Church Of Climatology

[olfella]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

Posted in wrong thread

Then what is the right thread??

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by MO

is the ETS now dead in the water.

From my understanding Tony Abbot just wants to wait till fter Copenhagen to see what all the options are and have a proper debate on the whole matter.

[olfella]

Well Turnbull reckons I am a skeptic and Wong says I am an extremist!! Don't care about the name calling but I am glad the issue is now in the public arena and proper debate and discussion can now take place.

Com'on Kev and tell us what is in the Treaty you are in such a hurry to sign.

[MO]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

From my understanding Tony Abbot just wants to wait till fter Copenhagen to see what all the options are and have a proper debate on the whole matter.

And rightly so. Maybe now is the time to start lobbying the pollies for a referendum on this.

[BAFalconXT]

Anyone who thinks Greens groups who believe in climate change have more power and money than companies or organisations that would prefer no environmental regulation are seriously deluded.

Somehow, I believe it is the same politicians that wanted work choices are the same people who don't believe in climate change. Profit at the expensive of workers and the environment.

I hardly think the Labour Party rely on funding from pro-environmental groups as much as the Liberal Party rely on funding from companies that heavily pollute Australia.

[Hardtopxb]

I recon Rudd just wanted to be able to say "look how good we are ,we already have an ETS solution" when he fronts up at Copenhagen.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by olfella

Well Turnbull reckons I am a skeptic and Wong says I am an extremist!! Don't care about the name calling but I am glad the issue is now in the public arena and proper debate and discussion can now take place.

Com'on Kev and tell us what is in the Treaty you are in such a hurry to sign.

Don't forget KRudd calling us all "deniers".

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by BAFalconXT

Anyone who thinks Greens groups who believe in climate change have more power and money than companies or organisations that would prefer no environmental regulation are seriously deluded.

Somehow, I believe it is the same politicians that wanted work choices are the same people who don't believe in climate change. Profit at the expensive of workers and the environment.

I hardly think the Labour Party rely on funding from pro-environmental groups as much as the Liberal Party rely on funding from companies that heavily pollute Australia.

You might find it funny but Tonay Abbot actually admitted today to having made "mistakes" in the past with regard to policy, this time he wants to have a proper forum for it all. When they pushed through Workchoices they did it pretty similarly to what KRudds now trying to do, thing was Labor buckled and let it in.

Pro Environmentalist group?? You mean the guys that stand to gain the most financially, no not the greenies, but the new "green trading companies" will be behind alot of it. They satnd to make many, many, many, many, many, many and even many more billions from any such policies. Once trading is common place they will be making crap loads off the back of deals they set up in way of commisions.

Le tme guess, I'm a conspiracy theorist right?? wrong, just someone that believes democracy means people knowing why governments do what they do.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

When they pushed through Workchoices they did it pretty similarly to what KRudds now trying to do, thing was Labor buckled and let it in.

No, not at all. Liberals had a senate majority and rammed work choices through.

[MO]

^^^ and holding them accountable.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by cs123

No, not at all. Liberals had a senate majority and rammed work choices through.

Wasn't that why KB was "retired" for, I remember a few arguing but didn't a few cross the floor on that one as well??

[SB076]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

From my understanding Tony Abbot just wants to wait till fter Copenhagen to see what all the options are and have a proper debate on the whole matter.

Plus if the current government puts ETS to the vote and some members of the coalition cross the floor we could still have an ETS system before Copenhagen.

[gtfpv]

. i see liberals doing well by sticking to what they stand for . turnbull defected on the party and contradicted his own previous stance . RUDD has gone along the same track as what cost the liberals the last election . the ingredients are the same . rudd really needs to look at what he has done. arrogent governments always go down especially when they withdraw from public debates and referrendems .

[Walt Kowalski]

THANK YOU EVERYBODY!

What a fantastic day for Australia.

When I started this thread the Leaders of the two major political parties in Australia had just that morning agreed to conspire against the people of Australia and today Turnbull is no longer the leader and Krudd is back in Washington with Barrack Hussein Obama after his plane had to be turned around “for a mechanical fault”.......

It has bought Australia time and at least we do not look like being the first Western Civilised country to adopt the Extra Tax System at this stage.

It was a close vote 42 to 43 so maybe, just maybe our thread had some impact somewhere with someone who influenced one vote. I know many people rang their local parliamentarians and State Senators and that was great.

Thank you especially to the Moderators at AFF who realised this was not a political thread.

It is a thread about our freedom and democracy.


Thank you once again.

I can go back to building my car

P.S. I will be leaving rep for those who put in some really hard yards here

[Falcon Coupe]

Today is a step in the right direction, if the Liberals hold the issue until after Copenhagen at least we can see what the rest of the world plans to do before we commit to anything.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

THANK YOU EVERYBODY!

What a fantastic day for Australia.

When I started this thread the Leaders of the two major political parties in Australia had just that morning agreed to conspire against the people of Australia and today Turnbull is no longer the leader and Krudd is back in Washington with Barrack Hussein Obama after his plane had to be turned around “for a mechanical fault”.......

It has bought Australia time and at least we do not look like being the first Western Civilised country to adopt the Extra Tax System at this stage.

It was a close vote 42 to 43 so maybe, just maybe our thread had some impact somewhere with someone who influenced one vote. I know many people rang their local parliamentarians and State Senators and that was great.

Thank you especially to the Moderators at AFF who realised this was not a political thread.

It is a thread about our freedom and democracy.


Thank you once again.

I can go back to building my car

P.S. I will be leaving rep for those who put in some really hard yards here

Well Walt, we all know it is not over yet but at least the issue is out in the public arena.

Another big thanks for the moderators. There was a few occasions when I thought the thread would be closed - but they kept a close eye on comments and acted appropriately.

[xtremerus]

Well done Moderators.
Makes you think though, do they have a life?

[Mr Hardware]

TODAY IS A GREAT DAY FOR AUSTRALIA

WE HAVE BEEN SAVED BY THE UNNECESSARY AND CRIPPLING EXTRA TAX SYSTEM

THANKFULLY THE PREVAILING MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT (THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE) HAVE SHOWN THEIR COURAGE AND STOPPED THIS TRAVESTY FROM TAKING PLACE

also thankyou mods for realising this isn't a i love liberal vs i love labor thread but a thread about australians freedom and rights.

[rodderz]

Interesting article about the Copenhagen treaty and it's possible agenda behind it- this is why the ETS has to be stopped, otherwise we become part of it

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com....penhagen_plot/

[Saraco]

To quote Tony Abbott on tonights news: '' GLOBAL WARMING IS CRAP'': unquote. Saved from the clutches of the ALP MKII i.e the LIBERAL party until very recently!

[MO]

Originally Posted by svov88

To quote Tony Abbott on tonights news: '' GLOBAL WARMING IS CRAP'': unquote. Saved from the clutches of the ALP MKII i.e the LIBERAL party until very recently!

I think you'll find that,that was said sometime ago and he has to a degree recanted it.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Don't forget KRudd calling us all "deniers".

That really irks the educated public. The language and rhetoric used by the current government about climate change is along the same line as the language used when WMD's were being used as an excuse to invade Iraq.

History has shown us that excuse to invade Iraq was a fraud, hopefully the opposition has enough time up it's sleeve to convince the public the ETS/CPRS is a fraud when it comes to reducing CO2 emissions.

Today is a great day for democracy!

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Interesting article about the Copenhagen treaty and it's possible agenda behind it- this is why the ETS has to be stopped, otherwise we become part of it

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com....penhagen_plot/

The blog is indeed interesting, as are Andrew Bolt's blogs. What puzzles me though is why these reporters/opinion columnists do not attempt to make this page 1 news in their newspapers. Surely the Copenhagen treaty warrants such attention it should be front page news.......

[XRQTR]

This was part of a Yahoo7 news headline this morning, I can't believe they already have ad campaigns about the new leader seeing he only just got in less than 24 hrs ago, anyone else get the feeling the current government is leading the way in smear/fear campaigns?? Must be their version of shock and awe.

Originally Posted by Yahoo7

Attack begins</h3>;

The Government, meanwhile, has begun its attack on the new Liberal leader with an ad highlighting Mr Abbott's views on WorkChoices and his description of climate change as absolute crap.
Assistant Climate Change Minister Greg Combet says Mr Abbott's leadership shows the party has been taken over by "extremists".

"Tony Abbott and those who support him do not believe in climate change, they are climate change deniers, they are climate change sceptics and they are opposed to any action on climate change," he said.
"Do not forget the fact that only a short period of time ago Mr Abbott himself used the words that climate change is absolute crap.

"Any talk by such people like Senator [Nick] Minchin, Mr Abbott about deferral for consideration is not to be believed."
Damage done</h3>;
Mr Abbott admits he will have to accommodate those who opposed him in the leadership ballot, but is confident the Liberal Party can recover from the events of the last week.

"Of course I do and I will. I really mean that. I want Joe Hockey to be the shadow treasurer. Chris Pyne will certainly be the manager of Opposition business," Mr Abbott told PM.
Mr Hockey has not yet decided what he will do, but Mr Turnbull is now going to the backbench and has strongly defended his deal on the ETS.

Mr Abbott acknowledges the damage done to the Liberal Party brand, but says if Labor can recover from dire times to win an election, the Liberals certainly can too.
"I hope that we can have an election within a year and I can be Prime Minister," he said.

He also denies he is beholden to Senator Nick Minchin.
"I obviously have a very high regard for Nick but I'm my own man, always have been, always will be," he said.

Policy plans</h3>;

Mr Abbott has also flagged a generous maternity leave scheme for consideration going into the next election, but says it is not policy at this point in time.
"I really like the idea of giving a fair go to families and reversing Labor's means tests on a whole lot of family benefits, means tests that they promised they wouldn't introduce before the election and told fibs about," he said.

"I really like the idea of empowering local people when it comes to schools and hospitals. I think these are important ideas which will really improve our society."
Mr Abbott has previously said the name of WorkChoices is dead but today was coy about whether the policy itself is.

"We must have a free and flexible and fair workplace because without that we can't have a prosperous economy, and you know you can't have a community without an economy to sustain it," Mr Abbott said.

"The sad thing about what Kevin Rudd has done is that he hasn't just undone John Howard's policy but he's also undone Paul Keating's policy."

[rodderz]

For those wanting to know more about the ETS, here is a powerpoint presentation about it that did the email rounds lately. Not sure how accurate, but then again, how accurate is the governments version?
http://www.excelerate.com.au/downloa...esentation.pps

[MO]

They would of had this and other stuff ready to go as soon as the spill was mentioned. All they do is change the name and some of the text to reflect on who they are attacking.
The Libs have the same stockpole of stuff too for when they might need it,to attack Labor.

[Falcon Coupe]

Climategate has made the mainstream headlines:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

[rodderz]

lol... the way things go viral these days, hopefully this goes the same way and the truth comes out

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Climategate has made the mainstream headlines:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

I like this one most, it's got the real reasons behind GW/CC alarmists rants.

Originally Posted by HeraldSun

Hand it to hustling Gore
Andrew Bolt – Wednesday, December 02, 09 (11:47 am)
What a gravy train is pulling into Copenhagen:

“Have you ever shaken hands with an American vice president? If not, now is your chance. Meet Al Gore in Copenhagen during the UN Climate Change Conference,” notes the Danish tourism commission, which is helping Mr. Gore promote “Our Choice,” his newest book about global warming in all its alarming modalities.

Price? 5,999 Danish kroners or $1300.

UPDATE

JoNova warns:

Sub-prime carbon is coming

Behind the scenes, large financial houses are moving in stealthily. In 2008, carbon trading worldwide reached $126 billion and is projected to grow to become a $2-$10 trillion dollar market, or “The largest commodity traded world wide”. The largest. That’s bigger than oil, coal, gas, or iron.

All those trillions invested in hot air. Here’s a smash you can see coming from miles off.

First you have Gore, getting his message accross, while at the same time making millions in the process through books and the talk circuit, but more importantly the new commodity of Pollution Trading, as they say "Trillions invested in Hot Air".

Wall street will again make more money that anyone could ever know what to do with, why don't they f'n tax them.



p.s. I wonder if they made it illegal to actually profit from Carbon Trading how long it would be before they found new evidence to say that the world is actually ok and is just going through a natural cycle. Although even then they'd probably find another angle to make money.

[XRQTR]

This is also pretty true, I had an experience last years I think it was with the Dr Karl show on JJJ. They were talking about climate change and global warming and wanted people to ask questions about things they needed answered. Anyway they have a call screening process when they first answer and asked what my question was, I said "I'd like to knwo whether any research has been done on rising seas that could show how much could be attributed to greater stormwater outpoors brought about by increasing urban sprawls worldwide".

She said they'd covered that on a previous show and hung up, thanks ye, nice, I don't bother much with Dr Karl anymore LOL, mind you most of the questions were along the lines of "how bad will it hit us" and "what can we do to stop it?". Not one person put up an alternative view, or should that read, not one person was given the opportunity to put up an alternative view.

But this is on ABC radio, again from Andrew Bolt blog a commentary from an interview :

Originally Posted by ABCRadio

UPDATE 4

Beverley O’Connor fills in for Jon Faine on Melbourne ABC’s morning show, and it’s politics as usual.

One of her very first interviews is with a NSW gay and lesbian campaigner on how terrible it is that Abbott is against gay-marriage, and is Christian as well. Only in her last question, perhaps prompted by listeners’ texts, does O’Connor remind the campaigner that Kevin Rudd is also a Christian and also against gay marriage. This seems to startle the activist, who up to that point made Abbott seem in a troglodyte class of his own..

Tony Abbott then comes on the line and is greeted with O’Connor playing an entire Labor hit-ad at him before asking him to comment. When did the ABC start an interview with Rudd by playing a Liberal ad? O’Connor asks him if he’s been promoted above his competence.

O’Connor laughs along with a caller who rings up for an extended spray against the “sneak” Abbott that embraces everything from being a “failed priest” and having shifty eyes.

Later she has on veteran Howard-hater Mungo McCallum (who, for instance, has sneered that Howard was an “unflushable "). They agree that Abbott was a “thug” and a “hitman”. O’Connor notes that Paul Keating at least had “dignity” - a quality that will have escaped many. By this stage conservative listeners have had enough: the first on air tells the pair to give Abbott a fair go. He is cut off. The second informs McCallum his facts are wrong. No more calls are taken.

McCallum then goes on to praise Rudd for doing great things. His only criticism is that Rudd could have done more, and we must wait for his second term. O’Connor agrees Rudd is believing criticised by some of not giving us all he’d promised. More please!

O’Connor then has on two “spin doctors” who are meant to represent both sides of the political divide. Yet all agree on the need to “do something” on “climate change”. O’Connor suggests those against the emissions trading scheme tend to be those who simply don’t “want to engage”. All agree as well that Abbott is “divisive”. Turnbull wasn’t?

Again, the first caller to this segment complains about lack of balance, pointing out the program had, with the McCallum interview, sounded like a broadcast from “Trades Hall”. The third caller agrees with the first that Rudd seems insincere. The fifth doubts the global warming science and is cut off.

Does the ABC truly think this kind of political coverage - just one example of thousands we could produce over a year - is fair and balanced? Even its listeners now are complaining