Nissan labels dirty power claims as bull.....

[Jim Goose]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/n...205-1odzz.html

Nissan labels dirty power claims '********'
Barry Park
December 5, 2011

Nissan Australia will manufacture parts for the Leaf electric car.

Senior executive says electric vehicles are not the environmental vandals some claim they are.

Nissan has an answer to anyone who argues that electric cars using coal-fired electricity are not as clean as conventional ones - quite simply, the claim is "********".

That's the assessment of Andy Palmer, the Nissan executive vice-president who is also responsible for the Japanese car maker's electric vehicle roll-out worldwide, in response to a question at the Tokyo motor show challenging the environmental friendliness of battery-powered cars.

Palmer is quick to shoot down the claim that coal-sourced electricity is just as bad for the environment as conventionally fuelled vehicles. "I think it's complete ********," he says.
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"First of all, if you talk about tank-to-tank, the amount of CO2 consumed from creating the electricity to getting it to the car - is it zero emissions? The answer is no, you consume carbon energy in creating the energy, and that's true.

"That is sometimes the argument used, and I agree. But if all of your electricity is created by coal, it's a fact that the CO2 consumed at the level of the electric vehicle is lower than the level of the CO2 emitted by the equivalent gasoline car.

"If you were to do that compared to a hybrid - so instead of a gasoline car you used a hybrid - it's true that if you're on 100 per cent coal a hybrid emits lower CO2 than an electric car.

However, no country in the world is 100 per cent coal-burning for creating its electricity.

"Secondly, if you look across the world as a whole, by far the least emitting means when we talk about creation-to-use, electric cars are the lowest of the CO2 burners."

Palmer says electric cars are also caught up in a "chicken-and-egg discussion", with the car industry long criticised for being a large emitter of CO2.

"To some extent, we're cleaning up our act [with electric cars]," he says.

"The solution in our space, in what we can influence, is the electric car.

Now, what we try to do is we try to talk to governments to say 'how about cleaning up the generation of electricity, how about using more clean, more sustainable energy rather than going with coal-burning'.

"The more they clean up electricity, the more compelling the story is behind the electric car.

"I think it is fair to say that in every case, an electric car emits less CO2 than an internal combustion engine."

However, an Australian study released in 2009 shows Victoria is potentially the worst place in Australia in terms of emissions to own an electric car.

Peter Pudney, a University of South Australia-based researcher working for the AutoCRC, a government-funded co-operative research centre focusing on car-based technology, says Victoria's dependence on brown coal for electricity generation meant that a Mitsubishi i-MiEV battery-powered car would produce the equivalent of 130 grams of carbon dioxide for every kilometre it travelled.

That means it will produce about 25g/km more carbon dioxide emissions than a Toyota Prius hybrid car, and about the same as a small petrol-engined car.

New South Wales, which draws most of its power from cleaner-burning black coal reserves, would generate the equivalent of 106g of carbon dioxide a kilometre - almost the same as the Prius - while Tasmania, which gets almost all its electricity from hydro-electric power, would generate just 13g/km.

Even so, Nissan plans to launch its next electric vehicle within the next few years. It will join Nissan's EV pioneer, the Leaf battery-powered hatchback, which went on sale in Japan last year and is expected to go on sale in Australia some time in 2012.

Palmer says the growing reliance on emissions-free vehicles such as the Leaf will also have their health benefits as more people move to live in cities, concentrating populations.

"By 2050, 70 per cent of the world's population will be living in cities," he says.

"If we look at figures from the World Health Organisation, more and more people are being diagnosed with things like asthma every day.

"Undoubtedly, one of the causes of asthma are pollutants in the air. Now, if the electric car simply moved the polluting source from the city to somewhere else, isn't that a good thing?

"If our kids can grow up without suffering from asthma and other childhood diseases caused by pollution, isn't that by itself a good thing? I think it is.

"It doesn't solve the problem for the other 30 per cent, but let's be clear; the other 30 per cent don't live near power stations."

[Bossxr8]

Was he referring to the story in Wheels.

They based their calculations on how much Co2 is used to charge an electric car, based on the governments provided figures, and they calculated that a full electric vehicle will use a bit more Co2 than a conventional petrol car based on that, especially in Victoria where the coal is dirtiest.

It works in Tassie cause they use a lot more renewable energy.

Hippies can put their hands over their ears and pretend the results aren't true but the numbers don't lie.

This guy from Nissan needs to stop living in denial, just saying its BS doesn't make it so.

[2011G6E]

How about the pollution caused by mining rare earth minerals and metals in remote parts of the world in filthy processes, shipping those materials around the world for processing, then shipping the product to the country that slaps the batteries together, then shipping them to be put in the car, then...and on and on.

As for "most countries have several sources of power not just 100% coal", well the last time I looked, there wasn't a selector switch on my power point asking if I wanted my power from green sources or coal...even the extra some idiots pay for "green" pwoer is a lie...it all comes down the same transmission lines and into your house, so you still get coal fired power whether you hate it or not.

If I wanted an efficient small car I'd get a VW Polo diesel and be done with it...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

How about the pollution caused by mining rare earth minerals and metals in remote parts of the world in filthy processes, shipping those materials around the world for processing, then shipping the product to the country that slaps the batteries together, then shipping them to be put in the car, then...and on and on.

As for "most countries have several sources of power not just 100% coal", well the last time I looked, there wasn't a selector switch on my power point asking if I wanted my power from green sources or coal...even the extra some idiots pay for "green" pwoer is a lie...it all comes down the same transmission lines and into your house, so you still get coal fired power whether you hate it or not.

If I wanted an efficient small car I'd get a VW Polo diesel and be done with it...

Rare earth metals aren't used in batteries, they are used in small high powered electric motors
and contrary to popular belief, rare earth metals aren't rare, it's just that the fields haven't been developed
too much outside of China....

But having said that, i agree with a lot of what's being said, I believe there's a lot more
to be gained by having super efficient petrol, LPG or diesel engines, possibly backed up by
passive hybrid systems that involve regenerative braking with super capacitors, not batteries..