Let's jump on trucks yet again

[deesun]

Roads are built for all kinds of transport not just trucks. Do you think that if we took all the trucks off the highway between Sydney and Melbourne we would only need a single laned road? On a rail system if a train breaks down it holds up the ones behind it for hours. If there is a derailment it holds up everything behind it for days. For trucks it would be seconds and a few hours at most.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by deesun

Roads are built for all kinds of transport not just trucks. Do you think that if we took all the trucks off the highway between Sydney and Melbourne we would only need a single laned road? On a rail system if a train breaks down it holds up the ones behind it for hours. If there is a derailment it holds up everything behind it for days. For trucks it would be seconds and a few hours at most.

We have a winner! Sure glad someone thought it through properly.
Although, I'd like to add, in that days is a little limited...usually about a week in the instances that I saw...



edit: I'm sorry, that was uncalled for...

[Ben73]

When a train breaks down they run trains around it on the other tracks. Sometimes causes delays but not always. Not nessiceraly hours delay either.

[maty]

Originally Posted by deesun

Roads are built for all kinds of transport not just trucks. Do you think that if we took all the trucks off the highway between Sydney and Melbourne we would only need a single laned road? On a rail system if a train breaks down it holds up the ones behind it for hours. If there is a derailment it holds up everything behind it for days. For trucks it would be seconds and a few hours at most.

the east west(syd-perth) rail line was flooded not that long ago there was a two week delay on freight that went by rail till the track was prepared,compared to 2-3 days by road.

[xisled]

If the government can not even get Melbourne's MYKI working, how is it going to get the freight rail system up to scratch.

Everyday I travel on the West gate freeway in Melbourne. I spend between and hour and hour and a half daily in the traffic each way. No trucks are allowed to be in the right hand lane for most of the trip, it works well. But everyday I do see people trying to race trucks, cut in front of them, making them jam on the brakes, but I also see trucks doing the same thing. I think everybody needs to have some courtesy on the road. A respect each other.

[JC]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226047671011



I don't drive a truck, not looking to take it up, but the knee-jerk reactions to incidents - usually truck drivers and P-platers - is getting ridiculous.

While the result of the accident was tragic, to put the blame on the truck in this case for being in the right lane is unfair.
The driver for whatever reason - mechanical issue perhaps - created a hazard slowing to 30km/h in a 100 zone. If she could have steered the car, she should have headed straight for the emergency lane immediately to her right.

The family follow this up with some suggestions which mostly would have no effect on this case.

*Differing speed limits - causing frustration and more dangerous driving. Car flies past 10km/h faster, cuts off truck. Rinse, repeat.

*Banning trucks from right lanes on freeways and overtaking on single lane roads - enforcing keep left unless overtaking rules for all drivers should be sufficient to address the first point and an outright ban on overtaking on single lane roads is ridiculous. Of course overtaking only when safe is required and if someone is holding a truck up and the truckie pulls out to overtake, slow down and let them pass quickly, then resume. Never speed up as you are being overtaken - car or truck. They are going to drive away from you if you continue at your old speed. Imagine some grey nomad with a caravan doing 80 or less and being stuck behind them for 100km+ because you can't overtake.

*It is already an offense to pull into the safe space of a truck - falls under failing to change lanes only when safe to do so. If that means leaving a 50 metre gap at 100km/h, so be it. Fat chance of it being enforced by Constable Kodak - the main point of traffic enforcement/revenue. It amazes me people do this. If it goes wrong, they risk becoming a hood ornament on the truck. Truckie picks bits of car from bullbar.
There are some truckies that tailgate, I'm sure most of it stems from being repeatedly cut off when you leave a decent gap. I see cars cut off trucks far, far more than I see tailgating trucks.

I recently took a chance taking the right lane to turn right and then needing to turn left a few hundred metres later. I normally take the left lane, but there were 4 semis together in the left lane and I thought I'd miss the lights. After the turn there was a small gap between the slowing truck at 40km/h and cars queued up, but in the end I ended up losing a few minutes "detouring" straight ahead as I couldn't pull it off safely. I appear to be in the minority as I see drivers regularly push in because they feel they MUST make the turn no matter the cost. I was in the wrong lane, so it is my problem if I miss the turn.

Agree with most of what you say. The family is not going to see that it was their daughter "at fault" - the fact charges haven't been laid tend to suggest she was doing something in the right hand lane (slowing to 30 without obvious reason??).

The article should be "ban all women in small hatches from the right hand lane", because on the face of it, this appears to have been the cause of the accident, not the truck driver.

[deesun]

Originally Posted by Ben73

When a train breaks down they run trains around it on the other tracks. Sometimes causes delays but not always. Not nessiceraly hours delay either.

I didn't know that there was dual lines all up and down the east coast where moving trains to another track wouldn't slow/stop the train comming from the other direction? Dual lanes on a highway with runoff areas means traffic only need to slow if at all and there is no effect on the traffic coming from the other direction. Secondly what percentage of freight are we talking about taking off the roads, supermarkets are NEVER EVER going to let rail do the job. Let me know what century you would be able to transport a load from a warehouse Sydneys southern outskirts 450k up the highway by rail in under 6hours. Door to door.

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by Ben73

The trains I drive use 0.4 Litres to move 1 ton 100kms. Is that really inefficient?

He drives trains. He knows what he's talking about.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by deesun

I didn't know that there was dual lines all up and down the east coast where moving trains to another track wouldn't slow/stop the train comming from the other direction? Dual lanes on a highway with runoff areas means traffic only need to slow if at all and there is no effect on the traffic coming from the other direction. Secondly what percentage of freight are we talking about taking off the roads, supermarkets are NEVER EVER going to let rail do the job. Let me know what century you would be able to transport a load from a warehouse Sydneys southern outskirts 450k up the highway by rail in under 6hours. Door to door.

That's right there is not bi di tracks everywhere. As stated before, upgrades would have to be done in some locations to make it more efficient.
Supermarket trucks are not the only ones on the road.


I know that trains will never replace trucks. I was just adding points to the discussions.

Let's keep it the way it is. I just drove 100kms and did not see another train. That's great and I'd be happy to keep it that way.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I was just adding points to the discussions.

Whilst it's interesting to discuss the merits of road vs rail and we all have to an extent, this discussion is actually about one particular accident and they family's call for a clamp down on how trucks operate. It's the reactionary and sensationalist nature of the article that is causing the angst.

The article should be "ban all women in small hatches from the right hand lane", because on the face of it, this appears to have been the cause of the accident, not the truck driver.

This would make for an interesting discussion

[SEZ213]

Haha...lucky I don't drive a small hatch! :P

[atec77]

Originally Posted by BIGJB

Did I ask for sympathy? Don't believe I did.
Drive the section of road in question and you to would have had no hesitation in changing lanes where I did.

Reading some of the comments on here I am amazed a lot of you guys don't end up under a truck if on
the road show the disrespect you seem to show towards trucks.

I doubt that I would have changed lanes , and still no sympathy
I admit to a couple of tickets and an accident in my driving days but after 42 years and no infringements for over 20 years and a couple of million klicks there is a chance I might have clue don't you agree ?
Fact is we get a permit to drive on a very tenious circumstance and continue to learn and improve for decades , I still make mistakes and so did you .

[atec77]

Originally Posted by deesun

Roads are built for all kinds of transport not just trucks. Do you think that if we took all the trucks off the highway between Sydney and Melbourne we would only need a single laned road? On a rail system if a train breaks down it holds up the ones behind it for hours. If there is a derailment it holds up everything behind it for days. For trucks it would be seconds and a few hours at most.

I don't have any proof to the contrary but as I recall the last time bus drivers took umbridge and a day off in Brisbane there was considerably less congestion , people went to work by rail or car pooled and travel times were accordingly reduced , maybe reducing the heavy transports during daytime would make daly driving easier for the public . It might inconvenience a few transport drivers but I could care less as thats your choosen profession .

[BIGJB]

Originally Posted by atec77

I doubt that I would have changed lanes , and still no sympathy
I admit to a couple of tickets and an accident in my driving days but after 42 years and no infringements for over 20 years and a couple of million klicks there is a chance I might have clue don't you agree ?
Fact is we get a permit to drive on a very tenious circumstance and continue to learn and improve for decades , I still make mistakes and so did you .

I'll say it again. I didn't ask for sympathy.
As for your 42 yrs of driving and no infringements and a couple of million clicks. Big deal.
I have do an approximate of 300,000 klm p\y (not a misprint) and have done most of my working career of 18 years with
the exception of about 4 years I spent of the road and can count on 1 hand the amount of infringements I have recieved.
To say you may have a clue because you haven't been caught doesn't prove you are a good driver it proves you have
never been caught. Big difference.

You seem to have this belief going from your last post that you believe most of the traffic congestion on
our roads is due to the "heavy transport" and as such they should be taken off the road during daylight hours.
Remember this next time the transport industry has a major strike and you go down to woolworths and can't buy
fresh produce or can't buy petrol because the service stations have run out of fuel or ya car breaks down and
you need a tow truck. All of these things rely on the "heavy transport you are so keen to want off the road becasue
they make you take longer to get to work.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by deesun

Do you think that if we took all the trucks off the highway between Sydney and Melbourne we would only need a single laned road?.

Im assuming you would have the freight moved between the capitals by some other methond rather than putting it into prius's!

Hadn't really given that scenario much thought, but looking back at the truck traffic on my last trip up the Hume , then yes.

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by BIGJB

I have do an approximate of 300,000 klm p\y (not a misprint) and have done most of my working career of 18 years with
the exception of about 4 years I spent of the road and can count on 1 hand the amount of infringements I have recieved.

300,000 / 365 = nearly 822 kms every day

Now I'm curious...
How many days do you have off per year?
How many hours a day do you drive?

[BIGJB]

Originally Posted by FgNewbie

300,000 / 365 = nearly 822 kms every day

Now I'm curious...
How many days do you have off per year?
How many hours a day do you drive?

Those imparticular klms are from when I was sub contracting, 7 days a week 2 days off per year for 6 yrs straight.
Deliverying donuts and meat pies to 24hr convenience stores and service stations. Would start at 4pm and finish on a good day at 7am.
Only driving a LR so no log books. Lots of cans of V, red frogs and 120 smokes a day to stay awake. lol

[deesun]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Im assuming you would have the freight moved between the capitals by some other methond rather than putting it into prius's!

Hadn't really given that scenario much thought, but looking back at the truck traffic on my last trip up the Hume , then yes.

Yes by train as we were discussing and having the Hume only 1 lane as I said. That would be nice stuck behind the L plater at 80kph for an hour or so in the 110 zone, or the P plater or the caravan/boat/LR/HR tow truck or flat top with the local farmers produce or hay and and and. I can se you really put a lot of thought into it didn't you. But we really should take it to another thread if we are to continue we have gone way off track, so to speak.

[burnz]

all this crap about trucks versus trains WTF...
from capitol city to capitol city there is no congestion, it's all around town is the problem.
trains dont deliver to the door trucks do, so from the train terminal to the grocier is trucked same with containers..

it's all a mute point!!

[atec77]

Originally Posted by BIGJB

Those imparticular klms are from when I was sub contracting, 7 days a week 2 days off per year for 6 yrs straight.
Deliverying donuts and meat pies to 24hr convenience stores and service stations. Would start at 4pm and finish on a good day at 7am.
Only driving a LR so no log books. Lots of cans of V, red frogs and 120 smokes a day to stay awake. lol

ALl those hours , about double those that any normal human can tollerate before becoming tired and making errors , taking stimulants and other things
Excellent judgement on your part well done

[BIGJB]

Originally Posted by atec77

ALl those hours , about double those that any normal human can tollerate before becoming tired and making errors , taking stimulants and other things
Excellent judgement on your part well done

Mate you are a moron. I have worked 90 plus hour weeks since I was 17 y\o, some of us are able to work huge hrs and survive on very little sleep.
I was even working a 35hr week while I was at school and managed to excel in all subjects so obviously I am not normal.

I intend to be retired by the time we are 50 and the only way that happens is by working hard.
Might I also add that I haven't worked since Feb this year and am not recieving any govt handouts. I can do this because
of the hours I have worked throughout my life so tomorrow while you go to your 40hr a week job and you are sitting in the traffic that is
obviously all the fault of the heavy transport on the road spare a thought for me who is goning to be out fishing with
a coldie in my hand.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

ok so you put the freight on trains. are you going to build railway tracks to every shop and service station also so as to distribute the freight. (stupid comment) i am a professional truck driver (fuel tanker driver) and i feel the best way to solve the cars and trucks having to co habit on the nations roads is, more training for learner car drivers with regards to trucks simple. have you seen all the skid marks from trucks all over the roads. it is that easy even with abs to lock a wheel and not be able to stop in a truck. i just think more training needs to be done that's all. oh and the 99% of people that hate trucks would have no fuel in ther cars and starve as there would be no food in the supermarkets. people seem to forget that truckies are working 7 days a week 24 hours a day all over the country delivering the good that everybody lives on and takes for granted.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by deesun

Yes by train as we were discussing and having the Hume only 1 lane as I said. That would be nice stuck behind the L plater at 80kph for an hour or so in the 110 zone, or the P plater or the caravan/boat/LR/HR tow truck or flat top with the local farmers produce or hay and and and. I can se you really put a lot of thought into it didn't you

Have you travelled the Hume recently, just how dense do you reckon the car traffic is once you get rid of heavy vehicles, stuck behind a vehicle doing 80km/h for an hour....dont know anywhere on the Vic side where that would be possible for more than a couple of hundred meters, even when it was single lane all the way!, simply fanciful.

Originally Posted by deesun

But we really should take it to another thread if we are to continue we have gone way off track, so to speak.

Convenient to go to that option now, given that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by atec77

ALl those hours , about double those that any normal human can tollerate before becoming tired and making errors , taking stimulants and other things
Excellent judgement on your part well done

yeh mate you wouldn't have a clue what your on about. i work under fatigue managemant and i can legally work 15 hours a day. that is 14 hrs driving and a one hour break.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by teak81

yeh mate you wouldn't have a clue what your on about. i work under fatigue managemant and i can legally work 15 hours a day. that is 14 hrs driving and a one hour break.

and you drive a fuel tanker?, if that is the industry reg? and not being personal here: then all I can do is scream that is absurd!

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by JC

Agree with most of what you say. The family is not going to see that it was their daughter "at fault" - the fact charges haven't been laid tend to suggest she was doing something in the right hand lane (slowing to 30 without obvious reason??)..

Yes, there appears to be something in the fact that the truck driver is not going to be charged.

but whether the woman slowed down to talk on her phone, traffic banked up in front of her forcing her to slow, her car lost engine power.....whatever, is largely irrelevant when we have a requirement that the person following is responsible for not running into you, as far as I know there is no list of exceptions written down, especially:

if you are driving a B double(whatever) you dont have to worry about that reg because you are a heavy vehicle and you are not required to maintain a speed and/or distance to avoid anything because you deliver stuff to supermarkets and the country needs you.....

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by deesun

On a rail system if a train breaks down it holds up the ones behind it for hours. If there is a derailment it holds up everything behind it for days. For trucks it would be seconds and a few hours at most.

Derailments are basically a function of poor maintenance of the tracks, something that can be avoided with good management and infrastructure.

Trucks with flat tyres, yep generally they dont lose control and block the road, so at best the cause a couple of seconds delay for other traffic.....but you have been living under a rock if you dont remember incidents such as these: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...31/3104386.htm, http://www.fullyloaded.com.au/indust...eid/62368.aspx,
you only need to type "tanker" and "closed highway" into google to realise its a very common occurence, and certainly fire balls and dealing with leaking fuel take more than a "couple of hours' to sort out!

Interestingly it is trucks that are the cause of many derailments at level crossing collisions!

[deesun]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Convenient to go to that option now, given that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Not convenient just curteous we had strayed too far from the original subject as it had been subtly pointed out in a previous post.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Yes, there appears to be something in the fact that the truck driver is not going to be charged.

but whether the woman slowed down to talk on her phone, traffic banked up in front of her forcing her to slow, her car lost engine power.....whatever, is largely irrelevant when we have a requirement that the person following is responsible for not running into you, as far as I know there is no list of exceptions written down, especially:

if you are driving a B double(whatever) you dont have to worry about that reg because you are a heavy vehicle and you are not required to maintain a speed and/or distance to avoid anything because you deliver stuff to supermarkets and the country needs you.....

Alright, firstly - it's not irrelevant, in fact it's very relevant. The truck driver is NOT going to be charged, ergo...he WASN'T in the wrong. Or as you will say, 'maybe he was, they just can't prove it blah blah blah'.

You might want to do some light reading, perhaps brush up on the law...?

Originally Posted by sudszy

Have you travelled the Hume recently, just how dense do you reckon the car traffic is once you get rid of heavy vehicles, stuck behind a vehicle doing 80km/h for an hour....dont know anywhere on the Vic side where that would be possible for more than a couple of hundred meters, even when it was single lane all the way!, simply fanciful.

Convenient to go to that option now, given that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Secondly, you drove the Hume ONCE recently? Is that right? You don't sound like you're really qualified to make assumptions about one day of traffic.

Simply put, dual lanes are required as you go up the Eastern States, be it the Hume or the Newell. And having driven the Newell on more than one occasion from Brisbane to Victoria (I'd say every 4 months for 4 years is pretty 'regular' compared to the average person), there is NO huge difference in traffic, even when you take the trucks out - why do you think B-Doubles leave yards at 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the afternoon?

As far as knowing what you're talking about - you're far from the mark.

Originally Posted by teak81

yeh mate you wouldn't have a clue what your on about. i work under fatigue managemant and i can legally work 15 hours a day. that is 14 hrs driving and a one hour break.

Absolutely.



Simply put for those who think it's absurd - fatigue management was and still is, an integral part of a business. It was introduced for a reason, no, it's not fantastic - but it stops the general public whinging. Actually it probably doesn't, because people rabbit on that books are changed, blah blah blah.

- STANDARD hours are still 12 hours.
- Basic Fatigue management allows DRIVING for 14 hours
- Advanced Fatigue management allows operators to be a little more flexible than both the above, obviously dependent on the risk of their business.

Now out of curiosity...who is actually qualified to speak in that respect? Someone who keeps harping about not requiring a dual carriageway heading into rural NSW if all road transport is switched to rail?

Or the drivers and staff who make sure that everything gets their safely...

I'm not singling you out, I'm stating facts. Ones that you seem to have overlooked as they don't suit.

Give it a rest, you're not the grand poo-bah of the roads. Accept it, and move on.

[DJR-351]

One of my brothers has been a truck driver for 32 years, and even he agrees there are too many on the roads these days....