Final Commodore LS3 304kw 570nm

[mtbkym01]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Go burn all the classic ford pushrod muscle cars then.... man..

What a stupid thing to say, those classic pushrod engines belong in those classic cars......

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by mtbkym01

What a stupid thing to say, those classic pushrod engines belong in those classic cars......

And pushrod engines belong in some new cars....
Simply because Ford doesn't have pushrod engines now, doesn't make them crap.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by MethodX

And pushrod engines belong in some new cars....
Simply because Ford doesn't have pushrod engines now, doesn't make them crap.

Nor does BMW, Merc, Audi, VW, Toyota and so on a so forth. I think you'll be hard pressed to name another manufacturer using Push rods.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Express

That 5.2L flat plane crank V8 that’s only available in the overseas version of the Mustang sounds like a great piece of gear and the pushrod LS7's when not running the soft factory tunes have been proven to produce the goods as well.

But I’d much rather the 6.2 litre in my AMG as it’s mental enough for the car even in factory tune and when you fit power adders and in particular a Weistec blower which pumps up the output depending on auxiliaries to a starting point of 769 horsepower to over 1000hp then what's not to love.

In my book you can’t beat cubes as a starting point and when you add forced induction they can become insane.

To put AMG mods in perspective for the uninitiated the supercharger that provides the C63 with over 1000hp is available off the shelf for $15,780.99 USD and there are now quite a few AMG’s getting around in Australia and in particular Sydney wearing them under the bonnet.

I'd also never say no to a N/A big cubed pushrod engine, call me old fashion.

I will also add that as much as I love quick cars my days of having to be the quickest ended when one day I decided to changed direction and started throwing my cash at refinement more than straight out horsepower, I believe you end up with better value for your money.

The AMG is not a Push Rod V8. All the performance gains you speak of simply amplify the benefits of this type of engine over a push rod setup!

[Eaturbo]

Have seen a few new VF2 SS red lines around. They really are a nice looking car and look like they go very well. The car looks a generation ahead of the Falcon. The interior is really nice and the new front bumper looks really good with the LS3 badge. Overal a very good package from Holden and really well specced with the Brembos alround. I think Ford struggled to offer anymore kit on the XR8 because of the engine cost. The XR8 engine would be double the price of the LS3 engine and this would be a reason why Ford had no money left for anymore extras like rear Brembos or maybe full electric seats

[nz13boy]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Not sure if you're trying to tell me I'm wrong, but the XR8 simply isn't "only marginally" quicker than the SS. That's nonsense. My daily is a VF SS and I've tested two SII Redlines and will be ordering a '16 to replace my '14. To start with it's hard to tell the difference between a series 1 and 2- and the 5.0 is much stronger than both. Not just screaming up top in a drag race, but everywhere else too. Low down, no comparison. Mid range, no comparison. That's what a blower does. If we're talking real world roads with real world punters, the XR8 is a comprehensively stronger car and it feels that way on the road.

And here's what I find amusing. The higher output LS3s have been getting comprehensively outrun by XR6Ts, F6s and 5.0s for many years. Now that Holden puts a detuned LS3 in an SS, suddenly it's a different engine? Suddenly the SC 5.0 is only marginally quicker? Get out of town. An XR8 is closer to a GTS than it is to an LS3 SS. And I really couldn't care less what's quicker in a straight line, it's an archaic way of comparing cars but if we're going to rate them like that, there's no denying that the XR8 isn't just marginally better. Take magazine numbers with a grain of salt. Half the time they're using a vbox on a back road with no grip, the rest of the time they're spitting nonsense like "the manual is rated 1 tenth quicker to 100, so it's a faster car over 400m". Where do they find these people? I hate to break it to them, but 0-100km/h is not a measure of distance. 0-400m is- and no manual SS will defeat an automatic in that measure. The quality of automotive journalism in this country is appalling and it's a shame that so many folks take them seriously.

I try to be fair and balanced. Every time someone says an XR8 handles as well as an SS, I tell them they're wrong- because they are. Not just lap time garbage, but how the car feels on the road. No comparison. Same goes for this new wave of folks who are convinced the baby LS3 in the new SS will run with an XR8, they're wrong. Yes I'm sure some people would love to take 5.0 owners down a peg. 5.0 owners love talking up how their cars obliterate V8 Holdens yadda yadda. Well like it or not, they do. And this LS3 update hasn't changed that. There is more than 2 tenths between them over 400m, regardless of what you see in a magazine. I encourage folks to put the magazine down and actually drive them.

Now the conspiracy theory- Holden's auto while pretty good in the VF, still isn't perfect. A manual series II Redline, for it's price, is basically a flawless car. It's got the grunt, the chassis, the technology, the brakes, the looks, the sound, etc. If Holden provided an automatic press car, it's no longer a perfect package because while the auto is pretty good, it's still bettered by the 6HP26 in some departments. I think they'd rather give away a few tenths over 400m than risk the reviewer(s) criticising aspects of the drive due to the transmission, bringing down an otherwise almost-flawless car.

Im not trying to "tell" you anything.

What I said was, in reponse to the motor mag article, 0-100 and down the quater, a ford with a blower was shown to be only marginally faster then a holden that dosent have one. You would think the margins would be bigger, a lot bigger, but they werent. Go figure.

As you said, Of course the xr8 has a stronger motor, its faster at this point in rev range, that point etc, and so it should, it has oddles more power, and thats due in no small way to the supercharger.

Dont see the point in gloating about how a cars engine is so good here, there and everywhere when it has a blower and the other one dosent. That would be like me scoffing at the endless number VN commodores and Xr? that seem to want me race me from every set of lights. Whats the point?

What I also said is theres always some excuse rolled out by many on here for why the margins arent higher, or why some journo says there pride and joy isnt as good as the "oposition". Id go and post all the quotes to substantiate my claim but they are so numourous and so obvious theres no point.

To be fair, I couldnt careless which is better. The XR is a ridicously bang for buck bargin.

But if I still owned my 335, Id be be impressed with a Na pushrod coming close to keeping up with me, not making tired old excuses for why I havent given it a good ole smacking.

[Express]

Originally Posted by kypez

I think you'll be hard pressed to name another manufacturer using Push rods.

6.2L Hellcat (now where is the drool icon?)

[Express]

Originally Posted by kypez

The AMG is not a Push Rod V8. All the performance gains you speak of simply amplify the benefits of this type of engine over a push rod setup!

My comment about the 6.2L AMG along with my argument is you can’t beat cubes as a starting point.

I’m not interested in your fixation with OHC versus OHV, none of that matters to me as I own both and know both designs offer good power if you wish to extract it.

I’m happy to take either or both and I’d prefer them to have big displacement to go with it.

The small displacement forced induction boys are getting around with some great engines under the bonnet but some of them aren't willing to accept there are other ways to skin a cat.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Never thought I'd see the day and ford fans speaking like ricers...
Go burn all the classic ford pushrod muscle cars then.... man..

I'm no ricer... but you have to tip your hat to Ford for having the balls to create a 5+ litre flat-plane cranked engine in this day and age. Times are changing and I do love the the big 6.4L hemis and the LS7, but there's nothing special about them. Voodoo is a special engine... one that Ford fans should celebrate and be proud of. It's actually the antithesis of ricer... it still has eight cylinders!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Express

My comment about the 6.2L AMG along with my argument is you can’t beat cubes as a starting point.

Wasn't there a saying in 'Murrica " Thar ain't no substitute for cubic feet"

[blue sleeper]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Wasn't there a saying in 'Murrica " Thar ain't no substitute for cubic feet"

It would be a bit hard to walk with cubic feet, wouldn't it?

[v8ltd]

Originally Posted by kypez

Nor does BMW, Merc, Audi, VW, Toyota and so on a so forth. I think you'll be hard pressed to name another manufacturer using Push rods.

A push rod 6.75 Litre twin turbo V8 still powers the Bentley Mulsanne, makes 1020Nm of torque!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

It would be a bit hard to walk with cubic feet, wouldn't it?

There's always one

[wicksy]

if it has a V8 i dont care what brand it is, i admire all cars, i drive a commodore but bleed blue haha,

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Express

That 5.2L flat plane crank V8 that’s only available in the overseas version of the Mustang sounds like a great piece of gear and the pushrod LS7's when not running the soft factory tunes have been proven to produce the goods as well.

But I’d much rather the 6.2 litre in my AMG as it’s mental enough for the car even in factory tune and when you fit power adders and in particular a Weistec blower which pumps up the output depending on auxiliaries to a starting point of 769 horsepower to over 1000hp then what's not to love.

In my book you can’t beat cubes as a starting point and when you add forced induction they can become insane.

To put AMG mods in perspective for the uninitiated the supercharger that provides the C63 with over 1000hp is available off the shelf for $15,780.99 USD and there are now quite a few AMG’s getting around in Australia and in particular Sydney wearing them under the bonnet.

I'd also never say no to a N/A big cubed pushrod engine, call me old fashion.

I will also add that as much as I love quick cars my days of having to be the quickest ended when one day I decided to changed direction and started throwing my cash at refinement more than straight out horsepower, I believe you end up with better value for your money.

The 6.2L AMG motor is an absolute gem! I love love love that motor! I've only ever driven one, a 2008 C63 AMG and all I can say is... what a car! What an engine, in fact. It does combine the best of both worlds - big cubes AND double overhead cams. You can't really go wrong! They sound amazing, too.

Out of the three "big boys" I'd take the AMG donk over the 6.4 Hemi and the LS7. You need only look at the SLS AMG Black to see why the engine is such a beauty - 464kw and 635nm! But, unfortunately - AMG have gone down the route of the snail... so, V8s which displace similar cubic inches to our straight-six Falcon with a snail attached on each bank seem to be in. That's the times we live in.

Unfortunately, it won't be long before we say that anything fitted with an internal combustion engine has character - just look at the performance figures of a Tesla to see how much of a game changer electricity is!

[johnydep]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7csqnlvQqo

http://www.caradvice.com.au/386952/2...ni-ute-muster/

The last Aussie built ute

[johnydep]

VF v VFII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXfBNLhCFg8

[AD07]

Originally Posted by kypez

No matter which car I've driven, the view for the driver has always been the same, the road ahead.

I can't understand people saying the interior looks dated. Sure it does, then you start driving. I don't keep looking at the interior.

SSV vs XR8 in one report saw the XR8 score better real world dynamics and feel. My personal experience back this up as well.

Only thing you get to enjoy while you drive is the motor and the handling. Who cares if the interior looks a certain way? Does it have Bluetooth, Satnav and a stereo? If yes, we're sorted.

If you want that stuff, enjoy your PlayStation car. But you trumpet your opinions as what makes a complete package, that's rubbish. Each person can want different things. The XR8 to me is the complete package. SSV is a compromise.

Just as every other thread where everyone says the GTS would flog the GTF and I shouldn't even turn up to have a go has seen the GTF win every exchange.

Similar story with the XR8.

Slight contradiction..........

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by AD07

Slight contradiction..........

No contradiction at all.

What he's saying is that even though the interior looks dated once you're driving you don't even notice it.

As for me, I don't think the interior is too dated, I was just having a look over the dash of my R-Spec the other day and consider it actually looked pretty smart, the colours all blend well and has worn well over the 3 years I've had it now. Everything fits together well and there are no squeaks or rattles.

Overall, I quite like the HSV's, especially the engineering that has gone into them but the VF dash is too blingy for my taste and the cloth/suede trims don't wear too well in some examples on the car fleet where I work.

Just my opinion, but the magic is in the driving and every time I take mine out for a blast I never fail to smile.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by GTP534

No contradiction at all.

What he's saying is that even though the interior looks dated once you're driving you don't even notice it.

As for me, I don't think the interior is too dated, I was just having a look over the dash of my R-Spec the other day and consider it actually looked pretty smart, the colours all blend well and has worn well over the 3 years I've had it now. Everything fits together well and there are no squeaks or rattles.

Overall, I quite like the HSV's, especially the engineering that has gone into them but the VF dash is too blingy for my taste and the cloth/suede trims don't wear too well in some examples on the car fleet where I work.

Just my opinion, but the magic is in the driving and every time I take mine out for a blast I never fail to smile.

I agree Jim.
The interior on my GT still looks smart to for me. The FG is laid out well and everything is right where you want it. Nothing is falling apart or rattling which compared to my friends GEN F GTS, the Falcon is far superior. His GTS has cheap leather seats, the badges have fallen off of his mats and the instrument cluster leather wrap is loose. Hop in the back and there is nothing premium at all. The back of the VF is plain jane base model falcon spec other than some leather seating. Its a sea of black plastic. He claims his FG F6 had a far better fit and finish interior and choice of materials. FG to FG2 steps up again.

[arronm]

Yeh and with one eye closed my BA is smart and well laid out compared to my VF redline.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by arronm

Yeh and with one eye closed my BA is smart and well laid out compared to my VF redline.

Let me guess, that must be your red eye which is closed.

That's the beauty of these Forums, we can see things in blue and red and it makes for entertaining reading.

[arronm]

Yeh I have one red eye and one blue eye. Two very different cars, one has nice interior and features but pushrods. The other is plain but has turbo power.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by GTP534

As for me, I don't think the interior is too dated, I was just having a look over the dash of my R-Spec the other day and consider it actually looked pretty smart, the colours all blend well and has worn well over the 3 years I've had it now. Everything fits together well and there are no squeaks or rattles.

Overall, I quite like the HSV's, especially the engineering that has gone into them but the VF dash is too blingy for my taste and the cloth/suede trims don't wear too well in some examples on the car fleet where I work.

.

I have never owned a Falcon before, so I am new to the dash. Driving home tonight after work, looked at dash and console, and thought it looked pretty neat -especially the actual dials pod console behind the steering wheel and the Sync dash. In a way, has a clean functional Germanic utility about it, without the expensive trims.

The central console again is very functional utility, but the small buttons are a little underwhelming/non ergonomic. But essentially german utility functional with no bling-like a budget golf etc-very functional.

The steering wheel is a monstrosity, UGLY, but I must say again very functional and very good grip and very good indents/shape for whipping counterlock when the car kicks viciously. And truth is I never look at the steering wheel when driving, nor the dash dials when unleashing, simply listen to engine and thumping from rear and chimes to tell me whats going on.

The HSV and commodores with suede dash are much nicer materials and the steering wheel is nicer to look at, but I find the dials a little busy.

So for a fresh set of eyes, the FGX is a pretty good place to be.

But I can understand guys who have had an FG11 for a number of years wanting something different.

[Express]

I think the interiors of both cars are ergonomic enough with most of the common functions available via the steering wheel but both are also very guilty of an overabundance of cheapness.

Those chromey, brushed alloyie bits and pieces are so fake looking it highlights the cheapness and the piano black in the Holden is an insult.

I’m a buyer who when spending 60 to 100k on a performance car would be happy to fork out another $500 to option in some half decent trim pieces if the manufacturers would only make them available.

The leather in both cars is average at best.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Express

I think the interiors of both cars are ergonomic enough with most of the common functions available via the steering wheel but both are also very guilty of an overabundance of cheapness.

Those chromey, brushed alloyie bits and pieces are so fake looking it highlights the cheapness and the piano black in the Holden is an insult.

I’m a buyer who when spending 60 to 100k on a performance car would be happy to fork out another $500 to option in some half decent trim pieces if the manufacturers would only make them available.

The leather in both cars is average at best.

Fully agreed- I would be happy to spend extra for really nice trim.

And the leather seats, really a plastic feel-I look forward to getting Doyles to re-upholster the seats in decent leather in time, and actually get a leather armrest between the seats instead of the rubber!!!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by nz13boy

Im not trying to "tell" you anything.

What I said was, in reponse to the motor mag article, 0-100 and down the quater, a ford with a blower was shown to be only marginally faster then a holden that dosent have one. You would think the margins would be bigger, a lot bigger, but they werent. Go figure.

As you said, Of course the xr8 has a stronger motor, its faster at this point in rev range, that point etc, and so it should, it has oddles more power, and thats due in no small way to the supercharger.

Dont see the point in gloating about how a cars engine is so good here, there and everywhere when it has a blower and the other one dosent. That would be like me scoffing at the endless number VN commodores and Xr? that seem to want me race me from every set of lights. Whats the point?


What I also said is theres always some excuse rolled out by many on here for why the margins arent higher, or why some journo says there pride and joy isnt as good as the "oposition". Id go and post all the quotes to substantiate my claim but they are so numourous and so obvious theres no point.

To be fair, I couldnt careless which is better. The XR is a ridicously bang for buck bargin.

But if I still owned my 335, Id be be impressed with a Na pushrod coming close to keeping up with me, not making tired old excuses for why I havent given it a good ole smacking.

well lets call apples for apples, to be fair the holden has a 20 odd percent bigger cube sized engine, so that certainly should whittle down some advantage of the blower on the ford..

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by asagaai

The HSV and commodores with suede dash are much nicer materials and the steering wheel is nicer to look at, but I find the dials a little busy.

Now you mention it the instrument dials are a bit busy, a bit ugly, difficult to read.

I've had my VF for about 9 months now and have barely glanced at them cause I've got the head-up display. Some call it a gimmick, but whatever - it's just awesome. I really do notice how much you have to look away from the road to constantly check your speed in camera-infested Victoria whenever I drive a different car now.

Talking gimmick - one of the head up's pages shows a G-Force meter. Throw it round a corner and it'll display how many G's you pulled - it stays up for a few seconds so you get a chance to read it. In 9 months of ownership I've used it precisely once, but hope to again in the near future...

[tranquilized]

And in regards to the pushrod engine - the Holden V8 really is a physically tiny engine as a result. Less bulk. Less weight over the front wheels = better handling/steering. Competitive power and economy. What was the problem again?

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

And in regards to the pushrod engine - the Holden V8 really is a physically tiny engine as a result. Less bulk. Less weight over the front wheels = better handling/steering. Competitive power and economy. What was the problem again?

And it’s the light weight and compact nature of the LS engines that makes them the preferred option for many engine swaps and kit cars around the world and like the kits designed by Absolute Pace in Australia.

Plus stroking pushrods is now a very popular way to make power in older and newer cars.