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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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14-05-2008, 10:05 PM | #1 | ||
FG Falcon fan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
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If I read another so-called journo say that Aussies are turning their backs on large sedans I will spew. These mongos are being fooled by the stats.
1. The Commodore is no.2 and the Falcon will be top 10 in monthly vehicle sales by the end of June. Their relative market share isnt what it was because tariffs have come down and aussies are richer. 2. Most families these days own TWO cars, and in many of those cases one is a large sedan. My family has an XR6T and my mrs has a Mazda 3. When I grew up my olds had one car for quite a while. 3. Your typical commodore and Falcon costs much more than a corolla so its high placing is commendable. 4. (neg) Admittedly fleet sales make up a big % of the sales of corollas, commodores, falcons. 5. Ford successfully hived off some falcon sales into Territory sales - thats not a failure, thats meeting customer demand. 6. Tariffs on imported cars have been reduced from heaps to 10% (currently, due to be 5% by 2010). So the local manufacturers are still competing despite our tiny population. 7. The f*ckin Falcon XR6 Turbo rocks! And poos all over any old grandpa, who usually is an average driver, in his poopy camry. (compelling argument hey!) |
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14-05-2008, 10:28 PM | #2 | ||
...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,046
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I was reading today that the commodore/falcon sales 10 years ago was at 37% and is currently at 11%.
Also that falcon sales for the year are down 20% on last year which was 20% down on the previous year also. Part of that is obviously because there is a new model just about here but there has been some pretty good price cuts over the last year to help make up for that and thats not really an excuse for the previous years. I can't speak for anyone else so i'll give you my point of view. I love my BA. Its fast enough for me, sounds and looks awesome IMO, and is still surprisingly good on fuel (<10L/100k's) when i'm not up it everywhere. The problem isn't with the car, its an awesome car. The problem is that even if i get 700K's from a tank its costing me close to $100 every time i fill it up and its just too much. I don't want some little front wheel drive girls car, i want my big loud black rear drive, torquey mans car but i can barely afford it now and when fuel gets to $1.80, $1.90, $2 per litre i will have to sell it. Its exactly that simple for me. |
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14-05-2008, 10:34 PM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, Newcastle NSW
Posts: 3,164
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You just have to drive on the roads to see what is happening in the market. It is clear modern small cars are dominating our roads. I don't think the stats are wrong ( or fooling anyone) at all. I am just hoping the new falcon can work it's way up to the top 5, but with little rice burners selling for $12990 onwards I think it will be an up-hill battle. Bring on the diesel falcon!
Last edited by duaned; 14-05-2008 at 10:41 PM. |
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14-05-2008, 10:39 PM | #4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ...in the shed
Posts: 3,386
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How about the Govt. reduce fuel taxes which will surely keep the large car market alive, therefore keeping Aussies with a job at a local car manufacturer, making a home grown Australian car, also raise the tariffs on imported cars while they're at it.
Take us back 10-20 years. |
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14-05-2008, 10:46 PM | #5 | ||
Forum Director
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boro
Posts: 1,187
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You're fairly new here so I'll point a couple of things out.
While we all love our Fords here, your argument is parochial at best and likely to get you torn to shreds. Your zeal is commendable, your logic in this case somewhat less so. We don't appreciate such titles to threads, nor continual evading of the swear filter. Some is allowed to fly depending upon context, but it is never looked kindly upon in thread titles. I'm glad to see such keen Ford enthusiasts, but please bear in mind that the majority of people here are adult and appreciate a well made argument which doesn't require colourful language to be effective. |
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15-05-2008, 05:41 AM | #6 | |||
Regular Schmuck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
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Possibly the best and most comprehensive breakdown of sales data you'll ever see is right here. Thanks Russellw. http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=501 The list you provided does very little to counteract the argument of the jounos. Could you review the above graphs and advise exactly where the stats are being misinterpreted? |
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15-05-2008, 06:57 AM | #7 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 317
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15-05-2008, 07:33 AM | #8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,840
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Quote:
:dr_Evil: |
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15-05-2008, 07:34 AM | #9 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wollongong NSW
Posts: 419
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I'm a car salesperson and my experience is that nowadays we get 1 in 20 people ask for large cars. Small to medium cars are more realistic trend mainly due to the cost of rising petrol. They want something more economical and something that won't hit them in the face when they need to fill up the tank everytime. I have spoken to other car yards around my area and its the same story.
On that note: Holden is doing a good job aggressively advertising their commodores to stay in the market race. Ford should put in more effort in advertising too. |
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15-05-2008, 08:02 AM | #10 | |||||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 92
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sorry mate, spew all you like but the the journo is right. the average aussie is turning their back on large cars, stats are facts, they are good indicators......you said it yourself market share iis decreasing, give me one good argument showing that aussies arent turning their backs on larger cars. |
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15-05-2008, 02:04 PM | #11 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 214
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As one of the people who makes the falcon I can assure you we have known and been aware of the demise of the large car sector for more than a decade. Over and above the arguments that have been put forth, the basic fact is that there is almost no "normal" family as they used to be, with 1 car dad working and mum at home with the 2.3 kids. Every thing has changed which is why Corolla have been best sellers so many times. It's not the car it's the market. I would love to print you off a chart of these facts, but i'm not smart enough to figure out how.
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15-05-2008, 02:26 PM | #12 | ||
Secret Sleuth
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 306
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So given that its so obvious to all and sundry that the large market has declined dramatically and will continue to do so unless fuel prices fall dramatically (yeah right) then isnt the next logical conclusion from a business perspective to design and build Aussie made small and medium cars to undercut the Japanese and Euro competition?
Ford and GM are losing billions yet anyone 10 years old and up can see what the business solution would be. Or is it a case of the dinosaurs becoming extinct because they wont adapt to change?
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BF Mk2.5 XR6 Turbo |
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15-05-2008, 02:31 PM | #13 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 92
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ding ding i would have thought that that would be the smart move, i guess you would assume the big guys at the OEMs would no better......but sometimes im not so sure |
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15-05-2008, 02:32 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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you haven't heard of SVI gas? you have the full power of petrol driven and the running cost of a rubber band special
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__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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15-05-2008, 02:32 PM | #15 | |||
Life's a Gas
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,029
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Quote:
Last edited by Abacus; 15-05-2008 at 02:38 PM. |
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15-05-2008, 02:36 PM | #16 | |||
Life's a Gas
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,029
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No doubt the 2010 V6 will have either SVI or liquid gas injection, but it should be here now!! |
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15-05-2008, 02:38 PM | #17 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 102
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The real trouble for the classic Falcon or Commodore will come when fleets and government turn away from them due to the petrol costs and low resale return.
Personally I love old 6's and 8's. as one with 300,000 on the clock is just fine, where as a 1.6l lazer with 300,000 on the clock is lucky to still be alive. Unfortunalty the state of the car in 20 years is not going to effect the fleet buyers decision, seeing as they ditch their cars after 2-3 years. Environmental pressures have, and will continue to cause the government buyers to leave these cars too. I work In tassie and have seen the new "approved" government cars list. This list limits the cars the govt departments here are allowd to purchase/lease etc and the big sedans are getting the flick unless the department can prove there is a specific need for a vechile that size, such as towing. *edit for my rubbish spelling
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www.1kracing.com "Anything else is just racing wallets". 1977 351 Ford LTD! |
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15-05-2008, 02:45 PM | #18 | |||
Life's a Gas
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,029
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Ford could have manufactured a dedicated SVI Falcon for about the same price as a petrol one. Same performance, 40-50% lower fuel costs. All the advantages of a large car with the fuel costs of a Corolla. Instead they stuck with the old-school E-gas engine, which is fine, except it loses about 40kw to the petrol engine. Surely, it didn't have to be this way. |
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15-05-2008, 03:47 PM | #19 | ||
SY TS Territory
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 596
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Sad to say but the increasing fuel costs will effect large car sales. I love my BA and Territory but when I bought the Territory in 2006 petrol was about 1.05 to 1.15 its now pushing 1.50, I like alot of people are now thinking will I be able to afford these increasing costs of fuel and if it keeps going up then the Terri and BA will be downsized, Im hoping Ford will as they claim have a diesel large car available soon
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15-05-2008, 04:22 PM | #20 | |||
Regular Schmuck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
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15-05-2008, 04:33 PM | #21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 549
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A high powered version of this would cut fuel costs for the falcons to next too nothing, could be a few years away though.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4214707.html
__________________
BA 03XR6T, 968's, SS CAI, PWR Cooler,Nizpro valve springs, BMC,Typhoon 18's, Brembos, 3 1/2' cat back Future mods Blisten shocks and King springs.391rwhp |
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15-05-2008, 04:35 PM | #22 | |||
Donating Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,883
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The public is voting with it's cheque's ! There are many more marques competing in the market then there were 20 years ago. Company cars are often "user choosers", or "salary sacrifice" these days. So the driver can choose the car they want, rather than be told they are getting a Falcon OR a Commodore. Imported cars are much cheaper than they were and are very competitively priced (tarriff reduction) Imports used to account for 20% of the market, now it's more like 80%. SUV's are now popular and often chosen for the family ahead of a large car (that wasn't an option 20 years ago). Fuel is getting more expensive. Tastes change. The Ford and Holden 'brand's' aren't as strong as they once were because of the increased competition. The large car IS dying. |
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15-05-2008, 04:45 PM | #23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 549
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They should have a 300kw one of these in few years, drop it the falcon and off you go . but could be tricky modding it!
http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...cus/index.html
__________________
BA 03XR6T, 968's, SS CAI, PWR Cooler,Nizpro valve springs, BMC,Typhoon 18's, Brembos, 3 1/2' cat back Future mods Blisten shocks and King springs.391rwhp |
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15-05-2008, 08:45 PM | #24 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Nah, large cars arn't dead, just the heart of the machine is on the edge....
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15-05-2008, 09:30 PM | #25 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 203
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Yes agree here, effin Govt is screwing us badly.Double dipping .Also effin fuel companies are massive trollops that could not care what they charge. Man the banks are just as bad .The whole world is stuffed.You all wait and see what Iran has got going on. If you think the fuelies have it good just wait , Iran is going to bowl everyone over and I do not mean in a war type way.These guys are really thinking ahead. |
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16-05-2008, 08:26 AM | #26 | |||
SY TS Territory
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 596
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16-05-2008, 10:30 AM | #27 | |||
Secret Sleuth
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 306
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Also in addition to my first post where are the diesels (both Falcon and Commodore?) BMW now sells the majority of its cars in this country as diesels yet we dont even offer one! (yes yes ones coming, thats all we ever seem to hear. They will shut their doors by then.) By all means keep the hero cars - I certainly love my GT - but if you want to keep the companies viable they need good small, medium local built cars with diesel options. SVI is all well and good but the public seem to hate gas with a passion - diesel is "trendy". It sounds like I'm being harsh, but its that I just dont want to see the local industry die in this country.
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BF Mk2.5 XR6 Turbo |
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16-05-2008, 05:06 PM | #28 | ||
Life's a Gas
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,029
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I agree Ford has been slow to respond to the changing market conditions. IMO the blame for this has to be laid at the lack of leadership at head office during the Gormless years.
That being said, there is a limit to how quickly a large organisation like a car manufacturer can move. 2010 is going to be a huge year. Facilifts and new models, new engines galore including diesels, presumably new transmissions to suit, closing Geelong, Australian assembly of the Focus. The fact that these events are all happening at once probably mean that Broadmeadows have as much stuff as they can handle atm. Looking forward I'd like to see Ford commit to Australian assembly of the Mondeo, but I guess it has to prove itself in the marketplace first. The other thing I'd like to see Ford do is produce dedicated injected LPG variants of all models, including Focus and Mondeo. Injected LPG saps so little power as compared with petrol that the difference is unnoticeable in day to day driving, and it would work well in the 4 cylinder cars. Ditching the fuel system, as they have done with the current E-gas falcons, means they can have large dual-tank LPG supplies under the car whilst preserving boot/load space. The cost of manufacture shouldn't be much more than the cost of producing the petrol variants - the main additional cost is in the steel LPG tanks, as compared to the petrol variety. And with petrol tipped to go through the $2.00 a litre barrier sooner rather than later, the fuel cost savings even on a Focus would be significant. |
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18-05-2008, 12:19 PM | #29 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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The diesel in 2010 will be a big bonus that will go someway towards helping the large car survive, and the Focus in 2011 will help Ford Australia remain viable. The V6 is supposed to be more economical as well, especially if it has Direct Injection which results in better economy and up to a 25% reduction in emissions, which might attract green conscience buyers. An LPG injection option should also be available for the V6.
So Ford are making steps towards the future. |
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