Xa gt-ho

[castellan]

Ausrtalian muscle car mag has out now the definitive look back at the XA GT
Not bad.
But i would say there was only one XA GT-HO ever made and the other 3 were only XA GT built up for racing and that's all they were.
A lot of bull was made of the phase 4 motor but it was tamer then the P3
All this rubbish about the so called top speed is only mainly down to diff ratio.
Bring it on.

[castellan]

Hear i put them XA GT-HO in capitals.

[pottery beige]

AMC is a mere shadow of its once great self

bottom of budgie cage poo catcher mag

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by castellan

Ausrtalian muscle car mag has out now the definitive look back at the XA GT
Not bad.
But i would say there was only one XA GT-HO ever made and the other 3 were only XA GT built up for racing and that's all they were.
A lot of bull was made of the phase 4 motor but it was tamer then the P3
All this rubbish about the so called top speed is only mainly down to diff ratio.
Bring it on.

Originally Posted by BIONIC MAN

its not a hard choice... 8 cylinders and a blower from factory. tick THAT box!
I didn't think things were so bad that you would have to buy a Holden though?
::taking cover::

Yes the motors were basically the same with the head modification on the early CK617 motors fitted to the HO3s carried over to the HO4s...........if Ford Au modified a standard GT to be raced as a HO and also today recognise that car as a HO it doesn't really matter what your opinion is in the scheme of things.

Cheers Mick

[wozman]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

AMC is a mere shadow of its once great self

bottom of budgie cage poo catcher mag

Whey did they hire Paul gover he is a muppet

[nstg8a]

I'd normally agree on the whole 'there's only one true XA HO, but I also respect the intelligence of others as well, and when you see someone like the Bowden's prepared to invest heavily in the uncomplianced HO's, well I will go with their judgement on this one.

[Pinkbits]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I'd normally agree on the whole 'there's only one true XA HO, but I also respect the intelligence of others as well, and when you see someone like the Bowden's prepared to invest heavily in the uncomplianced HO's, well I will go with their judgement on this one.

You've hit the nail on the head, "uncomplianced".
The only reason the 3 are/were so valuable is they were BUILT by special vehicles for racing to GTHO specs before the program was scrapped.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by HO 3

Yes the motors were basically the same with the head modification on the early CK617 motors fitted to the HO3s carried over to the HO4s...........if Ford Au modified a standard GT to be raced as a HO and also today recognise that car as a HO it doesn't really matter what your opinion is in the scheme of things.

Cheers Mick

It's not my opinion it's a fact the 3 were just GT they came with 12 slots the HO came with mags and a plate GT-HO end of story.

If you were to buy a XW -Y GT-HO the plate tells the story that it is what it is, no one is going to pay big $ for no plate.

And any road the race cars were modded far more than the Phase 4 like panhard rod on one some have 4 bolt mains Phase 4 does not.

And all the hoo ha about the RPO83 it's just a 780 Holley and extractors and the winged sumps well who knows, some have a bigger cam some say maybe dealer fitted to you know etc.

When looking at the Holden LH torana L34 joh blow could not buy them you had to have a cams licence to get them and they came with extras in the boot. so it most likely was just people in the know who bought the RPO83 as well i don't think joh blow turns up and here we go sump exh carb no way !

[anto]

cool story

[BENT_8]

Ahh, its moments like this that remind me of 4Vman.
Damn I wish he would come back, it would be set straight in minutes.

For mine, I believe there is only 1 XA GTHO, because that's what left the factory.
Do the 3 race prepped cars count, most certainly, but only as that, race prepped GT's of a stalled programme.

Would I chose between the two, nope, id gladly have either or both.
Each one of them has a place in Australian automotive folklore.

Im sure the Bowdens would cherish the opportunity to display the compliance XA HO in their museum and I bet 'The Dentist' would love a hot lap of Mt Panorama in the race version.

For us mere mortals its just comforting to know that people recognise the significance that these vehicles play in history and have taken responsibility of maintaining them.
Just be thankful for all.

[castellan]

I have to only gen Phase 5 XB GT-HO Hardtop ?

Now let see i wonder what they would of been like if for real if i had some sway at ford aus.
The last of the 4V engines ended in 1974 i have a 19/11/1974 4V head down as being cast then. so we could of got this engine if it were not for all the histeriour of the so called rocketships 170 mph bull idiots went on with.

It most likely would be an open chamber 4V heads so lower comp maybe a cobra jet engine or HO ? with more comp then our USA boys 7.9:1 that would be easy but the cam would maybe the good old USA 1972-4 HO solid and that with 4 bolt mains ? not bad performer. maybe just maybe we could of had enought to last until the much loved ADR27A in the XC.

The XC 5.8L could of had a bit bigger cam in the Cobra as the yanks could do it with their emission laws. our better leaded fuel with more compression even at 8.9:1 is better than the yanks even if we ran 2V heads and extractors she would poke along better to hose off them holdens and keep the same thing with the XD and the XE could of got aussie 4 bolt mains.

I think the Phase would of ended with the XB then the Cobra with the XC then the ESP with the XD-E or would it be Cobra HO then ESP-HO

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by castellan

It's not my opinion it's a fact the 3 were just GT they came with 12 slots the HO came with mags and a plate GT-HO end of story.

If you were to buy a XW -Y GT-HO the plate tells the story that it is what it is, no one is going to pay big $ for no plate.

And any road the race cars were modded far more than the Phase 4 like panhard rod on one some have 4 bolt mains Phase 4 does not.

And all the hoo ha about the RPO83 it's just a 780 Holley and extractors and the winged sumps well who knows, some have a bigger cam some say maybe dealer fitted to you know etc.

When looking at the Holden LH torana L34 joh blow could not buy them you had to have a cams licence to get them and they came with extras in the boot. so it most likely was just people in the know who bought the RPO83 as well i don't think joh blow turns up and here we go sump exh carb no way !

We'll it is your opinion and not much else..........so your logic means that if a car manufacturer plucks a specific car from a production line then sends it to its in house tuner to be massaged and fitted with a bunch of special homologation parts and then raced as that homologation special it is still in your eyes only the original donor car........this was a fairly common practice back in the day with car manufacturers both here and in the US and today these cars are recognised as the variant they became rather than the original donor car, good luck making this one fly

Cheers Mick

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by castellan

It's not my opinion it's a fact the 3 were just GT they came with 12 slots the HO came with mags and a plate GT-HO end of story.

If you were to buy a XW -Y GT-HO the plate tells the story that it is what it is, no one is going to pay big $ for no plate.

And any road the race cars were modded far more than the Phase 4 like panhard rod on one some have 4 bolt mains Phase 4 does not.

And all the hoo ha about the RPO83 it's just a 780 Holley and extractors and the winged sumps well who knows, some have a bigger cam some say maybe dealer fitted to you know etc.

When looking at the Holden LH torana L34 joh blow could not buy them you had to have a cams licence to get them and they came with extras in the boot. so it most likely was just people in the know who bought the RPO83 as well i don't think joh blow turns up and here we go sump exh carb no way !

Desirability really depends on what you like in a car?

A factory Phase 4 with a little piece of tin that says HO.

Or

A factory race prepped, blue printed, basically hand rebuilt by Ford Special Vehicles GT with factory roll cage etc.




AS for the RPO 83, you obviously have no idea.

The RPO 083 option was a "no cost" option that XA GT buyers were not told about, you just happen to get it as Ford slipped them in under the radar. Pretty well documented. So no, no-one "ordered" an RPO 083.

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Desirability really depends on what you like in a car?

A factory Phase 4 with a little piece of tin that says HO.

Or

A factory race prepped, blue printed, basically hand rebuilt by Ford Special Vehicles GT with factory roll cage etc.




AS for the RPO 83, you obviously have no idea.

The RPO 083 option was a "no cost" option that XA GT buyers were not told about, you just happen to get it as Ford slipped them in under the radar. Pretty well documented. So no, no-one "ordered" an RPO 083.

The factory Phase 4 with the little piece of tin anyday, my absolute dream car.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ahh, its moments like this that remind me of 4Vman.
Damn I wish he would come back, it would be set straight in minutes.

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by bigwil

The factory Phase 4 with the little piece of tin anyday, my absolute dream car.

If I had to choose I'd struggle, but I might go for the green car too...only because of the sunroof...

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

Agree 100% Roy did a brillant job with all the research and tracing all the previous owners on the only plated XAGTHO. So good I bought 5 copies of each issue of street fords that contained the Phase 4.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

I reckon it might look like this if you do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQZ1zGvnhc

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by stefan

i reckon it might look like this if you do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqz1zgvnhc

lol!!!

[Paull]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

Bring back the smiley/rep points and Norm might come back

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Paull

Bring back the smiley/rep points and Norm might come back

And Flappist...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Desirability really depends on what you like in a car?

A factory Phase 4 with a little piece of tin that says HO.

Or

A factory race prepped, blue printed, basically hand rebuilt by Ford Special Vehicles GT with factory roll cage etc.




AS for the RPO 83, you obviously have no idea.

The RPO 083 option was a "no cost" option that XA GT buyers were not told about, you just happen to get it as Ford slipped them in under the radar. Pretty well documented. So no, no-one "ordered" an RPO 083.

Lets say i bought a XA GT back in 1972 and just did my own work to it or any other car say and made it better ? only people who knew what was done was benerficial as to making it a better car would maybe pay the extra for the car when it comes to selling it.
Or we have a genuine XY GT-HO and a mock HO but fact is the mock is the latest tec and a far better car to drive etc. the original is still worth more.

Cars one two and three are race cars not a Phase 4 at all just GT with bits of this and bits of that, not even original.

As for the RPO 83 people did know and some did not and that has been documented. but fact is i could stick a 780 and extractors to a XA GT as well and that don't make it worth the dollars some clowns make out, it's the same thing.

Back in 1972 one could buy a XA GT then get the engine worked to HO spec or more better brakes etc even your local ford dealer could do it for you if you wanted to fork out to do it. so you come into the dealer crying the HO is dead i can't get what i wanted. then a informed dealer informs you patting you on the back we can make you one bro ! it's not that hard to do.

Fact is genune matching number cars is where the bullshit stops.

[FERG_51]

Give me those worthless race cars, they weren't tarted up dealer specials.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by castellan

Lets say i bought a XA GT back in 1972 and just did my own work to it or any other car say and made it better ? only people who knew what was done was benerficial as to making it a better car would maybe pay the extra for the car when it comes to selling it.
Or we have a genuine XY GT-HO and a mock HO but fact is the mock is the latest tec and a far better car to drive etc. the original is still worth more.

Cars one two and three are race cars not a Phase 4 at all just GT with bits of this and bits of that, not even original.

As for the RPO 83 people did know and some did not and that has been documented. but fact is i could stick a 780 and extractors to a XA GT as well and that don't make it worth the dollars some clowns make out, it's the same thing.

Back in 1972 one could buy a XA GT then get the engine worked to HO spec or more better brakes etc even your local ford dealer could do it for you if you wanted to fork out to do it. so you come into the dealer crying the HO is dead i can't get what i wanted. then a informed dealer informs you patting you on the back we can make you one bro ! it's not that hard to do.

Fact is genune matching number cars is where the bullshit stops.

This kind of reminds of when the car in front of me goes around a roundabout a few times before choosing an exit.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by castellan

Lets say i bought a XA GT back in 1972 and just did my own work to it or any other car say and made it better ? only people who knew what was done was benerficial as to making it a better car would maybe pay the extra for the car when it comes to selling it.
Or we have a genuine XY GT-HO and a mock HO but fact is the mock is the latest tec and a far better car to drive etc. the original is still worth more.

Cars one two and three are race cars not a Phase 4 at all just GT with bits of this and bits of that, not even original.

As for the RPO 83 people did know and some did not and that has been documented. but fact is i could stick a 780 and extractors to a XA GT as well and that don't make it worth the dollars some clowns make out, it's the same thing.

Back in 1972 one could buy a XA GT then get the engine worked to HO spec or more better brakes etc even your local ford dealer could do it for you if you wanted to fork out to do it. so you come into the dealer crying the HO is dead i can't get what i wanted. then a informed dealer informs you patting you on the back we can make you one bro ! it's not that hard to do.

Fact is genune matching number cars is where the bullshit stops.

how many genuine matching numbers GTs do you own

[noflac52]

Ford built 4 phase 4 falcons. One was registered 3 weren't end of story!

When you talk about compliance one was complianced for the street 3 were complianced for the track. All the phase falcons were built with the track as their intended use right from the xw. The only reason any HO's were registered was because of homologation rules requiring it at the time.

So when you look at it from the way it actually happened the real HO's are, any that were raced, and the rest were built only to satisfy regulations that were in at the time. The true HO's were the track cars and the street cars were a derivative of them!

If you have a HO that was raced and then later registered they are the holy grail because they cover the whole spectrum of, what is a HO?

RPO83 meant that the vehicle was fitted with some of the surplus parts left over from the phase 4 program. Some cars got very little some cars got the lot. It was a random application to use up the left over bits. Full phase 4 optioned RPO83's have been documented but not recognised as phase 4's.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Ford built 4 phase 4 falcons. One was registered 3 weren't end of story!

When you talk about compliance one was complianced for the street 3 were complianced for the track. All the phase falcons were built with the track as their intended use right from the xw. The only reason any HO's were registered was because of homologation rules requiring it at the time.

So when you look at it from the way it actually happened the real HO's are, any that were raced, and the rest were built only to satisfy regulations that were in at the time. The true HO's were the track cars and the street cars were a derivative of them!

If you have a HO that was raced and then later registered they are the holy grail because they cover the whole spectrum of, what is a HO?

RPO83 meant that the vehicle was fitted with some of the surplus parts left over from the phase 4 program. Some cars got very little some cars got the lot. It was a random application to use up the left over bits. Full phase 4 optioned RPO83's have been documented but not recognised as phase 4's.

This is a grey area, firstly using the XY as an example, if Ford built a handful of XY GTHO's for moffat and Co. and then banged out 290 odd more for the road to make 300 it wouldn't sit well with the purists who swear Ford built 300 XY GTHO's for the road and Moffat and Co. raced a handful off the line, would it.

When you look at what was happening with the XA, we find the factory race cars, being prepped under the same 'factory production' rules as the XY and raced as XA GTHO's but plated as GT's.
Whilst at the same time the very first production XA GTHO was rolling down the line.
This would support the former theory that the race cars were independent of the production batch of genuine cars.
The id plate from Moffats 71 Bathurst winner could tell a story...oops, did I say that out loud.

[HO 3]

I think we are still stuck on that round about........so are you saying for example if a HO3 only had Falcon GT stamped on the compliance plate and there are several and they are recognised by Ford AU as proper HO3s and included in the count that there is a grey area?

Cheers Mick

[noflac52]

It is all pretty straight forward really. The concept of the HO's was to win at Bathurst, and to be able to homologate any car for the series production race that Bathurst was, 300 needed to be built and sold as production cars. Everything else came after that concept so if there were no race cars there would be no HO's at all period!

They are all genuine because they were all built for one reason only. To win Bathurst! The fact that some were selected to race by ford and others weren't is beside the point.

You could buy a HO with a series of options chosen by the purchaser so they were never identical anyway so what's the problem with Ford (who actually built the things** choosing the options that they required for the purpose they built them.

I owned a PH3 with a sunroof ( a genuine one from the 300 ) and if you consider why they were built ( to race ) the lesser car was mine because there is no way it would have raced due to the body flex that would have compromised the handling due to the sunroof. It doesn't make it a less desirable car though.

When you talk about the race cars being different they really weren't. They were just put together to exacting standards and they were tweaked a little within the rules.
The ph3's even had to run the rear stabilizer bars because they were homologated with the bars attached, even though they could run a lap around 1.5 secs quicker without them.

It all seems pretty straight forward to me !

What came first the chicken or the egg? lol!

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by HO 3

I think we are still stuck on that round about........so are you saying for example if a HO3 only had Falcon GT stamped on the compliance plate and there are several and they are recognised by Ford AU as proper HO3s and included in the count that there is a grey area?

Cheers Mick

Well there is.
The XY raced under series production, so too was the XA when under development.
It is accepted that Moffats 71 car was one of the 300 GTHO's produced for homologation. So why could the 72 cars under series production, be plated as GT's yet raced under the guise of GTHO's.
If we accept that they continued racing P2 GTHO's until production of the 300 XY's begun, why didn't they have to wait until some of the plated XA's were available.

Obviously once the plate is affixed at the factory its identity is complete.
The only factory XA GTHO carries a tag which says GTHO, they were in production, why not utilise one.

The 3 XA race cars should never be considered as part of the homologation batch as the calypso car would have been.

Obviously the rules changed and they continued racing the XY under improved production so its irrelevant really.

People on here have said the XA racers were legitimate under the improved production rules, but this change occurred after the XA's had been picked as series production cars.

There may be a perfectly plausible answer, but for me it is a grey area when considered in the context of 'Factory GTHO race cars'

Would it be fair to call a GT with full fruit RPO83 a GTHO even though it doesn't carry the plate.
Is that not the same as a GT plated XY being considered a GTHO as you've mentioned above.