Toyota Aurion V6

[Mechan1k]

Is it just me ... or are Toyota just copying Lexus yet again.
They are making it look like it's a brand new model ... bit of a let down really ... I was hoping it would be different from the Lexus.

Looks half decent ... will have to wait and see till it comes out.

http://www.aurionv6.com.au/toyota/aV6/index.jsp

over 190kW of power from base model ... then there's the 3.5L V6 S/C model as well ... just hope it's not FWD .... but I'd say it will be though.

Sorry if it's a repost.

[Ghiadude]

they drivel on about how its full of all this F1 this and f1 that and how its revolutionary... what a load of ИИИИ!

it has 190 kw VVt and smooth and silky big 6. theyve been around since BA was introduced...

[Mechan1k]

When i had a close look ... it looks just like the IS250s now.
I'd prefer the Lexus ... but not the price.
Wonder what the supercharged 3.5L is like ... probably torque-steer city if it's FWD though.

[ClevlndStemer]

Well Toyota is lexus for one thing so why not use the R&D, every other car manufactuer does when they own another one. FFS ford use Volvo & Mazda all the time.
The 3.5 V6 is from the IS350 which in itself is a rocket and it is a brilliant engine, that will leave the old iron block Falcon I6 for dead.
The Aurion is a restyled 2007 Camry. It is essentially what the Vienta used to be. The V6 model of the camry.

Honda say all their stuff is from F1 so what? Ford Aus seem to try link the V8 s/c to the falcon XR8's but they share nothing. I bet you would learn a lot more from F1 than those dinosaur V8 S/C. So really no difference. Goodluck to Toyota. I think some people need to get over themselves and give credit where credit is due.

[Steffo]

Who are they trying to kid? 190kW is nothing special out of 3.5litres. 260+ kW out of 3.5litres (100hp/L+) would be impressive. It's just another V6 FWD family sedan.

I do want to see what the S/C version would be like though.

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Who are they trying to kid? 190kW is nothing special out of 3.5litres. 260+ kW out of 3.5litres (100hp/L+) would be impressive. It's just another V6 FWD family sedan.

FFS it is detuned go and look at the IS350 where the engine is from. You know what is nothing special 190kw from a 4.0 engine.

Obviously they have given themselves room to improve. Just like the GEN3 when it came out. obviosuly 220kw was very detuned.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

FFS it is detuned go and look at the IS350 where the engine is from. You know what is nothing special 190kw from a 4.0 engine.

Obviously they have given themselves room to improve. Just like the GEN3 when it came out. obviosuly 220kw was very detuned.

I never said 190kW from a 4.0 engine was impressive. Ask anyone, Ford makes some of the most inefficient power-per-cubic-capacity engines in the world.

The IS350 is a 224kW 3.5. That's still not too stunning. Especially with the "F1 technology" marketing crap they try to hype up. At least they're not as badly hyped as Honda is yet.

[Mechan1k]

Now what was impressive was the S2000 ... 180-ish kW from a 2.0L 4cyl engine ... that's about the only engine out from a factory that was getting slightly close to F1 technology ... even now though ... I still think Honda could do better.

224kw isn't too bad from a 3.5L engine That is in the Lexus ... and it's probably quite light as well making it very nimble as well.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Now what was impressive was the S2000 ... 180-ish kW from a 2.0L 4cyl engine ... that's about the only engine out from a factory that was getting slightly close to F1 technology ... even now though ... I still think Honda could do better.

224kw isn't too bad from a 3.5L engine That is in the Lexus ... and it's probably quite light as well making it very nimble as well.

176kW from 2.0litres. That's 236hp. 118hp/litre.

Problem with the S2000 engine is that it has absolutley no bottom end. It's all revs. Getting 100hp/L with a good low end power/torque curve is an awesome display of technical prowess IMO... and Ferrari F430 has one of the best engines ever at that...

4.3 V8
360kW (482hp) @ 8500rpm
465Nm @ 5250rpm - with 80% available from 2500rpm up.

482hp and 4.3 V8 is 112.09hp/litre.

Yes, I've lately become a hp/litre power-per-capacity person... :

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The IS350 is a 224kW 3.5. That's still not too stunning. Especially with the "F1 technology" marketing crap they try to hype up. At least they're not as badly hyped as Honda is yet.

no but i don't see many other 6 cylinders doing it (barring the M3). It still rockets the 1600kg car to the 100km/h in 5.3. For an underpowered car thats not too bad and this is what the Aurion will be sharing its tech with. Hmmmm if only Toyota would get an AWD version.

[gravelrash]

the s/c aurion will be AWD & 250kw

[new2ford]

That link wouldn't open for me Mechan1k but I presume this is the same: http://yahoo.drive.com.au/editorial/...f=2&bg=32&pp=0

The build quality will be good and it will take off well in a straight line but how will it handle ("The Aurion is also expected to boast a healthy list of standard equipment – including a stability control system to help control slides – in an effort to win-over existing Falcon and Commodore buyers" - so they slide then?!) and will it be driven by thousands of cardigan-wearing dozies who drift along in the right hand lane at 20 k below the speed limit? That's the real issue.

[Des]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

no but i don't see many other 6 cylinders doing it (barring the M3). It still rockets the 1600kg car to the 100km/h in 5.3. For an underpowered car thats not too bad and this is what the Aurion will be sharing its tech with. Hmmmm if only Toyota would get an AWD version.

There are a few impressive 6's out there, though the Jap's and Euro's have only just discovered (seemingly) that not everyone thinks in kw's but in usuable torque as well. This is why Aust. built engines haven't always been kw leaders but have been inregards to usuable torque. Though GM-H seem to of gone away slightly with their latest 6's and are more traditional "euro" in their spec.
Toyota must de-tune this 6 as they'll marginalise their biggest client base if they make the basic package to "sporty" in tune. As I've said before, Toyota built middle of the road 'grey' cars that are presumed to have great build quality and re-sale, whether it's true or not. Anyone who doesn't have any major needs from their car apart from reliable A to B driving will always shop these cars for this very reason.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by gravelrash

the s/c aurion will be AWD & 250kw

Where'd you get that from?

[merlin]

"The Aurion is also expected to boast a healthy list of standard equipment – including a stability control system to help control slides – in an effort to win-over existing Falcon and Commodore buyers".

Err Falcon already has DSC.

Interstingly this seems to be not too well known. I was watching Today Tonight the other night (channel flicking) and there was a story on how irresponsible Aussie car manufacturers are for not making DSC. They went on to say that no Falcon or Commie offers it. Well Falcon does, I wanted to ring up and complain about false information, but then that would be their entire show wouldn't it!

[PH47]

It may be hard to pronounce, but the all-new Toyota Aurion was the name of everyone's lips at this year's Melbourne motor show. The Aurion will be built at Toyota's Altona plant and will replace the Avalon locally-built large sedan in Toyota's Australian line-up when it launches in the second half of 2006.

"This is the most significant car in the history of Toyota Australia," Mr Conomos said. "It's styled specifically for Australian tastes: It has style, a strong visual presence, and tonnes of power."

Despite bold plans at Avalon's launch in 2000 to take the fight to the locally-built RWD large cars from Ford and Holden, the front-drive Toyota failed to ignite Australian passions. The Aurion was designed specifically for Australians by Australian Nick Hogios. Toyota Australia CEO John Conomos believes it delivers exactly what Australian large car buyers are looking for. He's also passionate about the 'performance' potential of the car, confirming a supercharged 3.5-litre V6 version for launch under the Sportivo brand in early 2007.

This performance sedan was previewed in the form of the Aurion Future Performance Concept alongside the Aurion sedan on the Toyota stand. Conomos would make no indications on price of the production version more than 12 months away. He said the Aurion-based performance sedan will "be unique in the Toyota world and will take styling cues from Toyota's Formula One car". He would not disclose the power output of the Aurion FPC's supercharged V6 engine, though it would need to be around 240kW to be competitive with Ford's turbo Falcon, and to separate it from the 'base' engine producing in excess of 190kW in naturally aspirated form.

Mr Conomos concedes the car's front wheel drive chassis could be an issue in a country dominated by rear-drive performance sedans. "Certainly, I think it could be an issue, but it's also an opportunity for us. Our job is to convince the Australian public of the merits of the car as a whole."

He also said the Aurion Sportivo would be the first of many for the fledgling performance brand, stating a desire to have "an image leader" for much of the Toyotas passenger car range. Toyota first used the Sportivo moniker on a He would not be drawn on which variants could follow, though Toyota has previously sold Sportivo versions of Corolla and Echo small cars.

Doesn't sound like the "Aurion Sportivo" is going to be AWD to me.

[buickman]

I would still buy a Ford 6 rwd over it. I doubt it would be able to take on the turbo version of the ford 6. If only they made the turbo a option on the F/mont or ghia.

[PH47]

Maybe this'll motivate Ford to finally make a boosted V8? ;)

I can only hope.

[outback_ute]

Steffo very high specific outputs are very nice but for a family car the significant extra cost for the engine is a factor, also don't forget those 100+hp/L engines won't be running on 91ron unleaded either. 190kW from 3.5L is extremely competitive, it matches the competition's power outputs with the smallest capacity engine of the lot.

[UNR8D]

they are tuned to run 91 octaine and produce 190kw in base format, 260kw but FWD is the offering in the performance model, sportivo will share the 190kw 3.5 but have a diffrent tune to suspention/bodykit/interior the S/C will be under a diffrent title altogether.

[merlin]

Putting aside driving preferences for a moment, from a purely engineering viewpoint I can not see a factory FWD having 260kw. It's just too mch power for FWD.

[Fairlane]

Well some of the new Cadillac's are pushing 220kw from the Northstar V8., would i want to drive one proabably not.

Im suprised that so many people had a shot at the 190kw engine output, christ thats more than the just about all 308 V8's and stock 302 wheezers.

[mik]

almost sure it will be fwd had a look at toyotas site in the US they had aurion with different name from memory,had same config as avalon v6 fwd ETC makes about same torque as commie v6, no where near the falcon 6

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Im suprised that so many people had a shot at the 190kw engine output, christ thats more than the just about all 308 V8's and stock 302 wheezers.

I agree, I think some people are a little bit out of touch with reality, your talking about family cars here, not engine performance at any cost.

3.5 190kw is pretty efficient for a normal sedan, likewise the old 3.0L Camry engine was delivering 145kw from a 3L.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

FFS it is detuned go and look at the IS350 where the engine is from. You know what is nothing special 190kw from a 4.0 engine.

Obviously they have given themselves room to improve. Just like the GEN3 when it came out. obviosuly 220kw was very detuned.

Ford 6's are tuned for torque. If they wanted to go after the power numbers 210+ would be easily achievable. I guarantee the Falcon 6 will easily out torque the Camry, I mean Aurion V6.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Steffo very high specific outputs are very nice but for a family car the significant extra cost for the engine is a factor, also don't forget those 100+hp/L engines won't be running on 91ron unleaded either. 190kW from 3.5L is extremely competitive, it matches the competition's power outputs with the smallest capacity engine of the lot.

I agree. I've just been fascinated in 100hp/L n/a recently. Heh.

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

no but i don't see many other 6 cylinders doing it (barring the M3).

You serious?

New 911 GT3 (997)... 3.6litres 6cyl n/a, 305kW (409hp) = 113.61hp/litre

Old 911 GT3 (996)... 3.6litres 6cyl n/a, 280kW (375hp) = 104.17hp/litre

2004 TVR Sagaris... 4.0litre inline-six, n/a... 400hp = 100hp/litre

Just to name a few. I could probably find more if I was bothered.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Just to name a few. I could probably find more if I was bothered.

I thought the topic was based roughly on performance of large Australian cars, not wet dreams.

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by Steffo

You serious?

New 911 GT3 (997)... 3.6litres 6cyl n/a, 305kW (409hp) = 113.61hp/litre

Old 911 GT3 (996)... 3.6litres 6cyl n/a, 280kW (375hp) = 104.17hp/litre

2004 TVR Sagaris... 4.0litre inline-six, n/a... 400hp = 100hp/litre

Just to name a few. I could probably find more if I was bothered.

_ Do i need to even bother... : :togo:

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

_ Do i need to even bother... : :togo:

You said you don't see many 6cyls doing 100hp/litre barring the M3. That's obviously not true.

Now, if you worded that a bit differentley, and perhaps said that there aren't many normal production 6cyls doing that (which M3 definitley isn't anyway) then I'd probably agree with you.

[UNR8D]

hmm ok 190 kw driven thru the front wheels will always equal more kw @ the wheels than 190 kw from a rear wheel drive.

their is talk about awd as it is also the basis for the new kluger platform but is unlikely to keep the $$ down in regards to the S/C version, i belive their will be alot of driver aids to protect and reduce the torquesteer assoiated with high performce FWD cars.

and steffo the aurion will cost a quater of some of those cars, so point is the 3.5 is a very good engine especialy in a family vehicle.

all are standard with a 6 speed auto as well so i would imagine performance would be up their with the best of them ;)