Let's jump on trucks yet again

[pauljh74]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226047671011

THE family of a bride-to-be killed when her car was hit by a truck on the Monash Freeway has called for sweeping changes to Victoria's major road rules.
Melissa Ryan's family wants a ban on trucks using the right lane on major roads in Victoria.
Sections of the Eastern Freeway and Princes Highway already have this ban in place, but Mel's family wants it expanded to all major roads.
They say if it had been law on the Monash Freeway, their daughter could be alive today.

Mel, 32, was killed on the eve of her birthday on January 31. Her family said a B-double truck with a bullbar crashed into her small sedan from the rear near Oakleigh. Police are investigating the accident and no charges have been laid.
Mel was to have married long-time partner Wayne Belford in October.
Mr Belford was on his way to buy Mel a birthday present when he discovered she had been involved in an accident. She had been driving in the far right lane approaching the Huntingdale Rd on-ramp and police said, for some reason, the car slowed to about 30km/h.
When he arrived at the scene, Mr Belford said he ran towards paramedics praying that it was not his fiancee.
But he said he could see her car crushed against the safety barrier in the centre of the freeway and he recognised her number plate.
"The state of the car was horrific and it is a vision permanently burnt into my mind," Mr Belford said.

"It is every person's nightmare, to be at the scene of a car accident of someone you love, with the sinking feeling getting worse with every step you take."
Mel died in hospital later that day.
Last year, 60 people died on Victorian roads in accidents involving trucks. Mel's family want to see the introduction of "Mel's Law" - tougher road rules to help prevent fatalities involving trucks.

They also suggest:

SPEED limits to differ for cars and trucks on major freeways;

SUPER trucks such as B-doubles and tankers to be allowed to use only the inner lanes on major roads and banned from overtaking on a single-road highway;

MAKING it an offence for a car to take the "safe space" of another vehicle, particularly a truck;

DEDICATED phone lines for motorists to report dangerous driving by truck drivers and cars placing others at risk; and,

INCREASED police powers allowing them to immediately suspend licences for any dangerous driving.

Mel's stepfather, Phil O'Donnell, said if cars could travel 10km/h faster than trucks it would stop tailgating and putting pressure on cars to increase the speed.

Her mother, Liz, said a Mel's Law would see something good come out of the tragedy. Her family said it was one of far too many collisions between trucks and cars that ended in death.
Liz said she was now intimidated by big trucks and tried to avoid them whenever possible.

I don't drive a truck, not looking to take it up, but the knee-jerk reactions to incidents - usually truck drivers and P-platers - is getting ridiculous.

While the result of the accident was tragic, to put the blame on the truck in this case for being in the right lane is unfair.
The driver for whatever reason - mechanical issue perhaps - created a hazard slowing to 30km/h in a 100 zone. If she could have steered the car, she should have headed straight for the emergency lane immediately to her right.

The family follow this up with some suggestions which mostly would have no effect on this case.

*Differing speed limits - causing frustration and more dangerous driving. Car flies past 10km/h faster, cuts off truck. Rinse, repeat.

*Banning trucks from right lanes on freeways and overtaking on single lane roads - enforcing keep left unless overtaking rules for all drivers should be sufficient to address the first point and an outright ban on overtaking on single lane roads is ridiculous. Of course overtaking only when safe is required and if someone is holding a truck up and the truckie pulls out to overtake, slow down and let them pass quickly, then resume. Never speed up as you are being overtaken - car or truck. They are going to drive away from you if you continue at your old speed. Imagine some grey nomad with a caravan doing 80 or less and being stuck behind them for 100km+ because you can't overtake.

*It is already an offense to pull into the safe space of a truck - falls under failing to change lanes only when safe to do so. If that means leaving a 50 metre gap at 100km/h, so be it. Fat chance of it being enforced by Constable Kodak - the main point of traffic enforcement/revenue. It amazes me people do this. If it goes wrong, they risk becoming a hood ornament on the truck. Truckie picks bits of car from bullbar.
There are some truckies that tailgate, I'm sure most of it stems from being repeatedly cut off when you leave a decent gap. I see cars cut off trucks far, far more than I see tailgating trucks.

I recently took a chance taking the right lane to turn right and then needing to turn left a few hundred metres later. I normally take the left lane, but there were 4 semis together in the left lane and I thought I'd miss the lights. After the turn there was a small gap between the slowing truck at 40km/h and cars queued up, but in the end I ended up losing a few minutes "detouring" straight ahead as I couldn't pull it off safely. I appear to be in the minority as I see drivers regularly push in because they feel they MUST make the turn no matter the cost. I was in the wrong lane, so it is my problem if I miss the turn.

[Brazen]

Totally agree with differing speed limits to seperate trucks and cars. One of the worst things for safety is to have trucks and cars travelling at the same speed nose-to-tail, cars should be able to keep a distance by travelling at a faster speed.

Such a sad story, like all road deaths.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Totally agree with differing speed limits to seperate trucks and cars. One of the worst things for safety is to have trucks and cars travelling at the same speed nose-to-tail, cars should be able to keep a distance by travelling at a faster speed.

Such a sad story, like all road deaths.

The truckies that do the right thing often end up driving slower than the limit because cars keep pulling in 2-3 car lengths in front. Cars following will get frustrated and then we'll hear more ridiculous calls for truckies to be banned during peak hour.

[becko27]

You're right on the money pauljh74.
I drive a truck for TNT, not interstate but in the Illawarra region.The things i see every day amaze me. People don't seem to realise trucks cannot stop on a dime. I have lost count the number of near misses i have had and unfortyunately i fear its only a matter of time before i will crunch some car that has left me no room to stop.
Having said this, there are a number of truckies who can only be described as utter lunatics as to the way they drive and tailgate. All you can do is use common sense and hope for the best.

Cheers.

Becko27

[bigkev531]

i think some people who make some of these acusations maybe need to spend a day driving a truck to see how different they are to drive.

[Falcon Coupe]

for some reason, the car slowed to about 30km/h.

That says it all, you can't blame a truck driver faced with meeting a car doing 30 on a freeway.
I have seen a similar close call with an old Lady doing 70kph in the left lane.

[Franco Cozzo]

She was on the phone, in the right lane, had a truck to her left and behind her and believed to have slowed to 30km/h before the incident.

Then they blame truck drivers, all the time I see drivers cutting into trucks braking space they leave for themselves to safely stop, when they turning right from the left hand lane they go on the inside of them etc.

People need to know how to drive around heavy vehicles, unfortunately the license test is just drive around town for 50 minutes and do a low speed maneuver which in my case was a three point turn. Then go back to VicRoads where the tester yells and screams at you in the car then gives you your license.

I like how they emphasis a B-double truck with a bullbar, bullbar or no bullbar a B-double will come out on top regardless.

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Then they blame truck drivers, all the time I see drivers cutting into trucks braking space they leave for themselves to safely stop, when they turning right from the left hand lane they go on the inside of them etc.

As an L plater (80km/h), all the time I see trucks merging in front of me leaving no so called "safe gap". Most times they're indicating back in while still along side me, and leave less than 1 second of room.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Werd.

As an L plater (80km/h), all the time I see trucks merging in front of me leaving no so called "safe gap". Most times they're indicating back in while still along side me, and leave less than 1 second of room.

Why arnt you letting them in when they are indicating?

When they merge into your lane why arnt you slowing down to increase the safe gap?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Werd.

As an L plater (80km/h), all the time I see trucks merging in front of me leaving no so called "safe gap". Most times they're indicating back in while still along side me, and leave less than 1 second of room.

What are you doing on freeways if you can only go 80km/h?

Its not common but being nice and making the lives of other drivers goes a long way, e.g - slowing down/speeding up to let another person merge onto the freeway easier, slowing down to increase the gap.

Theres certainly bad truck drivers, but the amount of bad car drivers is easily 10X that.

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Why arnt you letting them in when they are indicating?

Why arnt you slowing down to increase the safe gap?

Don't be stupid. Slowing down to below 80 would not only **** everyone off behind me, but is even more dangerous than 80 is.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What are you doing on freeways if you can only go 80km/h?

I guess the most obvious answer would be to get driving experience in all conditions.

[BIGJB]

I can't begin to tell you how angry crap like this gets me. I have spent a lot of my life driving for a living
and I can not tell you the amount of times I have had near miss accidents due to the stupidity of other road users.
How on earth this was the truck drivers fault if this silly ***** was doing 30kph I will never know.

I will give you guys the senario of an accident I had a few years back.
I was on the Gold Coast hyway at West Burliegh in the left hand lane (dual carrige way) when I came up behind a
12 pallet pantech doing about 85kph. I looked into my right hand mirror while approching the truck (we were going around a left hand bend).
I flicked on my indicator and once again checked my mirror to make sure some idiot wasn't flying up behind me as i moved into
the right hand lane to overtake the pantech. Next thing I knew there was an almighty bang smashing glass twisting metal and
I had gone from 100kph to 0 in under 30meters.
Some stupid muppet had broken down and left their car parked in the right hand lane against the barrier.
Now I had to fight hammer and tong to clear my name because as the "professional driver" I was automatically
blammed for the incident. I had to prove the amount of hrs I had been on the road that week.
Now the end result for me was fine but the clown who left his car on the side of the road didn't even get a
fine for his stupidity. I am willing to bet if it had been a "professional driver" who had left the car there and an average
road user had hit it then the story would have been different.

[Powdered Toast Man]

What state are you in Werd? I thought L platers weren't speed restricted.

As for states that speed restrict P platers, dont get me started on that stupid rule. And I'm not even a P plater or from a state that has lower limits for P platers.

I'm with Falcon Coupe. A car slowed to 30km/h in the rh lane of a freeway. Somebody arriving up your backside is inevitable.

[g220ba]

Now i may only drive a 14 pallet truck and have done so for about 3 years but somedays i can't begin to fathom the mentality of some drivers (both truck and car). This is a tragic case of someone losing their life and without knowing all the facts i won't pass judgement on either side.

My worst close call was a completely brainless driver that ignored the signs for about 1km indicating both left hand lanes of the geelong freeway exit onto geelong rd while the 3 right lanes merge with the ring road to form the westgate freeway. I was sat in lane 2 (second from the left) with my indicator on to indicate i was exiting, this driver was sat in the left lane and i knew was going to do something stupid with their demeanor so i backed off a bit. We got to the point where we were nearly side by side and this idiot suddenly didn't want to exit, this gave me the fright of my life watching this captiva with no indicator suddenly veer right causing me to swerve massively whilst on the horn. This driver went on with their illegal manouver leaving me to ponder what just happened and what could've happened. It was just lucky i only had a light load on because the truck felt like it was ready to go over.

These sort of things happen day in day out without fail. Again i may only drive a small truck but somedays i go home thinking why i do it. It really makes you appreciate the dangers of road a bit better.

[sudszy]

do we have any more details about how the car was doing 30km/h and was hit by a truck doing 100km/h.

Given that there has been no charges laid by the police it would be correct to assume she cut in front of the truck?, otherwise there is no defence for hitting a vehicle that is in front of you in the lane you are travelling at, no matter what speed it is doing or how fast it stops. Isnt it up to the driver of the following vehicle to maintain a gap by which if the vehicle in front suddenly brakes to a stop that they should be able to avoid them, they are the ones that ought to know the stopping capability of their vehicle.

True, you'd see violations of trucks following too closely to satisfy this criterion all day long, but does that make it right?

Sure for self preservation, drivers being aware of what can happen with a truck up one's clacker is important, but doesnt mean we should be shifting the responsibility from who it clearly lies with.

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

What state are you in Werd? I thought L platers weren't speed restricted.

As for states that speed restrict P platers, dont get me started on that stupid rule. And I'm not even a P plater or from a state that has lower limits for P platers.

I'm with Falcon Coupe. A car slowed to 30km/h in the rh lane of a freeway. Somebody arriving up your backside is inevitable.

Nsw. Red P platers have a 90KM/h limit, and I think it's 100 for greens.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What are you doing on freeways if you can only go 80km/h?

.

Don't blame this guy. It's the governments stupid rules to only allow Learners to drive at 80.

"We will teach you how to drive at 80. But we will let you do 110 for the first time by yourself."
Yeah great logic there.


@OP Some of those 'suggestions' could be done to improve safety, some are already the law, but rarely enforced.
But anyway if you are doing 30 on the freeway, there is a chance a truck may have trouble stopping in time. There is no law that could be enforced to stop that risk. The only thing I can think of is if you have a problem with your car and can only do 30, get the the shoulder as quick as possible.

We don't know the exact reason why the car slowed to 30, so its hard to think of ways a crash could be avoided next time.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by Werd.

Nsw. Red P platers have a 90KM/h limit, and I think it's 100 for greens.

How can a learner learn how to drive properly, merging and blending with traffic etc if they cant even do the speed limit on a freeway.

Nothing against you Werd mate, you're just abiding by the law. It's the stupid lawmakers I dont get!

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

How can a learner learn how to drive properly, merging and blending with traffic etc if they cant even do the speed limit on a freeway.

Nothing against you Werd mate, your just abiding by the law. It's the stupid lawmakers I dont get!

Agree 100%.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Don't blame this guy. It's the governments stupid rules to only allow Learners to drive at 80.

"We will teach you how to drive at 80. But we will let you do 110 for the first time by yourself."
Yeah great logic there..

When I was in P's in Vic, the limit was 80km/h, so perhaps there was merit in that you had a whole year of not going faster than one was allowed to as a learner, but I dont think it stayed like that for long.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by sudszy

do we have any more details about how the car was doing 30km/h and was hit by a truck doing 100km/h.

Given that there has been no charges laid by the police it would be correct to assume she cut in front of the truck?, otherwise there is no defence for hitting a vehicle that is in front of you in the lane you are travelling at, no matter what speed it is doing or how fast it stops. Isnt it up to the driver of the following vehicle to maintain a gap by which if the vehicle in front suddenly brakes to a stop that they should be able to avoid them, they are the ones that ought to know the stopping capability of their vehicle.

True, you'd see violations of trucks following too closely to satisfy this criterion all day long, but does that make it right?

Sure for self preservation, drivers being aware of what can happen with a truck up one's clacker is important, but doesnt mean we should be shifting the responsibility from who it clearly lies with.

i agree with this.... the law is pretty clear isnt it? if you rear end the car in front of you then you were either going too fast or too close, and your in the wrong.

doesnt matter if the person in front jumped on the anchors in the right hand lane of 110 kmh freeway or in a 50 kmh suburban street.

perhaps the guys that were so quick to lump on the l plater for not slowing down to let a truck merge safely should also be asking why the truck didnt slow when they came too close to the victims car, or however a 30kmh car came to be in front of a 100kmh truck.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

When I was in P's in Vic, the limit was 80km/h, so perhaps there was merit in that you had a whole year of not going faster than one was allowed to as a learner, but I dont think it stayed like that for long.

Or we could just teach learners how to drive a car at the speed limit....

[whiteELXR6]

there is only one way they can fix this countries roads and that is by educating people better. Especially when they are getting there licence they have to be taught how to drive around heavy vehicles. Until such time stupid people will continue to cause stupid accidents. Also if the speed limit is 100 for example bloody well do 100 that doesn't mean 95 or 98 or 92 it's a 100 and if you cannot hold the speed consistently then you shouldn't have a licence.

For what it's worth I am a "professional driver".

[Falcon Coupe]

P late speed limits are not the discussion in hand, they're best left for another thread.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Werd.

As an L plater (80km/h), all the time I see trucks merging in front of me leaving no so called "safe gap". Most times they're indicating back in while still along side me, and leave less than 1 second of room.

if a truck indicates to move over - you give them room. it stands to reason that with trucks being so big and having larger blind spots than cars, then they need co-operation from car drivers to merge safely

even in the tightest cases, most truck drivers will not indicate until there is plenty of time for a car to let them in. they will generally give you around 3 seconds to move, and then they are coming over

while i have a heavy rigid license, i have only driven a truck while obtaining that license. however for a very long time, i have had a healthy respect for trucks, because they are so big, need some co-operation from car drivers and they take so long to stop. you need to be aware when they are around and do not do any sudden lane changes unless there is no overlap or you have plenty of room to accelerate ahead without needing to brake at all. hopefully this thread will allow you to learn early about trucks and help you to be a better and safer driver around them. we should give respect to everyone on the road, but trucks need much greater allowances when it comes to sharing the road or stopping

my own personal preference when driving is to never drive 2 abreast in traffic unless it is totally unavoidable. when a truck is around, you should never sit beside it unless overtaking it. if you are caught halfway beside a truck and he hasn't seen you and decides to move over . . . .

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

How can a learner learn how to drive properly, merging and blending with traffic etc if they cant even do the speed limit on a freeway.

Driving for 19 odd years, this is the one that boggles me. Not so much from the point of a L driver or whatever, it's the case of "any" driver who decides that 80kph is a safe speed to merge of any kind, on to a FWY, is an absolute nutcase.

Your defensive driving is putting the ones on the main road at risk of an accident. And at the end of it, you wonder why these people always get caught in accidents.

You wanna drive and get on the FWY, you do what speed is safest to merge. If it takes 110 kph so be it.
The point I make this so much, is the people who do 80kph to enter a FWY, and merge infront of a truck doing 95-100 and they forget there are people stuck behind them who want to merge safely, who are now caught in this 'dance with a truck'.

What ever happened to the people who used to do atleast 90kph on a FWY?

Going to the US (mainly NY) in a few weeks. Now these 80k'ers would not survive there at all. Going to take a vid, just to show how traffic moves there, ya'd be surprised on how the trucks move too (if you don't know how the traffic operates over there).

[rancidpunx]

I hate this sort of thing. I nearly had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago on the highway down to the gold coast. Cruising at 100 in the right most lane when all of a sudden the traffic in front stops. Luckily I had only just checked my mirrors and was able to swerve into the middle lane. There was no way I was pulling a 2ton plus ranger up even with a safe gap. 3 cars up was the cause of the sudden stopping. A learner in the fast lane doing 30 or so in a truck.

Now had there been an accident I would have been in the wrong as the truckie apparently is. The learner would have carried on their merry way oblivious to the carnage and pile up they just caused. I bet the person driving to slowly or swerving in lanes a few cars up from the dead chick also went on their merry way. Either than or the dead girl wanted to get off at the approaching exit and hadnt allowed for her self to be in the correct lane, in which case its her own fault and im sorry but its one less idiot, crap driver on the road.

Theres alot of bad truckies out there but once again the powers that be are looking for a quick fix rather than looking at the shocking driving standard this country displays as a whole.

[Dustin_80]

Originally Posted by BIGJB

I can't begin to tell you how angry crap like this gets me. I have spent a lot of my life driving for a living
and I can not tell you the amount of times I have had near miss accidents due to the stupidity of other road users.
How on earth this was the truck drivers fault if this silly ***** was doing 30kph I will never know.

I will give you guys the senario of an accident I had a few years back.
I was on the Gold Coast hyway at West Burliegh in the left hand lane (dual carrige way) when I came up behind a
12 pallet pantech doing about 85kph. I looked into my right hand mirror while approching the truck (we were going around a left hand bend).
I flicked on my indicator and once again checked my mirror to make sure some idiot wasn't flying up behind me as i moved into
the right hand lane to overtake the pantech. Next thing I knew there was an almighty bang smashing glass twisting metal and
I had gone from 100kph to 0 in under 30meters.
Some stupid muppet had broken down and left their car parked in the right hand lane against the barrier.
Now I had to fight hammer and tong to clear my name because as the "professional driver" I was automatically
blammed for the incident. I had to prove the amount of hrs I had been on the road that week.
Now the end result for me was fine but the clown who left his car on the side of the road didn't even get a
fine for his stupidity. I am willing to bet if it had been a "professional driver" who had left the car there and an average
road user had hit it then the story would have been different.

WTF were you doing 85 km/h for?
The Gold Coast Highway ranges between 50 and 70km/h through and immediately surrounding Burleigh...
You were blamed for the collision and rightfully so because you were at fault.
Every professional driver knows that if they can not see very far in front of themselves they should approach with extreme caution or at least obey the posted speed limit...

[BIGJB]

Originally Posted by Dustin_80

WTF were you doing 85 km/h for?
The Gold Coast Highway ranges between 50 and 70km/h through and immediately surrounding Burleigh...
You were blamed for the collision and rightfully so because you were at fault.
Every professional driver knows that if they can not see very far in front of themselves they should approach with extreme caution or at least obey the posted speed limit...

Sorry ment the pacific hyway at the back (which is 100kph) not the gold coast hyway

[mr smith]

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.