Leadership or dictatorship

KEV EB XR8 · 13-02-2006, 10:05 AM

I just read this article in the paper for "parenting contracts" soon to be amended in parliament

To start, I was bought up very strict and have healthy respect for my parents,and at 14 yo i knew everything, as most of that age do, and made my parents life miserable for worry.
With no lack of belting's, the cane at school, respect for authority was never a question,it was there.

Over time the authority has been slowly taken from parents for reasons that i can see were to help children from abusive,drug related etc parents that struggled themselves more than likely.
In 1st class my eldest daughter came home from school and said (you cant smack me anymore, cause i can tell the teacher and you go to jail) I tried to explain to her the reasons for this as stated above.

To present day the (DOCS) branch of the government has had failure after failure with their hands tied in bureaucratic tape, and offering no relief to teenagers in trouble, but who took the power off parents to act on discipline in the first place (government) ?

To sum this debacle up, now they want parents to be responsible for the teenagers actions with (contracts) and (counseling) and pay for the damage/actions that seems to me that it stemmed from their role in trying to be everybody's parents with dismissing discipline in the first place.

I am not blurting out my personal life on a car forum but i have been in this situation and have been through the wringer and back, hence being able to make comment.

Is anyone else worried about our kids futures into the next century,With too more little ones "i Am".

Casper · 13-02-2006, 10:12 AM

Huge rant written by me.. then deleted as I probably broke a few TOC's.

Kev, I agree with you, strongly. I will take responsibility for my kids actions when the government allow me total responsibility for their upbringing.

2fishingdogs · 13-02-2006, 10:20 AM

If the Government want us to be total responsible thank let is teach our kids respect and apply discipline as required but not absolute floggings with the end of the belt buckle like friends of mine had! Now thats going to far.

347_XR8 · 13-02-2006, 10:30 AM

I couldn't agree more. When i was young i feared my parents, now i respect them. They taught me about respecting authority, what they said went. If i did something wrong then i knew about.
These days ya can't even hold a kids hand without someone getting all up tight. I'm only a young'n at 20, however kids at the age of 12 swearing and carrying on is just not on!
Bring back parental control!

Falcon_Phill · 13-02-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fishingdogs

If the Government want us to be total responsible thank let is teach our kids respect and apply discipline as required but not absolute floggings with the end of the belt buckle like friends of mine had! Now thats going to far.

try getting hit by a jug cord *shudders*

gozza · 13-02-2006, 10:42 AM

bring on dictatorship to thw whole country
freedom of speech enables people to whinge
if people didn't &*^)@ everything up we wouldn't need such restrcited laws
some people can't think for themselves...they should be told what to think

Casper · 13-02-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Phill

try getting hit by a jug cord *shudders*

That just made me wince.. I remember copping it a few times. *shudders*

Casper · 13-02-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozza

bring on dictatorship to thw whole country
freedom of speech enables people to whinge
if people didn't &*^)@ everything up we wouldn't need such restrcited laws
some people can't think for themselves...they should be told what to think

shall I just edit everything you said to reflect what I think you should think? :togo:

gozza · 13-02-2006, 10:52 AM

no...its an extrememe opinion....of course i support freedom of speech...theres just a downside isn't there.....

what do you think i should think?

AnthonyQLD · 13-02-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukey_XF

however kids at the age of 12 swearing and carrying on is just not on!
Bring back parental control!

I cant agree more

13-02-2006, 10:59 AM

I still beat my kids when they do wrong and when i go to jail ,all i hope is that my kids got the best start in life even if it killed mine!!!!

13-02-2006, 11:00 AM

BEAT is probley the wrong word

gozza · 13-02-2006, 11:02 AM

depends on the situation.....i never got smacked from my parents but ive been knocked down by my old man for being disrespectful to words my mum and sister.....you learn after that......the way the world is today your kids would have you in jail....maybe thats what kids these days need.....a good thump

Falcon_Phill · 13-02-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozza

depends on the situation.....i never got smacked from my parents but ive been knocked down by my old man for being disrespectful to words my mum and sister.....you learn after that......the way the world is today your kids would have you in jail....maybe thats what kids these days need.....a good thump

Ive been hit with a belt (and everything else, including bed slats), choked, threatened with a knife, thrown in the pool, starved, burnt and much more. Bloody step parents huh? dunno how its affected me yet. *goes off to bell tower with rifle* Especially since i never did anything bad. I can see how hitting children can be good and bad, some parents dont understand the difference though do they.

Casper · 13-02-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Phill

Ive been hit with a belt (and everything else, including bed slats), choked, threatened with a knife, thrown in the pool, starved, burnt and much more. Bloody step parents huh? dunno how its affected me yet. *goes off to bell tower with rifle* Especially since i never did anything bad. I can see how hitting children can be good and bad, some parents dont understand the difference though do they.

There is a smack and there is abuse. What you stated is abuse.

Physically, I see it as a very simple line. A smack is anything that, if accidently misaimed (through a kid trying to run, duck, whatever) and planted on the childs head/face would have no chance of causeing permenent damage. Obviously fists, bedslats, beltbuckles and the likes are our of the question as all can cause horrendous injuries if hit in the head/face. An open hand or, on the worst, a leather belt, would hurt but leave no permenent injury.

I want to dicipline my kids, not maim them. I would never use a closed fist or weapon on them myself. Nor would anyone be allowed to.

In your case though its a classic example of the DOCS failing once again. I know of a number of cases where the DOCS 'should' be involved (and your situation still exists in plenty of homes) but are too ИИИИweak to take action. Instead they hit easy targets like parents taking pics of their kids on school sports day!

Casper · 13-02-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozza

no...its an extrememe opinion....of course i support freedom of speech...theres just a downside isn't there.....

what do you think i should think?

I think that the downsides of freedom of speech are miniscule compared to the downside of dictatorships. Just ask anyone who lived under Starlin, Hitler, Polpot, Saddam Hussein, and any other dictatorship. Of course with close to 50million people killed last century as a direct influence of dictatorships it might be hard to find one.

Combatting something like the DOCS by bringing in a government dictatorship is like putting out a fire at a TNT factory by spraying it with rocket fuel. In the end there will be nothing left to burn but everyones going to get killed in the process

gozza · 13-02-2006, 11:36 AM

thats gonna happen anyway

brenx · 13-02-2006, 11:46 AM

Not having the ability to punish a child when they have done something wrong or immoral is a pain in the backside. I have my 6yo telling me all the time I can't smack her. Yes, I can stick her in the corner or send her to her room. Not that sending her to her rooms any good. She has all her toys and things in there! I'm trying to nail water (swapped a word) to the damn wall!

If they wanted to stop child abuse? This is not the way of going about it.

I survived the cane, wooden spoon, leather belt etc etc. I'm just fine. I knew if I screwed up? I'd cop it. So, I kept in line till I moved out and was able to live my own life doing what I wanted.

Truth is children who've been smacked are more respectful later in life. I've seen it with my sisters and now I get to experience life with children and no smacks. Hell it is!

Myself and my sister are both above the ages of 25. We respected our parents while being under their roof. Now my sisters under the age of 14 treat my parents like crap. The eldest called the Dept of Human Services (of which we work for anyway). They can see clearly that my sisters due to lack of respect (due to no disipline) are running riot. They constantly have their hand out. Who at under the age of 15 got around $50-100pw pocket money?!?! I sure as hell didn't. I worked for my $.

Todays society is all about raising "BRATS". No discipline = "BRATS".

If I told you what my sisters have been in trouble for and have done due to no disipline. You'd all be in shock. Problem is as they're getting older they're getting worse. I'm expecting to see them in a youth remand centre soon

I'd pay to have that happen. They'd get a real wake up call.

Hardtopxb · 13-02-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

I think that the downsides of freedom of speech are miniscule compared to the downside of dictatorships. Just ask anyone who lived under Starlin, Hitler, Polpot, Saddam Hussein, and any other dictatorship. Of course with close to 50million people killed last century as a direct influence of dictatorships it might be hard to find one.

Combatting something like the DOCS by bringing in a government dictatorship is like putting out a fire at a TNT factory by spraying it with rocket fuel. In the end there will be nothing left to burn but everyones going to get killed in the process

Could not agree more mate. when i was a youngster it was open slather(although most parents did know the limits they could go to)and i grew up respecting other people etc.now parents have virtually no rights to castigate their kids,hence the lack of respect that a lot kids dont have now,there is just no balance afforded parents etc..

shane3 · 13-02-2006, 12:01 PM

I remember the last time the old lady hit me, It was in the side of the head with a fist only 18 months ago, I'm 32 and she is 64 and a drunk!!, when she hit me we were arguing that it was 8.30 am and she was already drunk, (we were men’t to get her an out fit for my wedding), she went to hit me again and I went into self defence mode caught her hand and had her pinned on the bonnet of her car like in the movies untill her husband came out and draged her away with the offer of a drink, I'm 5'6" and 85kg she's 5'5" and all of 60kg
I had a bruised cheek/black eye for 2 weeks and she had burses on her wrist for a month, the worst thing is that she can't remember hitting me or me holding her pinned to the bonnet.
and to this day she still drinks like a fish and causes trouble

13-02-2006, 12:01 PM

the good thing about using your hand is ,if it hurt your hand it hurt them and you know how much

13-02-2006, 12:03 PM

I recon I got good kids cuz I can't remember the last time I had a sore hand

fiery · 13-02-2006, 12:05 PM

I was never hit as a child, but the threat was always there, that kept the fear of misbehaving and getting caught (I mean seriously misbehaving - not petty stuff) and being seriously punished very real.

I have never 'belted' my children, but I have placed a very healthy 'fear' into them both. As a single mum raising boys, I realised I had to keep control or lose them to the 'norms' of others walking around doing drugs, vandalism etc.
My eldest sons mates all love spending time with us, staying over etc.. even though Im really strict but fair as they put it...
These are boys that have been involved in drugs and the parents havent been able to get control... They always behave beautifully with me, to scared not to lol

The government needs to back off out of families lives and let parents place that healthy 'fear' into their children to keep them as close to behaving as possible.

347_XR8 · 13-02-2006, 12:10 PM

I was never hit. i was the good one, but seeing my brother and the "if you do what he does....." that followed scared me from doing anything.
Plus an open hand can not cause that much damage, it may leave something but no real long term damage will come from it unlike a weapon. I'm with you on that Casper

fiery · 13-02-2006, 12:14 PM

I do agree that if you are going to hit children then don't pick up a weapon.. use your hand (not fist)...

I threaten with a plastic spoon (used to be wooden ones - till I realised slapping them down on the bench top snapped them far to easy)... lol

13-02-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

I do agree that if you are going to hit children then don't pick up a weapon.. use your hand (not fist)...

I threaten with a plastic spoon (used to be wooden ones - till I realised slapping them down on the bench top snapped them far to easy)... lol

Love it!

My wife never hits the kids and just like you kerri she tryed to use the old woden spoon, slapped it on the bench for a big bang and scare the kids,but when the spoon breaks the kids just laugh

she has also tryed banging on the kitchen window to make the kids stop ,but yet again she broke the window....LOL

TheSneakiness · 13-02-2006, 12:25 PM

Until people stop being politically correct, all society will be is a bunch of misfits.

Until parents can become parents again, kids will think they can get away with absolutely everything.

brenx · 13-02-2006, 12:27 PM

shane3: The drink is never a good thing. Sounds like she's an alcoholic. Alco's aren't people you want around especially at a wedding. I know my wifes biological father is an alco and so were 2 of my grandparents.

bathurst77 · 13-02-2006, 12:51 PM

I sometimes smack my kids with an open handon the bottom when they go right off and refuse to stop or reason. I always feel like crap after I do it, but I believe a light slap can sometimes help with little ones, once the kids got to about 7 or so they dont seem to need it, you can talk em round. Or invent much more creative punishments..wicked grin..just kidding..

Yet i have a few friends who have never smacked their kids, some of these "kids" are now in their early 20s and have grown up to be fine, straight decent people.

I know as a kid, i copped the leather belt.. a lot... remember welts n bruises on myback and legs for weeks after ...

so.. i dunno... shrugs

-Bathurst 77 "the moody loaner"
now wheres my rifle
"he was always such a nice quiet man up till now, but we did think that was a very big hole he was digging in his back garden, and 3.A.M is a funny time for planting roses"

Casper · 13-02-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

I threaten with a plastic spoon (used to be wooden ones - till I realised slapping them down on the bench top snapped them far to easy)... lol

Hahahha, I did that too. Was at my mums house and the kids were playing up. I grabbed the wooden spoon off the bench (I never do that but it was there) and was half serious, half jokingly warning them that if they didnt settle down they would get it. They were not playing right up so I was kind of smiling and they were listenng but not really "fearful".

Anyhow, at the end I smacked the spoon down on the couch like a "fullstop" to the rant and it just broke into 3 pieces. Everyone looked at it for a sec and then I mum said that spoon was as old as my brother (37 at the time). I cracked up laughing, so did the kids... I tried not to but couldnt help it.

The bloody things break too easy

: