Name and shame

[bazza91]

Originally Posted by Express

My understanding is the manufacturer’s warranty can say whatever it likes as their warranty doesn’t over rule or limit consumer guarantees as set out in Australian Consumer Law.

THIS!!^^^^^^^^^^

That is 100% accurate. Consumer law over rules manufacturers warranty terms and conditions every single time.
If you buy a new TV and it blows up after 18months when your warranty was only 12 months, the tv must still be repaired or replaced due to a term known as "reasonable life expectancy", for a tv its expected that it will last x amount of time, usually something like 3-5 years.

Below is a quote from consumer affairs vic, although note that consumer law is universal across all states for general goods.

A consumer buys a plasma television for $6000. It stops working two years later. The supplier tells the consumer they have no rights to repairs or another remedy as the television was only covered under the manufacturer’s warranty for 12 months.

Even if the consumer had purchased an extended warranty, they may still have the right to a remedy under ACL because a reasonable person would expect a $6000 television to last longer than two years. The consumer has a statutory right to a remedy on the basis that the television is not of acceptable quality and the supplier must provide a remedy free of charge.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

This is the biggest myth in the car industry.

If you service you own car as per the manufacture's schedule & use genuine (or equivalent) parts as required, you will not void your new car warranty.

The problem is that there are a number of "warranties" in play.

First you have your statutory warranty under Australian Trade Practices law. It must be fit for purpose and free of defect and interestingly their is NO limitation on the warranty for defective design (Territory ball-joint owners take note.) The length of the warranty must be reasonable relative to what you paid, and the warranty cannot be voided, unless you use it not for its intended or foreseeable purpose, or take action that is detrimental (failing to change oil or filter for two years, etc.) Even then it is a matter of contribution.

Then you have the express warranty given by the manufacturer. IN essence this is still a warranty, so provided you service and maintain it to the required standard, they cannot revoke the warranty simply because you didn't use a Ford dealership.
In part, the issue is that this Warranty is provided by Ford Australia, not a dealership, hence saying it must be serviced by a ford dealer is really only saying that you must service it to a required standard. Provided that standard is met the warranty holds.
Plus as others have pointed out, if you change your won oil & filter, that has sod all to do with your alternator packing up.

The last one can be separate extended warranties. Even when these are claimed to be extended "factory" warranties. The problem with these is that that can be construed as a contract, and a contract can specify your obligations, such as returning it to XYZ for servicing. The issue then would be whether you have voided the contract, or whether you have "substantially" completed your obligations.

[petered]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The problem is that there are a number of "warranties" in play.

First you have your statutory warranty under Australian Trade Practices law. It must be fit for purpose and free of defect and interestingly their is NO limitation on the warranty for defective design (Territory ball-joint owners take note.) The length of the warranty must be reasonable relative to what you paid, and the warranty cannot be voided, unless you use it not for its intended or foreseeable purpose, or take action that is detrimental (failing to change oil or filter for two years, etc.) Even then it is a matter of contribution.

Then you have the express warranty given by the manufacturer. IN essence this is still a warranty, so provided you service and maintain it to the required standard, they cannot revoke the warranty simply because you didn't use a Ford dealership.
In part, the issue is that this Warranty is provided by Ford Australia, not a dealership, hence saying it must be serviced by a ford dealer is really only saying that you must service it to a required standard. Provided that standard is met the warranty holds.
Plus as others have pointed out, if you change your won oil & filter, that has sod all to do with your alternator packing up.

The last one can be separate extended warranties. Even when these are claimed to be extended "factory" warranties. The problem with these is that that can be construed as a contract, and a contract can specify your obligations, such as returning it to XYZ for servicing. The issue then would be whether you have voided the contract, or whether you have "substantially" completed your obligations.

Crazy Dazz is fundamentally correct. However, with respect to Extended Warranties that specify servicing obligations, care needs to be exercised here as the Warranty Provider CANNOT oblige a consumer to exclusively use Service Agent ABC...... This is STRICTLY PROBIBITED under the Third Line Forcing Provisions of the Australian Consumer and Competition Act. (Sections 47(6) & 47(7) for the legally inquisitive).

The forcing of service from exclusive agents also (technically) contravenes The Act with respect to Exclusive Dealings (Sections 47(2) et al for the legally inquisitive). The principle of avoiding any "lessening of competition" is a fundamental intention of this Act.

So what does this all mean? Check the wording of so called Warranty Agreements. I have seen MANY other instances where individuals and organisations have used their own construct of contracts to seek a "weasel way out" of statutory obligations. They often rely on the ignorance of the consumer in not challenging the terms. Also remember that if a contract contains a clause that is technically illegal, the whole contract may be unenforceable and that the affected party is entitled to damages / relief.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK before signing things that appear to commit you exclusive dealings because they are probably illegal. If in doubt, ASK SOMEONE THAT KNOWS or knows where to obtain informed counsel.

[tapeworm]

I prefer to just learn about my car and service/repair myself as workshops/dealerships just charge an arm and a leg, even if they manage to fix your car from my experience

[bazza91]

Originally Posted by tapeworm

I prefer to just learn about my car and service/repair myself as workshops/dealerships just charge an arm and a leg, even if they manage to fix your car from my experience

I am very much the same. I diagnose an repair everything i can myself, from my car to my washing machine, motorcycles, compressors, 12 power systems.

I also tend to make alot of things, tools battery systems custom parts etc.

You learn a whole lot about things by tinkering, and it saves a massive amount of money, plus it provides a lot of entertainment value.

[Shonky.]

It also makes it very frustrating to watch someone who has no idea on the art of trouble shooting (IE Ford dealerships)

I end up like one of those cockatoos that goes crazy and pulls all its feathers out

[Sprint]

Rhemacs motor Gawler SA

Dropped of my Pinto short block so they could check a spun bearing, tried to tell me my steel crank was crap and wanted 1400 for a new crank, I told them I can buy a cosworth crank for that but nothing was wrong with mine, they charged me $250 just to remove 5 bearing caps and one sump. Later took the motor to the late dave adams from the motor shop and crank was fine, engine made 200 bhp and spun over 8500.

Bendix brakes Gawler.

gave me a quote to rebuild my leaky but still very functional brake master cylinder , dropped of car and once it was appart they wanted twice the money, I came to claim the car which they would not put back together, had to claim the car by towing it away and they rang the cops on me and had the car defected.

two bad scum bags to avoid right there.

[XG_Falcon]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

It also makes it very frustrating to watch someone who has no idea on the art of trouble shooting (IE Ford dealerships)

I end up like one of those cockatoos that goes crazy and pulls all its feathers out

Ironically the cockatoo that lives in our backyard has pulled half her feathers out. Now I know its caused by watching my failworthy attempts at being a greasemonkey

[petered]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

It also makes it very frustrating to watch someone who has no idea on the art of trouble shooting (IE Ford dealerships)

I end up like one of those cockatoos that goes crazy and pulls all its feathers out

“Fault Finding” (or lack thereof) is one of my pet hates. I totally subscribe to shonky's analogy of a cockatoo! There are so many examples of technicians' (?) misdiagnosis, non-diagnosis or just plain sloppy analysis. I have a few experiences but this example will serve to illustrate the point. This is all predicated with the fact that I am NOT a mechanic or engineer; research is my 'sand pit'.

An acquaintance of mine, retired and not brimming with cash, had the Air Bag Light on his immaculate EL Fairmont Ghia permanently on. Took it to a local dealership – told that it was the Air Bag Computer and it would take $800 to $1,000 to fix it. Another (so called) mechanic told him that “it was the car's computer” and he would be up for $500 to $800. The car is over the border (NSW) so needs an annual roadworthy where the glowing light would be a problem. The second mechanic then offered him $300 for the car as “it isn't worth repairing”. I knew, through these Forums, that it was most likely to be the Reversing Light Fuse; this was the case. With some tape around the loom causing the short (and a new fuse) the problem was fixed. This gentleman was unbelievably upset at being potentially ripped off. He is very prominent in the community, especially within the Lawn Bowls 'Mafia'. Through the 'word of mouth' sharing of this experience he knows of 6 new car sales that the Dealership missed out on and probably a few more. The dodgy mechanic is effectively “black listed” in terms of a sizeable part of the community. Through 'word of mouth' I have fixed 6 or so Air Bag Lights in this locale - all were a similar story. Don't mind doing this because the people involved are not “Rockefellers” in terms of cash and I find it unbelievably uncharitable that this element of the community is deemed “exploitable”.

Poor Fault Finding = laziness. There is NO EXCUSE in this age of information availability. If as a non technical person I can readily find solutions then technically qualified (?) people should be able to reach the same conclusions in less time. Perhaps they are lacking in some area …............

The other point here is that the best way to deal with shonky businesses who rip people off is to deny them income. Most communities will adhere to boycotts even if it causes some inconvenience.

The Pub Forum dealing with Outstanding Service is a GREAT initiative. We are inclined to punish the shonky and dodgy BUT should be willing to praise those that deliver great outcomes. This Forum is a powerful medium that will influence buyer behaviour; this Site has intrinsic credibility. Rewarding good service sets standards and delivers the provider sustainable financial benefits for that extra effort.

[Burnout]

There is one rule of thumb some mechanics are using these days when quoting or charging for vehicle repairs.
That is, obtain the cost of parts required from their supplier and then toss on the mark up you charge then double it.
I have struck this quite often lately.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by petered

The Pub Forum dealing with Outstanding Service is a GREAT initiative. We are inclined to punish the shonky and dodgy BUT should be willing to praise those that deliver great outcomes. This Forum is a powerful medium that will influence buyer behaviour; this Site has intrinsic credibility. Rewarding good service sets standards and delivers the provider sustainable financial benefits for that extra effort.

This is especially true on restaurant search engines & forums, where customers leave feedback on their visit to a particular restaurant.

Many are willing to bag a restaurant because they received bad service, had a bad dish or experienced a lack of ambience ?? But what about the silent majority. It seems not many are willing to bother leaving any positive feedback.

A bad restaurant wouldn't survive for very long these days (in Sydney anyway), because the industry is so competitive & the overheads are so high.

So if a restaurant has been in the one place with the same owner/operator for many years, it must be acceptable to the vast majority of their customers. If you read a bad restaurant review, take it in context & remember there are more overly-fussy customers than there are bad restauranteurs.

I'm not in the restaurant industry, but I've run an automotive workshop for 40 years & the parallels between the two are intriguing

Dr Terry

[petered]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

This is especially true on restaurant search engines & forums, where customers leave feedback on their visit to a particular restaurant.

Many are willing to bag a restaurant because they received bad service, had a bad dish or experienced a lack of ambience ?? But what about the silent majority. It seems not many are willing to bother leaving any positive feedback.

A bad restaurant wouldn't survive for very long these days (in Sydney anyway), because the industry is so competitive & the overheads are so high.

So if a restaurant has been in the one place with the same owner/operator for many years, it must be acceptable to the vast majority of their customers. If you read a bad restaurant review, take it in context & remember there are more overly-fussy customers than there are bad restauranteurs.

I'm not in the restaurant industry, but I've run an automotive workshop for 40 years & the parallels between the two are intriguing

Dr Terry

Agree totally with Dr. Terry. I have clients in the Hospitality Industry. They generally ignore my first piece of counsel which is "Do NOT open a Restaurant". They are at the 'whim' of the Chef as to how the meals are designed, prepared and presented and it is ALWAYS a balancing act to meet often unrealistic expectations. Consumers move VERY quickly to punish the slightest flaw with disparaging feedback that seems to have credibility in this Social Media driven age. I can see the parallels with the Automotive Repair Industry in that there are often unrealistic expectations that are unable to be met, no matter how hard you try. Not my 'sand pit' - it is for those blessed with more courage and patience than I have.

What has this to do with "Name and Shame"? Plenty. If you are unsure of the power of Social Media, look at the epic Performanceforums Whirlpool in 2010. This is still cited as an example of the power of modern communication mediums and how quickly an issue can get out of control. I use it with clients as a reference to demonstrate how powerful contemporary Social Media is. However, having said this it is only through social pressure that the 'shonks' of the world are identified and suitably dealt with. But in your pursuit of The Gutless and Godless be careful not to hurt The Righteous and Honorable. There needs to be a balance of positive and negative to create enduring credibility - just "naming & shaming" turns the site into "Whingers Corner". The use of the Forum to promote a measured balance of good and bad is (overall) a positive move.

[FPV0137]

Instead of naming and shaming, start naming the mechanics/service centres you have good experiences with... Well that rules out every ford service department I've ever had to deal with.
The fpv dealer I bought my GT from sold me an extended warranty that has literally covered NOTHING! Even when the fuel pump was failing, they told me it was rust in the tank and gave it back... TWICE!! oh and doff bushes were replaced once then were magically no longer covered with no explanation as to why.
They specifically told me it covered everything, and I asked specifically about the cd stacker and locking actuators. Everyone with a b series know how quick they love falling apart. Got told yes, 3 weeks later the cd stacker breaks and they want $800 not including labour.
I've only ever sent 2 cars to 3 different ford dealerships and every time I cop this or ot gets thrashed for no apparent reason.
As soon as I can afford a low line jack, ill be servicing/repairing my car myself... Not that I have a choice, it's either that or check everything they do to my car when they're done.

[petered]

Originally Posted by Razorwire

Instead of naming and shaming, start naming the mechanics/service centres you have good experiences with... Well that rules out every ford service department I've ever had to deal with.
The fpv dealer I bought my GT from sold me an extended warranty that has literally covered NOTHING! Even when the fuel pump was failing, they told me it was rust in the tank and gave it back... TWICE!! oh and doff bushes were replaced once then were magically no longer covered with no explanation as to why.
They specifically told me it covered everything, and I asked specifically about the cd stacker and locking actuators. Everyone with a b series know how quick they love falling apart. Got told yes, 3 weeks later the cd stacker breaks and they want $800 not including labour.
I've only ever sent 2 cars to 3 different ford dealerships and every time I cop this or ot gets thrashed for no apparent reason.
As soon as I can afford a low line jack, ill be servicing/repairing my car myself... Not that I have a choice, it's either that or check everything they do to my car when they're done.

Carefully check the wording of your Extended Warranty Policy. Sounds suspiciously like a Limited Warranty or Selective Warranty. The exclusions / limitations should have been pointed out / identified when you purchased the policy. If not, and you were led to believe that it was a "Warranty" consistent with the Manufacturers Warranty then you have grounds for claim - False and Misleading Statements. I personally hate these schemes as they are often nothing more than a scam to thieve from an unsuspecting consumer.

[GasoLane]

Aftermarket, or non official FORD extended warranties are the same thing as the paint and upholstery protection that the cute chick with the low cut dress tries to sell you......

Big profit maker for the dealer and not much else.

[castellan]

I informed a stupid mate last night about a engine problem I had.
That a noise came and went, he said get a competent mechanic to spot the problem, I said I did but the noise did not come about at the time, so how the hell would one know what the problem was ya bloody idiot ! not everyone has a magic wand.

It's only due to myself spotting that It had a problem straight up directly that saved me a lot of money.
I have a stethoscope myself and when the noise came again I jumped out directly and it was gone before I got my ears on, but the next time I caught the bugger, but without the stethoscope I would not of had a clue what it was.
Most people would not of picked up on it till it was too late.

Then old wombat mate says you could just get away with putting just another cam in it and a just a load of brain dead stupid childish waffle that ends up just a 3rd rate reco job, I said I don't do stupid dumb hair brain cheap rubbish like that.
She started with piston slap when cold 40,000KM ago, so it's a full reco for me or nothing.

When dealing with people who are just yobbos It makes it hard to point out that they are off with the pixies, as they can't relate and they don't want too.

[last fairlane]

A little off the track
about 4 months ago my 15 year old Grand daughter
bought a small stereo for $75 with 12 month warranty
just one of the sort a kid would have in her bedroom crap sound
to my ears but loud enough for her music
anyway after 3 months it stopped working so she rang me up
I checked the speakers on another stereo and all OK
but nothing worked in the main box it didnt even switch on
I took it back to the dealer I wont name him but hes
the biggest electronic dick in the country
sales person says wheres the reciept 15 year olds dont keep them
so they tell me bad luck I argue they get the manager same answer
does any one know where we stand
when you buy something you expect it have a life of at least a year
short of buying her a new one not sure what to do
thanks John

[petered]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

A little off the track
about 4 months ago my 15 year old Grand daughter
bought a small stereo for $75 with 12 month warranty
just one of the sort a kid would have in her bedroom crap sound
to my ears but loud enough for her music
anyway after 3 months it stopped working so she rang me up
I checked the speakers on another stereo and all OK
but nothing worked in the main box it didnt even switch on
I took it back to the dealer I wont name him but hes
the biggest electronic dick in the country
sales person says wheres the reciept 15 year olds dont keep them
so they tell me bad luck I argue they get the manager same answer
does any one know where we stand
when you buy something you expect it have a life of at least a year
short of buying her a new one not sure what to do
thanks John

You need to supply Proof of Purchase. If you paid for it by Credit Card the Transaction Statement may be sufficient but strictly speaking the Retailer can demand Receipts.

It may be worth writing to them, outlining the above. The Teletubbies that serve for sales staff are hardly able to converse let alone make decisions that are not covered by some formal procedure.

Mental note: Always keep receipts.

[Legit290]

Bad experience?

Let's continue with the restaurant analogy.
You order a Ribeye fillet steak for $40 with chips, salad and hollandaise sauce.
It arrives 5 days later and the price is now $120 and there's no salad

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Rhemacs motor Gawler SA

Dropped of my Pinto short block so they could check a spun bearing, tried to tell me my steel crank was crap and wanted 1400 for a new crank, I told them I can buy a cosworth crank for that but nothing was wrong with mine, they charged me $250 just to remove 5 bearing caps and one sump. Later took the motor to the late dave adams from the motor shop and crank was fine, engine made 200 bhp and spun over 8500.

Bendix brakes Gawler.

gave me a quote to rebuild my leaky but still very functional brake master cylinder , dropped of car and once it was appart they wanted twice the money, I came to claim the car which they would not put back together, had to claim the car by towing it away and they rang the cops on me and had the car defected.

two bad scum bags to avoid right there.

rhemacs do quality work

i faloogles at somes and some what opinion that cannot even pull a few caps off nor rebuild a master cyl themselves

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by petered

You need to supply Proof of Purchase. If you paid for it by Credit Card the Transaction Statement may be sufficient but strictly speaking the Retailer can demand Receipts.

It may be worth writing to them, outlining the above. The Teletubbies that serve for sales staff are hardly able to converse let alone make decisions that are not covered by some formal procedure.

Mental note: Always keep receipts.

That certain retailer use to be able to find the receipt in the system.