a bigger profit per car?

Forgetting the tool crap lets look at this with apples vs apples.

Holden: $4.3billion revenue with profit $89.7million (including gov. grant of same amount)
Ford: $2.8billion revenue with loss $78million (excluding one off charge)
that's a difference of $1.5billion in sales revenue. A big loss makes great headlines however the big number has very important qualifications.

[music189]

it says in the story Ford spent $282 million on R&D for a $290 million loss

was that r&d money for Australia only or worldwide?

If they didnt do any r&d it would only be $8 million loss

[Joe5619]

A good article by Goauto

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2579FA0011E19D

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

A good article by Goauto

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2579FA0011E19D

I guess only time will tell however it seems that apart from the overall large car sales slide the Falcon sales decline has been explained as part of a deliberate strategy and not unexpected by management. I just wonder what their future plans are going to be?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by music189

it says in the story Ford spent $282 million on R&D for a $290 million loss

was that r&d money for Australia only or worldwide?

If they didnt do any r&d it would only be $8 million loss

Exactly. people jump to conclusions, cry the falcon is dead, carry on like idiots...etc...grinds my gears.


Falcon ain't dead yet fellas!

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Forgetting the tool crap lets look at this with apples vs apples.

Holden: $4.3billion revenue with profit $89.7million (including gov. grant of same amount)
Ford: $2.8billion revenue with loss $78million (excluding one off charge)
that's a difference of $1.5billion in sales revenue. A big loss makes great headlines however the big number has very important qualifications.

apple with apples hey,,, rubbish.

[Chopped]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/63528/ho...loss-for-2009/

Holden reports $210.6 million loss for 2009......

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Exactly. people jump to conclusions, cry the falcon is dead, carry on like idiots...etc...grinds my gears.


Falcon ain't dead yet fellas!

people have been saying falcon is dead for over 20 years. hardly a new movement, but surprisingly, even on a forum of ford 'fans' its extremely popular. who'd have thought.

[JPFS1]

Huge investment in FordAPA and restructuring the business to adhere to the One Ford strategy is the cause for this basically.

No mention of FoE performance? Look at their Revenue and Loss... now you get the picture.

Sure Falcon and Territory sales are low, but out of total revenue streams of local and import product, they both make strong contributions to overall revenue. Combine them as one (being the same platform) and they make up the majority of revenue and margin on these products would be very healthy.

Going forward there's further investment in the local product and you only have to see some modest improvement to monthly sales for local and import to see a nice jump up in revenue. Once the imports are coming in from Thailand, we'll see better margins and access to flex. model mix and supply.

Ford took a hard line on pricing with fleets long ago and this also contributed to their lower sales, they've dumped the un-profitable sale at the expense of volume, but when all else is designed to operate efficiently to meet real demand, they will be able to realise profits again.

Full year 2012, is epected to see a profit in FordAPA.

Good times ahead!

[prydey]

^^^ the sort of stuff you expect to read on a ford forum!!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

No mention of FoE performance? Look at their Revenue and Loss... now you get the picture.

http://www.investorplace.com/2012/03...ope-this-year/

Ford Chief Financial Officer Lewis Booth said this week that Ford could lose between $500 million to $600 million in Europe, according to Bloomberg, with first-quarter pretax losses possibly outdoing the $190 million it lost in Q4 2011.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Sure Falcon and Territory sales are low, but out of total revenue streams of local and import product, they both make strong contributions to overall revenue. Combine them as one (being the same platform) and they make up the majority of revenue and margin on these products would be very healthy.

You're hinting that Falcon + Territory + Ute is still worth around $1.5 billion in revenue,
IMO, it would be insane to cancel those products without any alternate income stream...

Going forward there's further investment in the local product and you only have to see some modest improvement to monthly sales for local and import to see a nice jump up in revenue. Once the imports are coming in from Thailand, we'll see better margins and access to flex. model mix and supply.

Let's hope so..

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

http://www.investorplace.com/2012/03...ope-this-year/

i cant see many people buying in europe, with their economy.

it certainly wont be just ford with red ink, i'd say all car makers will have the same issues.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I think the issue isnt local manufacturing, its the product they're making. Buyers simply don't want large cars anymore. The sales of the Falcon, Commodore and Aurion all underscore that.

cough**fiesta**cough**focus**cough**mondeo**cough. It's Ford Australia, not The Australian Falcon Company

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I just wonder what their future plans are going to be?

Same as other ex car companies that use to screw together vehicles here [Nissan, Mitsubishi]

Totally imported range only, Ford have a massive range of vehicles that can be imported here into AUS.

Lets start off with a F150 @ $30k

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by RASER

Same as other ex car companies that use to screw together vehicles here [Nissan, Mitsubishi]

Totally imported range only, Ford have a massive range of vehicles that can be imported here into AUS.

Lets start off with a F150 @ $30k

Please sit back and think before sprouting this kind of stuff.

Have a look what a Merc is worth in the states, then price one up here...the exchange rate itself has very little to do with it.

Then add on the cost of engineering the thing for RHD....so $30k isnt going to work to well. The Great Wall cars are mid 20's and they are made from recycled parts.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Please sit back and think before sprouting this kind of stuff.

have

Have a look what a Merc is worth in the states, then price one up here...the exchange rate itself has very little to do with it.

Ex-works [FOB] same spec. Benz is the same price for all markets, its up to the importer, and associated taxes together with WHAT they can sell it for, NOT have to sell it for, supply/demand if you will, that causes price creep, a cheap Benz would not work here, its a "luxo" brand

Then add on the cost of engineering the thing for RHD....so $30k isnt going to work to well. The Great Wall cars are mid 20's and they are made from recycled parts.

The F150 would have been designed from day 1 to be RHD, FOMOCO had few issues with the previous efforts of F250 and even Mustangs

GreatWalls are US$6000/pc ex-works, ATECO are making great coin out of them

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by RASER

Lets start off with a F150 @ $30k

Don't be so silly!!

That is a completely unreasonable price for our market.. This is AUSTRALIA, not USA!!!!! You do realise the USA factors in overheads into all selling prices? Australia would pay USA cost price, including factors to pay USA overhead to create the product. Then Australia needs to add in our overheads + Freight & duty. You have no way of knowing what the overhead costs are of either companies in each country are to come up with your price!!

Is like the difference in retail vs. wholesale.. Ford Australia basely becomes a retailer & Ford USA is the wholesaler.

[JPFS1]

A NEW F150 for 30K AUS????

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Please sit back and think before sprouting this kind of stuff.

Have a look what a Merc is worth in the states, then price one up here...the exchange rate itself has very little to do with it.

Then add on the cost of engineering the thing for RHD....so $30k isnt going to work to well. The Great Wall cars are mid 20's and they are made from recycled parts.

Turn Australia into LHD. Would give us a lot more options in vehicles.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Turn Australia into LHD. Would give us a lot more options in vehicles.

hehe in lala land that would be great, but, we still get taxed through the nose thats half the issue.

how about this..we Switch to LHD on the count of 3...1, 2......CRASH!

Some people dont have the brain power to deal with wipers on the other side

[RASER]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

A NEW F150 for 30K AUS????

Sure, they *could* if they want volume.

Baseline/entry F150 in USA RETAILS full-tote-odds for $23,300

I would say Ford builds/costs them for low teens

When the Falcon dies, hope F150 wll be here, the volume market for utes is @$30k

I would have one in a flash

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Polyal

hehe in lala land that would be great, but, we still get taxed through the nose thats half the issue.

how about this..we Switch to LHD on the count of 3...1, 2......CRASH!

Some people dont have the brain power to deal with wipers on the other side

Sweden did it and changed overnight, *can* be done.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Don't be so silly!!

That is a completely unreasonable price for our market.. This is AUSTRALIA, not USA!!!!! You do realise the USA factors in overheads into all selling prices? Australia would pay USA cost price, including factors to pay USA overhead to create the product. Then Australia needs to add in our overheads + Freight & duty. You have no way of knowing what the overhead costs are of either companies in each country are to come up with your price!!

Is like the difference in retail vs. wholesale.. Ford Australia basely becomes a retailer & Ford USA is the wholesaler.

No duty/tariff for US Made Products, just picked up 5% saving.

Shipping is around $700/pc based on full ship load

It costs around the same to run a dealership in USA

FOMOCO can make the profit in USA and sell it here for a low price...*if they wanted to*

Its NOT a unreasonable price, we are just used to and conditioned to being screwed over.

If the Falcon dies they might well look at it, very seriously, they most likely already are now.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by RASER

Sweden did it and changed overnight, *can* be done.

Yes good example, but they are much more progressive than us, much smaller (mass) and EU has RHD and LHD cars getting around on the same roads for a long time...Im telling you know Australia would melt down.

[mik]

Originally Posted by RASER

No duty/tariff for US Made Products, just picked up 5% saving.

Shipping is around $700/pc based on full ship load

It costs around the same to run a dealership in USA

FOMOCO can make the profit in USA and sell it here for a low price...*if they wanted to*

Its NOT a unreasonable price, we are just used to and conditioned to being screwed over.

If the Falcon dies they might well look at it, very seriously, they most likely already are now.

you know all these figures for fact?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yes good example, but they are much more progressive than us, much smaller (mass) and EU has RHD and LHD cars getting around on the same roads for a long time...Im telling you know Australia would melt down.

Infrastructure for starters....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by RASER

No duty/tariff for US Made Products, just picked up 5% saving.

Shipping is around $700/pc based on full ship load

It costs around the same to run a dealership in USA

FOMOCO can make the profit in USA and sell it here for a low price...*if they wanted to*

Its NOT a unreasonable price, we are just used to and conditioned to being screwed over.

If the Falcon dies they might well look at it, very seriously, they most likely already are now.

You have no clue whatsoever.

By the time US cars land here they usually sell for double what they sell for in the US. Fact.

You can spin it anyway you want, but thats the reality.

The other reality is that RHD production will cost X millions of dollars, they then need to factor that cost into however many RHD versions they sell, which will significantly add to the cost of bringing them here, and there are not many other RHD countries that would want them, or sell them in decent enough numbers. Its simply too big and thirsty for most of the world.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I think the issue isnt local manufacturing, its the product they're making. Buyers simply don't want large cars anymore. The sales of the Falcon, Commodore and Aurion all underscore that.

Ford don't just make the Falcon. Territory is wizzing out the door.

People don't want large sedans anymore.

Let's also not forget Ford's great import products that don't sell as well against their competitors. So it's not a just a Falcon problem. It's a Ford Australia problem.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

People don't want large sedans anymore.

They don't but they do...

Its the perception of the falcon and commodore thats effecting sales...


People are buying sedans that are just as big as the two locals...