Standing Up For Enthusiats!!

[Bunyip04]

I have been given permission to try this topic for a 2nd time,
it wasn't even up long enough for me to see the replys from
the last one, so keep this b/s free, i don't understand how anyone
from our forum could have anything against this campaign to begin
with, so if you don't like it, keep your response civil.

For the love of all things we love and drive,
if you haven't already backed this campaign
check it out, finally we have a voice for us
ENTHUSIATS, the more numbers, the better
chance we have of someone with some sense
to give us a fair go..

http://www.gruntfiles.com/index.php/campaign

https://www.facebook.com/campbell.ne...e#!/gruntfiles

[xisled]

My whole problem with these guys is that they do not read the purposed legislation. I went through there site and Facebook post and what they are saying is not correct. I read the legislation and it says the person must be found guilty to have the car taken, only way to be found guilty is court.

Basically what they are saying is the police can just take your car without court, which is incorrect.

Here is the link for the legislation.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/Bi...RMVIOLAB12.pdf

Part about car being impounded starts around page 18.

[trick_xd]

But yet here in VIC all they have to do is HEAR your car squeal the tires and they can impound so maybe they are just talking in General ?

[Bunyip04]

I appreciate your well put response xisled, i'm glad you've pointed that out because i was unaware. As trick xd has asked, it's also a general across the country stepping stone as well as them lobying in qld, its the same here in the NT, the police can straight up impound your car if they deem the offence warrants it, as far as we know, because i know a friend thats happened too.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by trick_xd

But yet here in VIC all they have to do is HEAR your car squeal the tires and they can impound so maybe they are just talking in General ?

That is not true. I have been through being impounded and court cases, the police needs to prove there case, they also have to see you, or you need to admit to the offence. There is also a heap of other things the cop needs to do to have the car impounded. I am in Victoria.

Also on the grunt files Facebook page, a heap of people who have no idea comment. I was just reading about how cops are not engineers or mechanic and should not be given defects out. People don't relise that a mechanic has the final day about the defect not the cop. The cop only suspects the defect and the owner needs to get it checked and ticked off and given the ok.

Also one thing that not many people know, if you are found not guilty at court and the police have impounded your car here in Vic, you can sue the police force.

My car was on film doing burnouts police tried to charge me, but they told the person who took the video they could not do anything because there was no face and they could not prove what date it happened. They also said if they did charge me and I was found not guilty and had impounded my car, I could sue them. Before anyone says anything I was not driving.

[BHDOGS]

whats this facts needed in a court of law you mean i cant just go around pulling old ladys over in my security job and searching there purses for stolen goods i need to have witnessed the act and waited till they leave the store haha theres so many arm chair lawyers out there it boggles the mind what people think is possible by the authority's an excellent post xisled keep it up!

[tankclare]

I think the main thing Keith is trying to push with the campaign is to stop all of us car people being labelled hoons by the general public and media. He is also fighting for fairer laws regarding vehicle modifications and has been doing this for a few years now. The campaign is nothing new and I think the Grunt Files team and Keith should be applauded for not being afraid to question the politics behind the hoon laws.

Grunt Files has taken on a sensible way to show the haters that not all car enthusiasts are hoons by doing interviews and getting around to as many shows as possible to show everyone just how good the car community is. Making up the bumper stickers etc is a good move as well I think. Keith and Wendy get around to many car shows including ours and are always more then happy to have a good chat and a laugh. The community needs more people like them.

I support them and their fight for our car freedom.

[xisled]

I agree some of what they are doing is great and I understand that part, but the other half is uneducated garbage. Unfortunately a lot of people who support this are just jumping on the bandwagon and wanting to talk garbage about the police. I can see a big group of people who know what they are talking about, and that is great also.

1 problem I see is there is a lot of stories people are posting on there Facebook page. A friend of a friend of a friend said his track car got defected on a trailer. To me it just makes the whole reason they doing this becoming a big joke.

[NAK302]

that's it!! bring on the revolution. where do i sign?

[flappist]

Moved to the Pub as it is a car thread

[RedHotGT]

I'm an enthusiast with a loud performance car... and I've NEVER been hassled by Police at all.

In fact, I think I've only ever been pulled over once for a random breath test (and perhaps a bit of a look) which was all fine with me.

I've done some 'spirited' driving in the past, and yeah i've driven above the speed limit, and i've taken off at the lights plenty of times with my foot buried deep into the floor... I've even broken traction around the place occasionally too....

Does this 'tarnish' me with the Hoon brush? I wouldn't think so.

I would think that enthusiasts get quite a fair go as it is. In Victoria - we've had the Club Registration rules and conditions revised - to a point where a lot more people are signing up to clubs and enjoying the fact that they can use their car much more - at a much cheaper cost.

If you're driving or living in an area where you know there are Police that are hard on hoons - then drive to the conditions - in the same way you would if the roads were wet, or dark, or a loose surface.

If you're being an idiot on the road - and you get pulled over - too bad.... How many P Platers out there got a Canary or Two (or more) until they were off their Ps? I'll bet it wasn't because they were driving sensibly within the speed limit - and I'll bet it was because they brought attention to themselves in some way or another.

Personally I think the whole lobby is a waste of time - and changing your own driving style will ensure you don't get 'heat' from the cops....

[poppa smurf]

we had an "enthusiast" blow both tyres off the rims after a long standing burnout, just up the road from us last night, filled the street with acrid smoke.....he knicked off with both wheels on the rims......dont know if he will be back to pick up his tyres, they are still all over the road

dont know if the cops got him......I really hope so!

[mik]

The problem is while most enthusiast's generally have a bit of common sense, it only takes a very small amount of dipsticks to do something majorly foolish to make the whole lot look bad,.

Also being a large group and very visual on the roads we are an easy target for those with an agenda to villanize enthusiast's .

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by loftie

I'm an enthusiast with a loud performance car... and I've NEVER been hassled by Police at all.

In fact, I think I've only ever been pulled over once for a random breath test (and perhaps a bit of a look) which was all fine with me.

I've done some 'spirited' driving in the past, and yeah i've driven above the speed limit, and i've taken off at the lights plenty of times with my foot buried deep into the floor... I've even broken traction around the place occasionally too....

Does this 'tarnish' me with the Hoon brush? I wouldn't think so.

I would think that enthusiasts get quite a fair go as it is. In Victoria - we've had the Club Registration rules and conditions revised - to a point where a lot more people are signing up to clubs and enjoying the fact that they can use their car much more - at a much cheaper cost.

If you're driving or living in an area where you know there are Police that are hard on hoons - then drive to the conditions - in the same way you would if the roads were wet, or dark, or a loose surface.

If you're being an idiot on the road - and you get pulled over - too bad.... How many P Platers out there got a Canary or Two (or more) until they were off their Ps? I'll bet it wasn't because they were driving sensibly within the speed limit - and I'll bet it was because they brought attention to themselves in some way or another.

Personally I think the whole lobby is a waste of time - and changing your own driving style will ensure you don't get 'heat' from the cops....

I'm the same mate, i've never been picked up for anything of the like,
but i have a friend (a real person, and a genuine friend) that's picked on all the time in a particular area of town, and i know for a FACT he's not
an idiot type that ppl label hoons. E.g, he got told to remove his blue park
bulbs after having them in for a month or they'd issue him with a defect
notice, i've had mine in for a year, never even had it mentioned, i have
blue number plate lights, which i've been informed by the mvr that i could
get stung for it, and take it on the chin if i do, which is fair enough. To
me it's clearly a personal thing in some cases which is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
If it matters, he has a FG XR6T ute in ego, so it doesn't stand out that much.

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

we had an "enthusiast" blow both tyres off the rims after a long standing burnout, just up the road from us last night, filled the street with acrid smoke.....he knicked off with both wheels on the rims......dont know if he will be back to pick up his tyres, they are still all over the road

dont know if the cops got him......I really hope so!

WRONG... Clearly a hoon... The whole point is to distinguish us from them!

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by mik

Also being a large group and very visual on the roads we are an easy target for those with an agenda to villanize enthusiast's .

Exactly, it's like shooting fish in a barrel for police. Too juicy a target to ignore.

We do all the work for them basically and they know we can afford to and will pay the fines to get our pride and joy back on the road so they can hit us again.

[poppa smurf]

ah! to distinguish a "hoon" from an "enthusiast".....the ultimate question...

I say "judge thee by thine actions"

but this will be another "circular" thread as have been all the rest!

[XBROO]

Well if you all just owned smart cars or camrys, you wouldn't get pulled up.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

ah! to distinguish a "hoon" from an "enthusiast".....the ultimate question...

I say "judge thee by thine actions"

but this will be another "circular" thread as have been all the rest!

Which is fair enough, and i totaly agree with judging by the actions
but the idea of this thread is a means of a way
for those INTERSESTD to show their support, and those that don't,
i appreciate their valid point of view, but don't want to hear anything
that's just rubbish, tbh.

[Bunyip04]

Dare i say it, but...
The way i see it, a hoon is a person that'll speed thru suburban areas, drive recklessly,
doesn't care or think anything of dropping a skid in populated areas and so forth,
an enthusiast will have the common sense (if they so feel the need) to take said
similar actions well away from populated areas, e.g an empty desolote industrial area
with little infastructure well late at night, or out on some back country road intersection
of a similar time as mentioned.
I've once had a police superintendant tell me that there is such a thing as sensibly stupid, and it's true...

[lilmattie]

Poppa - I would say the actions of the aforementioned are pretty clear as to what to label them.

I can see what you're saying though. Anyone who enjoys cars could be labelled an enthusiast. Likewise, anyone who behaves irresponsibly whilst driving a vehicle could also be labelled a hoon.

So now we have the 'enthusiast hoon' which is much harder to distinguish from the other 'enthusiasts'.. I'm not so sure that we can easily distinguish between us and them which is why everyone gets stuck with the stigma.

I think trying to distinguish between responsible car owners and people who behave irresponsibly is a good idea. But I think the best good would be done within our own forums and workplaces by actively condemning those types of actions on public roads.

If you feel the 'urge' - take it to the skid pan or the drags.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by lilmattie

Poppa - I would say the actions of the aforementioned are pretty clear as to what to label them.

I can see what you're saying though. Anyone who enjoys cars could be labelled an enthusiast. Likewise, anyone who behaves irresponsibly whilst driving a vehicle could also be labelled a hoon.

So now we have the 'enthusiast hoon' which is much harder to distinguish from the other 'enthusiasts'.. I'm not so sure that we can easily distinguish between us and them which is why everyone gets stuck with the stigma.

I think trying to distinguish between responsible car owners and people who behave irresponsibly is a good idea. But I think the best good would be done within our own forums and workplaces by actively condemning those types of actions on public roads.

If you feel the 'urge' - take it to the skid pan or the drags.

Agreed, but.. Not everywhere has the luxury of said events taking
place more then once a month, for a few months of the year..
Keep in mind, sensibly stupid...

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by lilmattie

Poppa - I would say the actions of the aforementioned are pretty clear as to what to label them.

I can see what you're saying though. Anyone who enjoys cars could be labelled an enthusiast. Likewise, anyone who behaves irresponsibly whilst driving a vehicle could also be labelled a hoon.

So now we have the 'enthusiast hoon' which is much harder to distinguish from the other 'enthusiasts...'. I'm not so sure that we can easily distinguish between us and them which is why everyone gets stuck with the stigma.

exactly right mate......but I do feel for the true enthusiast when the ferals wear the same clothes and drive the same cars......but only the true enthusiast.....

however....actions can quickly sort the wheat from the chaff......get caught....well them's the breaks, dont grizzle

I do not however agree with car crushing.....clamp it yes, take the licence if necessary yes (some just dont learn) but dont crush the car

but everyone knows how I feel about hoons in enthusiast clothing...... so thats all I got to say on the matter

[lilmattie]

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

Agreed, but.. Not everywhere has the luxury of said events taking
place more then once a month, for a few months of the year..
Keep in mind, sensibly stupid...

Semi-agree. I can agree that some places don't have the facilities to always cater for someone who wants to do stuff like that. However, I take the hard nosed approach and say 'don't do it' then.

Its hard to come across even somewhere truly remote enough that you won't be near a house or another bit of property that it won't affect anyone.

However, what happens on private property is different matter.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

exactly right mate......but I do feel for the true enthusiast when the ferals wear the same clothes and drive the same cars......but only the true enthusiast.....

however....actions can quickly sort the wheat from the chaff......get caught....well them's the breaks, dont grizzle

I do not however agree with car crushing.....clamp it yes, take the licence if necessary yes (some just dont learn) but dont crush the car

but everyone knows how I feel about hoons in enthusiast clothing...... so thats all I got to say on the matter

That's the other thing that seems like targeting of a particular group,
with the crushing, and impounding cars, where i live all that applys
with the whole hoon rules, what about repeat drink driving offenders...?

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

I'm the same mate, i've never been picked up for anything of the like,
but i have a friend (a real person, and a genuine friend) that's picked on all the time in a particular area of town, and i know for a FACT he's not
an idiot type that ppl label hoons. E.g, he got told to remove his blue park
bulbs after having them in for a month or they'd issue him with a defect
notice, i've had mine in for a year, never even had it mentioned, i have
blue number plate lights, which i've been informed by the mvr that i could
get stung for it, and take it on the chin if i do, which is fair enough. To
me it's clearly a personal thing in some cases which is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
If it matters, he has a FG XR6T ute in ego, so it doesn't stand out that much.

Maybe your mate hasn't been targeted - maybe you've just been lucky.......................

[poppa smurf]

mate, I dont have the answers.....I dont know if hoons are getting singled out, we had 4 breath testers around the streets last night and more to come over xmas

I heard Hoons going stupid everywhere but not one that I seen being caught so I could argue that the Hoons are not being targeted enough and that drunks are being overly singled out

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by mik

The problem is while most enthusiast's generally have a bit of common sense, it only takes a very small amount of dipsticks to do something majorly foolish to make the whole lot look bad,.

Also being a large group and very visual on the roads we are an easy target for those with an agenda to villanize enthusiast's .

Have to agree.

I have lost my license for what would now be deemed as hooning (This was 10 years ago)

In recent times ive been pulled over a couple of times for something what was my fault, something i can accept and knowingly aware of what may happen, ive never been picked on or harassed by the boys in blue unnecessarily at all.

I dont hate the police and i respect what they do but im sure there are out there with a hidden agenda to harass people in modded cars.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

mate, I dont have the answers.....I dont know if hoons are getting singled out, we had 4 breath testers around the streets last night and more to come over xmas

I heard Hoons going stupid everywhere but not one that I seen being caught so I could argue that the Hoons are not being targeted enough and that drunks are being overly singled out

Sorry mate , it was meant to be a rhetorical question lol.
But here in Darwin the drink driving culture is ridiculous,
and the revenue from "speeding" is outta control to watch,
but that's a different story altogether..

Appreciating the civil reply's btw.

[poppa smurf]

yep I understood the rhetoric.....my answer was also an over view..I do have the answers.....and if I dont....well, I'll make something up!

ah! Darwin......I remember it well.....yes drinking is a big part of life up there.......I still have the stubbie from last visit

I cant get those sunsets out of my head......a beautiful part of Australia.....must get back up there soon......if only someone would move it a bit closer

[noflac52]

In support of enthusiasts in NSW there is a growing movement being driven by the Combined Motor Clubs a body that many car clubs are affiliated with enabling enthusiasts to speak with one voice and a large power base when dealing with politicians and bureaucrats.
This approach is already having an effect here with a conference last Feb to establish an understanding of what both the authorities and enthusiasts require going into the future. There will be another conference in Feb 2013 for ongoing discussion for the years ahead. We are at last getting sensible regulations and guidelines for modified vehicles. This not only covers hotrods and modified street machines but a whole range of vehicles including suvs, four wheel drives, individually constructed vehicles, vintage and historic vehicles.

These are the true enthusiasts and we desperately need to differentiate ourselves from the hoon element that masquerade as enthusiasts, for the survival of our sport / hobby / lifestyle into the future.
The good work mentioned above can easily be undone by this element if we are complacent.

I have seen many posts on this forum alone by the hoon element that supports this stupidity and blame the old people and pollies for the new laws that are introduced and I have tried to let them know that they are the root cause of the harsh laws not anyone else, because if they did not do the burnout thing in suburban streets and roadrace around the suburbs no one would notice their activities ( to put it simply ).

I am a hardcore enthusiast and the modified vehicle scene is where I am happiest but I would no more think of doing a burnout in suburbia than jump off a tall building and fly. They are equally stupid!!!

With this in mind my suggestion is two fold.

I think it would be a good thing at our car shows if we set up a national program and actually had a tent purely for the responsible use of vehicles on the road and publicly denounced any socially unacceptable behaviour with in our sport. In todays world its not so much about what you do its more about what you are seen to be doing.
At the same time we should be promoting our charitable activities more publicly. Blowing our own trumpet so to speak. It would be very interesting to know exactly how much money the car enthusiast community donate to charity each year, and not having national figures is a major oversight on our part to help present our case to authorities as I am sure it would be a very substantial amount.
We need to become more socially acceptable as portrayed by the media and if we push this side of things public opinion can be changed so that they realise that there are two types of people who have a major interest in the automobile. The true enthusiast and the rest who are not affiliated but hangers on who think its kool to look like us but in fact we aren't keen on them either.

Just as a matter of interest some stats;
NSW. speeding and alcohol were the two highest factors attributed to fatal accidents in 2010 making up more than 50%
modified vehicles attributed around .6% in the same year and this is an average amount for most years.
I can't find stats for hooning fatalities anywhere but it would be an interesting one considering the amount of attention it is getting atm.