Media largely responsible for failing large car segment

[prydey]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...22-421,00.html


of course people aren't going to buy large cars if the media keep telling everyone the doom and gloom stories about how bad they are and how fuel prices have really dented the sales etc etc.

I for one don't take too much notice of what i read in the media and I know there are plenty of guys on here that can also make up there own mind on where its at, but I also know that there are a lot of people out there who do believe all the hype and think a prius is the way to go.

The article above will have you believe that large cars are depreciating faster than before. whilst this may have a degree of truth its not entirely accurate. In 2000 I bought an EL futura wagon for $16000. Thats 8 years ago and depreciation hasn't changed a whole lot since. Yes it may be slightly worse but the media will have you believe the car is barely worth anything. a 3 yr old futura wagon today is still selling for 15 - 19k depending on model and km's. not all doom and gloom i'd say.

by making special mention of a falcon, its not going to be doing sales any favours either.

[|||]

i think a lot has changed since the EL days. for one smaller cars are so much better than they used to be. add in all the SUVs being bought people with large families or towing requirements and you have the falcon being left in no mans land.

[bathurst77]

/quote from artical
"The AU Classic was worth $32,000 when he signed on the dotted lined in 2004..."
/endquote
How the hell could he have bought an AU for 32,000 in 2004? BA had been on market for about 2 years? Classic was based on Forte or Futura? perhaps a Ghia or XR8 or something special might have been worth 32 by then.

If it was AU. he either bought in new in 2002 or earlier.. so thats 2 years more depreciation or he paid far too much.

[Dan Gordon]

The market is changing so quickly, week by week the retention value of large cars is going down the drain. I had a 2004 BA Fairmont sedan in extremely good condition come in to work with 60,000km it and is only worth 8 grand...when you see these cars come in every day you start to see the pattern forming lol

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by Dan Gordon

The market is changing so quickly, week by week the retention value of large cars is going down the drain. I had a 2004 BA Fairmont sedan in extremely good condition come in to work with 60,000km it and is only worth 8 grand...when you see these cars come in every day you start to see the pattern forming lol

I'd believe it. My 04 BA GT is only worth 19-20k as a trade in. Redbook means absolutely nothing anymore. People who get the higher trade in prices need to realise that the extra money is only coming off the top of the new car's price.

Having said that, I agree with prydey's original comment. The market is being influenced by the media without doubt.

[Wretched]

I don't agree with the OP I don't see how you can prove this.

The media will report on a lot of things but ultimately the fuel prices are influencing people's choice of car. At $1.60 for fuel compared to say 2002 at $.70, thats a fair jump and combined with the increase in food and interest rates people would either dump the car or downgrade. I did myself and lost 28k in 5 years on a falcon.

Then there is also the introduction of better cars to the market, giving buyers a better selection to choose from.

With or without the media, car purchasing would have been affected due to a whole lot of factors.

[NIK516]

i agree with all of that wretched , we got two large cars rodeo and bravo, and i cant wait till the bravo is another two years old so i can buy a small car.

for me a large car will only ever be viable if i lived in a place were i needed to travel large distances over and over again.

and i dont see it as a negative thing that the media is sledging large cars i see it as a positive for large car makers telling them to invest in something else.

we have to come to the realization that its all coming to a end.

[Whitey-AMG]

Well the era of the big aussie family car really is at the crossroads.........they really are becoming very impractical for all but country living and driving.

In suburbia we're faced with ever smaller parking spaces at schools , shopping centres , office blocks and city spaces. Most suburban back streets are riddled with roundabouts , traffic islands and speed humps , most new housing estates have roads that are barely 3 metres wide , they do consume more fuel and are harder to park.............the odds are really stacking up against the LARGE family car.

Medium sized cars like the Mazda 6 , Subaru Liberty and AURION and Camry are inheriting this market as they seem to be a better fit for most people. Not everyone needs to lug around 4 people and a boot full of suitcases 24/7...........

There are also better alternative choices nowadays with most manufactureres making some great MID to SMALL sized cars. Most of them look better , are more economical , have better day to day driving dynamics for our crappy narrow roads and in some cases can be cheaper to buy when similarly specced..........

[BlackLS]

In the UK a family car is a Golf/Focus/Astra.

[dave289]

I hate the media.for example.If they mention in the paper today that petrol will go up another ten cents a litre,then the servos whack it up another ten or more the next day cause people are then expecting it,but when they announce that oil prices have come down it takes two weeks for any price reduction if any.Its not like the servos just got a delivery of fuel last night but they whack it up straight away.If the media would shut the phuc up, this would not happen.

As far as bigger cars go eg 6 or 8 cylinders, the reality is, costs of everything are going up and something has to be sacrificed.you cant bring down interest rates or the price of fuel but you can change cars to save some money(especialy family type that are really struggling and these are the people that have always driven the family six sedan or wagon),so unfortunatly the bigger cars are suffering because of this.

[mustang70]

you dont need the media to tell you about high fuel priced, go and buy some and it becomes pretty obvious

[prydey]

gee this thread is starting to prove my point more than i thought. so many people think its all doom and gloom for the large car segment when in reality car sales are not really slowing at all. look at the combined sales of all large aussie cars 5 years ago (the big 4) and compare them with today and you will find they are not too much different. when you consider the other options available as well that aren't small cars like the territory and kluger and captiva etc which all steal sales from the sedans but are still not small cars, its evident that people are not heading to the small car market in there droves like the media will have you believe.

the v8 market is still very strong also.

the article also refers to resale being a lot worse than a few years ago but like i showed in the OP using one example, thats not entirely accurate either.

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by prydey

gee this thread is starting to prove my point more than i thought. so many people think its all doom and gloom for the large car segment when in reality car sales are not really slowing at all. look at the combined sales of all large aussie cars 5 years ago (the big 4) and compare them with today and you will find they are not too much different. when you consider the other options available as well that aren't small cars like the territory and kluger and captiva etc which all steal sales from the sedans but are still not small cars, its evident that people are not heading to the small car market in there droves like the media will have you believe.

the v8 market is still very strong also.

the article also refers to resale being a lot worse than a few years ago but like i showed in the OP using one example, thats not entirely accurate either.

I agree 100%

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by prydey

the article also refers to resale being a lot worse than a few years ago but like i showed in the OP using one example, thats not entirely accurate either.

Resale values of Falcon's & Commodore's into the used car market, bought as new cars is atrocious. That is what the article is trying to say. The article is about the relevance of the local manufacturers and their locally made products.

It is not the media that is killing the two cars above, it's competition and the huge selection of new cars available to the new cars buyer these days.

The largest vehicle segment ATM is the "C" car class (Mazda 3, Corolla, Focus) it is now three times as big as the large cars segment (now 10%). Years ago it was large cars first (40%) and daylight second, that will never happen again.

[StAndArdAU]

in the 08 issue of Wheels there is a small article about the 'viability' of owning a Prius. cant remember exactly as im at work but it basically said that considering the price of a Prius, which is about 13k more than a base model camry, it'll take the average person 18 years to recoup the extra cost spent in purchasing a Prius as compared to a camry. i gather they're trying to point out that that is a lot of petrol. can someone back me up here?!

[Ives]

Originally Posted by Citric GT

The market is being influenced by the media without doubt.

That just shows how gullible the general public is.

[Darkr]

Agreed, my falcon doesn't even use that much more fuel then a four cylinder mid sized car?
Spending money to downgrade to a small car doesn't even make sense.
I laugh so hard at people driving rubbish like the Prius, and to think they consider themselves to be saving the world.

[[Tonko]]

I was a bit annoyed at Drive (the auto "guide" in the Age) when they tested the F6. Saying basically how a performance 6 is a dinosaur in todays world...
Never mind V8's. They're after 6's!

It's definately a 2nd hand buyers market, which is great for me!

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Darkr

Agreed, my falcon doesn't even use that much more fuel then a four cylinder mid sized car?
Spending money to downgrade to a small car doesn't even make sense.
I laugh so hard at people driving rubbish like the Prius, and to think they consider themselves to be saving the world.

So you're positive that in a real world test with 90% suburban driving your Falc would consume the same amount of petrol as a MAZDA 6 or CAMRY 4 cylinder.............

At the moment...........even consuming 4 litres a day ( approx $1.60 per litre ) more equates to $6.40 per day or $38.40 per week based on driving the car 6 days per week @ 100 Klm per day...........that's approx $160 - $180.00 per month MORE depending on fuel price fluctuation.

At that rate, you could run 1.5 Mazda 6's per month for the price of one FALCON !!!!!!!!!!!!!............In a family that needs 2 cars........you're almost running the second car for free per month based on just the savings.................Food for thought...........

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by ESP

So you're positive that in a real world test with 90% suburban driving your Falc would consume the same amount of petrol as a MAZDA 6 or CAMRY 4 cylinder.............

At the moment...........even consuming 4 litres a day ( approx $1.60 per litre ) more equates to $6.40 per day or $38.40 per week based on driving the car 6 days per week @ 100 Klm per day...........that's approx $160 - $180.00 per month MORE depending on fuel price fluctuation.

At that rate, you could run 1.5 Mazda 6's per month for the price of one FALCON !!!!!!!!!!!!!............In a family that needs 2 cars........you're almost running the second car for free per month based on just the savings.................Food for thought...........

While the smaller cars are definitely cheaper to run, for many they are just too small.
I can't get the drivers seat back far enough in my BA wagon to to be really comfortable with my 3yo in a baby seat behind me.

My Mum has the Mazda 6 wagon, we borrowed it on holiday and it was noticeably cheaper to run, but we felt like sardines in a can, had no where near the carrying space in the back, lacked overtaking power compared to the falcon when loaded and it felt like a tin can, i see why they have curtain airbags, when closing the door it felt a quarter the weight of the BA, it needs them.

Whilst i could live with one if i had too, i certainly would not choose to, they are not big enough for a family, a tandem pram would take the cargo are on it's own.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

While the smaller cars are definitely cheaper to run, for many they are just too small.
I can't get the drivers seat back far enough in my BA wagon to to be really comfortable with my 3yo in a baby seat behind me.

My Mum has the Mazda 6 wagon, we borrowed it on holiday and it was noticeably cheaper to run, but we felt like sardines in a can, had no where near the carrying space in the back, lacked overtaking power compared to the falcon when loaded and it felt like a tin can, i see why they have curtain airbags, when closing the door it felt a quarter the weight of the BA, it needs them.

Whilst i could live with one if i had too, i certainly would not choose to, they are not big enough for a family, a tandem pram would take the cargo are on it's own.

Too true...........horses for courses...........although I think you'll find both cars will have the same NCAP rating so don't be fooled by doors that feel "light" to close.........

Sure....if you need to lug around a heap of stuff, the Falc may be your cup of tea......but even then, the CAMRY boot space is quite large........In fact the boot space in the new VW Jetta may even be bigger !!!!!!.....but I think for most people these days, the Mid Sized car is turning out to be a better day to day choice.

Don't get me wrong..........I own a BFGT Falcon and a Mitsu Ralliart modded Verada.........I like BIG cars...........but it is clear to see on our roads that there are more and more Mid to small sized cars making an impact. It's been a little while since the official release of the FG Falcon and I've still really only seen a handful on the road...........Our local FORD Dealer is choccas with them and there are still runout BF Falcs in the yard as well............

I guess the monthly sales figure will tell some of the story.......

[xbgs351]

The media states the bleeding obvious that large Australian made passenger cars suffer greatly from depreciation and somehow the deprcieciation is their fault?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by |||

i think a lot has changed since the EL days. for one smaller cars are so much better than they used to be.

Definitely! We just bought a new small car and... wow they are so much better than the bad old days. Ours has all of the features of the newer bigger local cars... and is smaller and uses a *lot* less fuel. I've got all the safety features found in bigger cars... and it uses less fuel.

Did I say how much less fuel it uses?

The media isn't responsible for the decline: Ford and Holden are responsible for the decline. They failed to react to the market direction and well now they will pay for it, won't they?

Yes the new FG is quite nice but is it practical? Not really. Unless you are a family of fat-*****, you could get by with a smaller vehicle...

I like my Falcon, I like its sure-footedness (primarily a result of being so heavy...) but its just not practical anymore.

The large car market has been in decline among the private sector for a LONG TIME - note that most large vehicle sales are STILL from FLEET BUYERS WHO GET DISCOUNTS.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yes the new FG is quite nice but is it practical? Not really. Unless you are a family of fat-*****, you could get by with a smaller vehicle...

.

Because a car uses more fuel does not make it less practical, it's cheaper to run a small car yes, but more room is actually more practical.

Originally Posted by Hunter

Unless you are a family of fat-*****, you could get by with a smaller vehicle..

Who wants to pay close to 40k for something you "get buy with " ?
So much for smaller cars being practical.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Because a car uses more fuel does not make it less practical, it's cheaper to run yes, but more room is actually more practical.

It has plenty of room for me and my fiancee. Even if we had a couple of kids they'd still fit in the back... again, unless your family resembles a michelin men or are ultra-tall basket ball players, small cars quite adequately sized. If you want a long trip, take a plane, its cheaper these days than driving and you'd still have bugger all room.

Who wants to pay close to 40k for something you "get buy with " ?
So much for smaller cars being practical.

Our car cost just on $25k and we got all the airbag nonsense, traction control, stability control, ebd and all that crap - same sort of kit you'd expect on a new Falcon or Commodore...

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by ESP

So you're positive that in a real world test with 90% suburban driving your Falc would consume the same amount of petrol as a MAZDA 6 or CAMRY 4 cylinder.............

At the moment...........even consuming 4 litres a day ( approx $1.60 per litre ) more equates to $6.40 per day or $38.40 per week based on driving the car 6 days per week @ 100 Klm per day...........that's approx $160 - $180.00 per month MORE depending on fuel price fluctuation.

At that rate, you could run 1.5 Mazda 6's per month for the price of one FALCON !!!!!!!!!!!!!............In a family that needs 2 cars........you're almost running the second car for free per month based on just the savings.................Food for thought...........

Although I do a lot of rural driving, I have averaged 9.3 l/100km in my BF over 45,000km. I can't picture too many small cars getting 5.3 l/100km.

A couple of years back I drove a Hyundai Getz for a week whilst my BA was geting repaired and with my driving style it's fuel economy was no better than the BA and my BF is far more economical than the BA.

[Rodp]

How is the media largely responsible? I'd like to think that we're not a nation of sheep and the driving factor to move to smaller and/or more economical cars is the fact that petrol prices are rising and interest rates are rising.

I don't watch the news or read the paper yet I traded in my XR8 for a V6 based on running costs alone. Simply trading in my XR8 was a nightmare, several Ford dealers refused it as a trade (first time it's ever happened to me in buying ~15 cars) suggesting that "no-one wants V8's anymore, mate"

You just have to look at Russelw's VFacts posting monthly to see that the large car and SUV market is in considerable decline and the small/medium car segment is rising!

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Although I do a lot of rural driving, I have averaged 9.3 l/100km in my BF over 45,000km. I can't picture too many small cars getting 5.3 l/100km.

Try the same vehicle around town where there is actually some traffic and you will cry when you visit the pump. I got sick of how much fuel the Falcon ate - it was fine when I drove mostly on the highway but such large cars in the traffic we get around Brisbane (which granted is relatively average) and it just doesn't make sense...

A couple of years back I drove a Hyundai Getz for a week whilst my BA was geting repaired and with my driving style it's fuel economy was no better than the BA and my BF is far more economical than the BA.

Yeah but it was a Hyundai .

I don't see why Australians have such a problem with the size of their cars - people in the UK, which is arguably about as 'fat' as we are, seem to get by just fine with small cars?

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It has plenty of room for me and my fiancee. Even if we had a couple of kids they'd still fit in the back... again, unless your family resembles a michelin men or are ultra-tall basket ball players, small cars quite adequately sized. If you want a long trip, take a plane, its cheaper these days than driving and you'd still have bugger all room.
.

If you had kids ?
Wait until you do and see how much room you have.

I didn't realise Falcons were aimed at "familys of fat-*****" or "michelin men ".

I thought there aimed at the average Australian (many are over 6ft"2 like me) that don't need to sit on a telephone book to see over the wheel. :

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Although I do a lot of rural driving, I have averaged 9.3 l/100km in my BF over 45,000km. I can't picture too many small cars getting 5.3 l/100km.

A couple of years back I drove a Hyundai Getz for a week whilst my BA was geting repaired and with my driving style it's fuel economy was no better than the BA and my BF is far more economical than the BA.

You're not going to benefit from rural driving if you're going to compare fuel consumption with a smaller car. Stick both cars in the city and you'll see a significant difference - that's where the majority of cars are driven.

Plain city driving, my XR8 was getting ~17l/100km. I've been driving a lot around the city in my new Golf and I'm getting 9.6l/100km. That alone translates into about $80/week less to run my car just on fuel. Colleagues that run a company BA/BF have suggested they're getting anywhere between 12-14l/100km on the same sort of routes.