VFACTS Nov- Territory overtakes Falcon!

[russellw]

The first set of graphical stats are uploaded into the Tech portal now.

Cheers
Russ

[jpd80]

Hmm, I wonder if FG stocks drying up sent buyers into Mondeos,
the 632 figure was a significant lift over the previous month.
Are those discount Falcons walking all over Mondeo's market?

Strange that every month when Falcon doesn't seem to perform so well,
the import Fords seem to shine through and pick up the sales...

[Romulus]

I'll chalk up one sale for a TX RWD diesel last month and chalk up one sale for a Titanium AWD for this month

If Ford were to release the Falcon (or at least the ute) with the Territory V6 engine it would be on a winner. The petrol simply cannot match the diesel for fuel economy, I think the EB4 in the Falcon would not match the V6 diesel in a Falcon for economy.

SUV's are becoming the preferred vehicle of choice for families. Sedan's were in favour a decade plus ago but I attribute that to lack of alternatives. You either had a sedan or wagon to choose from. Now with a myriad of manufacturers selling SUV vehicles large size sedans will continue to decline in sales.

I believe Territory sales (and SUV's) are eating into Falcon sales. Perhaps Ford realise this too and are releasing more SUV models. Perhaps that's not all such a bad thing provided Ford can convert lost Falcon sales into increased Territory sales.

[jpd80]

Territory sales are currently commanding near full recommended retail Price which is more preferable
to Ford than Falcons at the run out price. When you look at the jump in Territory and Mondeo sales,
it pretty obvious that's where Falcon's lost sales went last month but even though Falcon
sales tanked, Ford still sold more vehicles last month than they did in November last year.

This is why I think Ford is unconcerned, the product mix is clearly pretty good at the moment
and with a few good SUVs coming our whay next year, I'm predicting sales will get a lot better.
Better sales = more money to avertise which = more sales as the cycle spirals up and up..

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Hmm, I wonder if FG stocks drying up sent buyers into Mondeos,
the 632 figure was a significant lift over the previous month.
Are those discount Falcons walking all over Mondeo's market?

Strange that every month when Falcon doesn't seem to perform so well,
the import Fords seem to shine through and pick up the sales...

JP the previous months Mondeo sales were the aberration for this year. Mondeo has been very regularly 500-600 this year.

But, you might be onto that runout prices of the Falcon the previous month affecting sales Mondeo and with those stocks drying up, Mondeo bounced back.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

I'll chalk up one sale for a TX RWD diesel last month and chalk up one sale for a Titanium AWD for this month

If Ford were to release the Falcon (or at least the ute) with the Territory V6 engine it would be on a winner. The petrol simply cannot match the diesel for fuel economy, I think the EB4 in the Falcon would not match the V6 diesel in a Falcon for economy.

SUV's are becoming the preferred vehicle of choice for families. Sedan's were in favour a decade plus ago but I attribute that to lack of alternatives. You either had a sedan or wagon to choose from. Now with a myriad of manufacturers selling SUV vehicles large size sedans will continue to decline in sales.

I believe Territory sales (and SUV's) are eating into Falcon sales. Perhaps Ford realise this too and are releasing more SUV models. Perhaps that's not all such a bad thing provided Ford can convert lost Falcon sales into increased Territory sales.

Firstly, congrats on the two Aussie purchases.

Secondly, agree wholeheartedly about diesel into the Ute (particularly) but also the sedan. It would be a game-changer.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

I'll chalk up one sale for a TX RWD diesel last month and chalk up one sale for a Titanium AWD for this month

Congratulations and well done supporting the locals, I hope all is well and very pleased with both new acquisitions.

If Ford were to release the Falcon (or at least the ute) with the Territory V6 engine it would be on a winner. The petrol simply cannot match the diesel for fuel economy, I think the EB4 in the Falcon would not match the V6 diesel in a Falcon for economy.

Maybe not but the entry price will be less, the weight is less and people
get four cylinder registration which means something in a few states.
Baby steps, establish a beach head for technology and see what the market wants..

Big question is whether we will see cross pollination of engine types,
- Diesel Falcon sedan and Ute?
- Ecoboost RWD Territory ( EB is available in FWD Explorer)

The concern I have is that:
- Ford has only so much development cash and resources
- More products are good but add complexity to assembly line
- The take rate of the above has to justify their development.

With rising fuel costs, the above additions may be viable but at the moment,
FoA has a lot of products on its plate and more coming next year, exciting times....
Increased sales breed more income which allows more advertising and more products,
if Ford can stick to it knitting and make current locals and new import sales work
then they will most certainly be in the black......

SUV's are becoming the preferred vehicle of choice for families. Sedan's were in favour a decade plus ago but I attribute that to lack of alternatives. You either had a sedan or wagon to choose from. Now with a myriad of manufacturers selling SUV vehicles large size sedans will continue to decline in sales.

The majority of sedan sales in Australia remains firmly entrenched with petrol,
Ford has every right to pursue that target audience with Ecoboost just as they
have every right to pursue diesel sales in Territory.
By adding Ecoboost to the Falcon, I think Ford have made the 21st century Cortina
and it will be interesting to see the interaction between Mondeo and EB Falcon sales...

I believe Territory sales (and SUV's) are eating into Falcon sales. Perhaps Ford realise this too and are releasing more SUV models. Perhaps that's not all such a bad thing provided Ford can convert lost Falcon sales into increased Territory sales.

I think that Territory diesel was the long awaited perfect combination, and allows the Territory
to take it's rightful place at the top of sales. equally, a refreshed falcon full of new features
that offers impressive fuel economy in petrol and low running cost LPG has to be a winner
with retail and fleet buyers respectively.

[prydey]

diesel territory is doing well because its in a market segment surrounded by diesel products.

there is zero evidence to suggest putting a diesel in a falcon body would have the same effect. not to mention that its not as simple as just 'sticking it in there'!!

there are virtually no diesels competing in the large car segment. sure, ford might be a pioneer and have it pay off, but if it flops, those development dollars are gone forever. sure, its a risk v reward thing, and i think ford are right at the moment.

[Joe5619]

One thing I noticed of carsales.com.au is there is only 450 new falcons on there. I could swear the last time I went there (about 6 months ago) there was close to 2,000.. Very nice turn around.. However, worried about January’s numbers when the plant will be closed for x-mas/ new years for 3 or so weeks..

[jpd80]

The aerial view of Broadmeadows on nearmaps.com.au from 17th November shows very little product
but at the same time, Holden's Elizabeth plant looks to be about two thirds full...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

but at the same time, Holden's Elizabeth plant looks to be about two thirds full...

maybe they build stock allowing for the xmas/new year shutdown?

[Gobes32]

Logic suggests that Christmas would be a quiet time for car sales, no point buying a new car if in two weeks it is last years model.

I also am of the opinion that Falcon does not need diesel, but it just keeps getting mentioned enough to put a seed of doubt in the back of my mind.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Logic suggests that Christmas would be a quiet time for car sales, no point buying a new car if in two weeks it is last years model.

I also am of the opinion that Falcon does not need diesel, but it just keeps getting mentioned enough to put a seed of doubt in the back of my mind.

You know, Ford has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to choices and possibilities,
contrast that with Holden where you have a choice of slug V6, OK V6 and pushrod V8.
They are not in the same decade let alone the same page.....

[TMC]

Ford have to advertise the EcoLPi Falcon HARD so people actually know about it. People equate big cars with big fuel bills. But if people could have big car comfort with Prius economy I think some people would stay in the big car segment and not migrate to a Corolla.

Consistent smart advertising that pitches large car comfort and drivability with small fuel bills will turn heads, but it has to be consistent.

They need an advert much like what they have on Youtube where they put X dollars of the fuel into the tank around the circle track with a Falcon EcoLPi, Holden Commodore, and a Corolla and run them until they stop. Then they should have another one much like the diesel Territory advert where that woman who works for Ford can drive 1000kms to see all her friends, but have it based on dollars rather than a tank full. Or have an advert where they drive it from Sydney to Perth for whatever it costs.

People are leaving the large car market either for an SUV or a small car. Territory is mopping up the SUV migration, efforts should be made to keep people in economical Falcons and not go to a Corolla.

My 2 cents.

[jpd80]

I'm now of the opinion that EcoLPI is for fleet and Ford is reserving Ecoboost for retail.
An 8 litre/100 km Falcon that runs on simple, straight forward petrol with very little charge
will have a lot of impact with retail buyers.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm now of the opinion that EcoLPI is for fleet and Ford is reserving Ecoboost for retail.
An 8 litre/100 km Falcon that runs on simple, straight forward petrol with very little charge
will have a lot of impact with retail buyers.

For some reason I thought "Ecoboost" was diesel. Just took a look on the web and Ecoboost looks great. Ecoboost with LPi would be one hell of a combination. The V6 looks gutsy. Is there an I6 Ecoboost on the cards?

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by TMC

For some reason I thought "Ecoboost" was diesel. Just took a look on the web and Ecoboost looks great. Ecoboost with LPi would be one hell of a combination. The V6 looks gutsy. Is there an I6 Ecoboost on the cards?

No, but there's a V6 Ecoboost.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by TMC

For some reason I thought "Ecoboost" was diesel. Just took a look on the web and Ecoboost looks great. Ecoboost with LPi would be one hell of a combination. The V6 looks gutsy. Is there an I6 Ecoboost on the cards?

Something you might be interested in is Ford developing the 2.7 V6 called "Nano", it is expected
to be sold as a 2.7 DI and NA unit as a replacement for the 2.5 I-4 and as an Ecoboost version
with around 250 Kw and 490 nm of torque and wide ranging applications.

Being smaller that the current 3.5/3.7 V6, it would fit in Falcon without massive changes.....

[TMC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Something you might be interested in is Ford developing the 2.7 V6 called "Nano", it is expected
to be sold as a 2.7 DI and NA unit as a replacement for the 2.5 I-4 and as an Ecoboost version
with around 250 Kw and 490 nm of torque and wide ranging applications.

Being smaller that the current 3.5/3.7 V6, it would fit in Falcon without massive changes.....

What about the Territory? Is that torque in a useful area or at 4900 rpm like the 3L Commodore DI V6?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm now of the opinion that EcoLPI is for fleet and Ford is reserving Ecoboost for retail.

The problem is ecoboost is gonna have a bad perception (like EcoLPi). For private sales they will need to have them at the dealership for people to sample. Otherwise it will be avoided as people will think the car will be rubbish (we saw enough of this sorta crap on here before it was even released).

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by TMC

What about the Territory? Is that torque in a useful area or at 4900 rpm like the 3L Commodore DI V6?

Ecoboost torque is normally available from 1,600-5,000 rpm.....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The problem is ecoboost is gonna have a bad perception (like EcoLPi). For private sales they will need to have them at the dealership for people to sample. Otherwise it will be avoided as people will think the car will be rubbish (we saw enough of this sorta crap on here before it was even released).

Oddly, the pre launch lead up for Ecoboost Falcon and Holden Omega are complete opposites.
Omega's 3.0 SIDI was heralded with much fanfare and enthusiasm until buyers actually experienced it first hand....
Falcon Ecoboost will be greeted with skepticism but once people try it, they will see that it is an amazing achievement.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Oddly, the Ecoboost Falcon and Omega Holdens are complete opposites.
Omega's 3.0 SIDI was heralded with much fanfare and enthusiasm until buyers actually experienced it first hand....
Falcon Ecoboost will be greeted with skepticism but once people try it, they will see that it is an amazing achievement.

One thing the Ecoboost might have up its sleeve is that people may wanna take it for a test drive (so they can tell everyone how crap it will be). With this some might be surprised and it could generate private sales (or at least a better perception) when people can have a large car with excellent fuel economy.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by TMC

Ford have to advertise the EcoLPi Falcon HARD so people actually know about it.

Do anyone other than Holden and Ford offer LPG?

Buyers simply arent going to even look at it, no matter how well its advertised... you're never going to change the mind of someone who's convinced economy equals four cylinder or diesel.

People are leaving the large car market either for an SUV or a small car. Territory is mopping up the SUV migration, efforts should be made to keep people in economical Falcons and not go to a Corolla.

And this is what Ecoboost should address.

Ford and Holden are no longer market leaders. They're not in a position to set a trend, they need to follow it. The trend is turbo 4's. BMW and Merc are dropping, or have all but dropped 6's from their lineup....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

One thing the Ecoboost might have up its sleeve is that people may wanna take it for a test drive (so they can tell everyone how crap it will be). With this some might be surprised and it could generate private sales (or at least a better perception) when people can have a large car with excellent fuel economy.

Visions of skeptical Omega owners curious to know what all the fuss is about....
After one test drive, the seek a trade in price to avoid driving their own car home...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Visions of skeptical Omega owners curious to know what all the fuss is about....
After one test drive, the seek a trade in price to avoid driving their own car home...

You never know it might actually seal a sale in when they do drive the 3L home.

[TMC]

I can't believe people who think LPG is a crap fuel, or that Ecoboost must be crap because it comes from Ford. Holden could release a bucket of bolts that is just pure crap and Car Advice would praise it. What's wrong with people. If the figures for Ecoboost are true then it's awesome. Ford HAVE to sell it with correct marketing. Unfortunately Ford do make some great cars but their marketing is just basic at best. Ford should have a marketing team who can sell ice to eskimoes. Holden must have.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ecoboost torque is normally available from 1,600-5,000 rpm.....

Well that is awesome. Hopefully Ford will SELL it , not just expect people to know what it all technically means.

Basically people are stupid. They will stick to wrongly preconceived ideas unless it's beaten out of them by unrelenting advertising.

Anyone for a Coke. It rots your stomach but hey... it's Coke. The real thing. Your life is totally meaningless without a Coke.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by TMC

Anyone for a Coke. It rots your stomach but hey... it's Coke. The real thing. Your life is totally meaningless without a Coke.

Actually it does more than that:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?i...1#.TuLQp1aareo

Can of osteoporosis anyone?

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by TMC

Ford have to advertise the EcoLPi Falcon HARD so people actually know about it.

FULL PAGE add in todays Hearld Sun about the benifts of and the award winning EcoLpi Falcon. They are starting to push it a bit.