Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon? - Page 13

Falc'man · 17-01-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

I aim to please.

That said, I don't see what is factually wrong with stating that not everyone wants a Falcodore, when there is a whole world of other cars, that some people may consider more exciting/stylish/better built/fuel economical/whatever suits there life than the basic big sedan. The blueprint for the Falcadoor type car is the same as it has always been: big, not particularly smart, basic... It just has a few more trinkets... And if it suits you, great.

However, small/medium cars are the embarassing old pie-boxes that they were back in the day... They have moved on, become more desirable, and are reaping the sales rewards.

But, that is all you do here. Keep it up.

drew`SEVNT5 · 17-01-2012, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

But, that is all you do here. Keep it up.

Life would be pretty boring if we all held the same opinion of "rah rah rah, falcons the best, people are idiots for not buying it"

For what it is, Falcon/Territory is a good car, albeit with patchy quality.(One of the reasons I didn't consider one in my latest purchase) Same goes for Commodore... Being a nice car isn't enough if it isn't the sort of vehicle people want... I don't think that is too hard a point to argue?

Also, to clarify my original post which has peoples knickers in a knot, by 'more competent vehicles at competitive prices', read that as more available, as in more available than there ever has been.

I can see how a pessimistic mind may read it another way...

drew`SEVNT5 · 17-01-2012, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

People get cranky when rubbish like this is posted...

with no fact or substance to back it up.

I would have thought declining Falc/Commo sales would be enough fact and/or substance for you...?

Falc'man · 17-01-2012, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

Life would be pretty boring if we all held the same opinion of "rah rah rah, falcons the best, people are idiots for not buying it"

For what it is, Falcon/Territory is a good car, albeit with patchy quality. Same goes for Commodore... Being a nice car isn't enough if it isn't the sort of vehicle people want... I don't think that is too hard a point to argue?

Also, to clarify my original post which has peoples knickers in a knot, by 'more competent vehicles at competitive prices', read that as more available, as in more available than there ever has been.

I can see how a pessimistic mind may read it another way...

What a good time it is to tell us you think it's a good car... I've never seen you do that before but as I expected you'd come around... very predictable.

What you said before was something else and typical of your negative anti-Ford sentiments, hence my reply. As I said, keep it up.

Falc'man · 17-01-2012, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

I would have thought declining Falc/Commo sales would be enough fact and/or substance for you...?

Has it ever occurred to you that it's not what you say, but it's how you say it?
You're quite active in offending most of members on this forum with your usual negative and derogatory tone. If you "aim to please", then why do you need to be so offensive?

drew`SEVNT5 · 17-01-2012, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

What a good time it is to tell us you think it's a good car... I've never seen you do that before but as I expected you'd come around... very predictable.

What you said before was something else and typical of your negative anti-Ford sentiments, hence my reply. As I said, keep it up.

Take off the tinfoil hat mate, we aren't all out to get you.

I have often said the current car is good, if of patchy quality, and possibly not what people want adorning there driveways.

If I was anti-Ford, I wouldn't bother logging in. If I was anti-Ford, I would have never signed up in the first place. Just because I am not looking at the world through a single blue lens, (as per a lot on here)does not make me anti-Ford.

Just like one swallow does not a summer make, a different point of opinion does not a Ford-hater make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Has it ever occurred to you that it's not what you say, but it's how you say it?
You're quite active in offending most of members on this forum with your usual negative and derogatory tone. If you "aim to please", then why do you need to be so offensive?

What, negative and derogatory like
"Right on cue" (one of your own posts)

"Joshua Dowling is that you?"

"People get cranky when rubbish like this is posted...

with no fact or substance to back it up."

Good for the goose, good for the gander... If you can't cop it don't give it, is how this works, surely? The above doesn't bother me, the cut and thrust of vigorous debate is always good fun

Mackspower · 17-01-2012, 07:47 AM

Quote:

"Joshua Dowling is that you?"

. . . love it

Brazen · 17-01-2012, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

hehehe... I do have to laugh at this post... You say fuel consumption is overblown and then go on to use fuel consumption as a positive for a Kia Rio!!!

Petrol consumption is a bonus of the little kia, but to think petrol consumption is the main reason people are trading out of their 40 grand Falcons into small cars is wrong. It's the purchase price and quality of the market that's doing it. Look at Hybrid Camry, it has a Falcon price and small car economy... It's selling half of expectations

Joe5619 · 17-01-2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Petrol consumption is a bonus of the little kia, but to think petrol consumption is the main reason people are trading out of their 40 grand Falcons into small cars is wrong. It's the purchase price and quality of the market that's doing it. Look at Hybrid Camry, it has a Falcon price and small car economy... It's selling half of expectations

Yet, Camry now outsells Falcon!!!

Who would have EVER thought that 10 years ago!!

kevino · 17-01-2012, 09:12 AM

Camry=fleets, Falcon ecoboost 4=fleets.

banarcus · 17-01-2012, 09:57 AM

If Ford had a XR8 or a base sports V8 in its line up, we may well of bought one not too long ago. We couldn't go for the GS as it was out of the price range and Holden were doing a great deal at the time. I guess from a personal perspective, that's what stopped us from buying a Falcon.

Brazen · 17-01-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banarcus

If Ford had a XR8 or a base sports V8 in its line up, we may well of bought one not too long ago. We couldn't go for the GS as it was out of the price range and Holden were doing a great deal at the time. I guess from a personal perspective, that's what stopped us from buying a Falcon.

And that is why focusing on fuel economy might be the downfall of the Falcon. Large cars are only 7% of the market, its a niche. People have other options which probably make better sense than a large sedan.. so what do you do? Go for the heart, make cars people want to buy rather than being a 'smart choice'. If you are trying to go after people's heads, you are never going to succeed with a 1.8 tonne 40 grand car family sedan.

Dr Smith · 17-01-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

i suspect much of that stems from people expecting it to feel like a slush box. given that it isnt one, its never going to feel like one.

if you spend more than 15min behind the wheel, you adjust.

i'm not saying its perfect, but like it or not, its the way of the future.

Sorry have to disagree, the dsg might be touted as a replacement for conventional auto's however the VW DSG isn't the best dsg going around at low speed driving, particulalrly say approaching a round-about, slowing down, finding a gap and releasing the brake pedal,pressing the throttle only to find it hesitates, down-shifts, finally engages a forward or lower forward gear and then finally you take off. After the heart attack you finally can breathe again. There is a software upgrade that has made an improvment but it's not great and I absolutely prefer my T5's A6 to the dsg model everytime. Interestingly in the Toureg and Amarok they are staying with conventional auto's and the Amaroks case an 8 speed as well. Then again what would I know having owned VW's for 14 years and 430,000 km, lol.

b0son · 17-01-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

the VW DSG isn't the best dsg going around at low speed driving, particulalrly say approaching a round-about, slowing down, finding a gap and releasing the brake pedal,pressing the throttle only to find it hesitates, down-shifts, finally engages a forward or lower forward gear and then finally you take off.

cant say my GTI ever behaved like that. well, it would, if you were erratic with the throttle. this could confuse the gearbox as to whether you were going to want to hold a gear, change up, or change down. given the way in which the dsg works (pre-engaging the next gear based on how you're driving and what it thinks you'll need next), this didnt surprise me .... and as I said before, fairly easily adjusted for.

OTOH, our Freelander2's slush box behaves exactly as you describe and I would seriously think twice about buying another auto LR if it displayed this trait. I'd have no hesitation buying another DSG.

Bossxr8 · 17-01-2012, 06:34 PM

If the DSG was so great you wouldn't have to change your driving style to suit it. Thats a sign it isn't doing what its supposed too.

The problem is, other manufacturers DSG's don't have these problems, they work the way they are supposed to. VW's doesn't. Its not the DSG itself that is to blame, but VW's tuning of it.

RHR · 17-01-2012, 06:48 PM

So has anyone seen any FG mkII adds on telly. Im yet to see one.

F6E · 17-01-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The problem is, other manufacturers DSG's don't have these problems, they work the way they are supposed to.

Yep, had a DSG M3 for a day as a loaner. It worked flawlessly at 10 tenths in "manual" mode or just crawling around the 'burbs in "auto". M5's SMGIII was a whore-with-a-sore in comparison.

We have slipped the Euro ZF into our local Fords, why not source a DSG as well ? Then we can all have "flappy paddles"...
Although, the edited ZF shifts as quick as a DSG (thats a POV not a fact, so easy.)

**Polyal** · 17-01-2012, 07:30 PM

I really dont get what the big deal is with DSG...is there less drivetrain loss?

The ZF in the Falcon now is good to last this platform out IMO....there is nothing wrong with it at all. The whole flappy paddle thing is a fad brought on by Jermey Clarkson.

Bossxr8 · 17-01-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6E

Yep, had a DSG M3 for a day as a loaner. It worked flawlessly at 10 tenths in "manual" mode or just crawling around the 'burbs in "auto". M5's SMGIII was a whore-with-a-sore in comparison.

We have slipped the Euro ZF into our local Fords, why not source a DSG as well ? Then we can all have "flappy paddles"...
Although, the edited ZF shifts as quick as a DSG (thats a POV not a fact, so easy.)

The 2nd generation ZF 6 speed going in to the Falcon in 2014 has the ability to have flappy paddles. Jaguars with this auto do.

Its not a dsg obviously but does the job.

F6E · 17-01-2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I really dont get what the big deal is with DSG...is there less drivetrain loss?

The ZF in the Falcon now is good to last this platform out IMO....there is nothing wrong with it at all. The whole flappy paddle thing is a fad brought on by Jermey Clarkson.

Agreed, ZF will oulast (outclass) this and the next local platform (if it ever happens). I've driven the 8 speed autos (ISF, 535i, 550i, 650i) tranny is constatly swapping ratios, although pretty much impercievable except in the ISF. Surely 6 ratios is MAX required/useable ?. 8 speed is chasing fuel efficiency targets.
Flappy Paddles' only value is at max attack, both hands on the wheel at 9:15 & swapping cogs. Track days or just pushing hard - priceless. Otherwise - garnish.

DSG exists pretty much just to provide mega-fast gear changes, as the next ratio is already engaged, ready, before you select it. As I said the edited ZF would be right up there for shift speed ...possibly not quality...but it's *** sharp !

Wretched · 17-01-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I really dont get what the big deal is with DSG...is there less drivetrain loss?

The ZF in the Falcon now is good to last this platform out IMO....there is nothing wrong with it at all. The whole flappy paddle thing is a fad brought on by Jermey Clarkson.

A lot less drivetrain loss.
My folks have had a Polo 77 for about 18 months or thereabouts and it is equipped with a DSG. Initially there was what I thought was a "slip" from take off but to be honest I didn't see what all the negative fuss was about. It is a fine unit and really helps to get the Polo going at a good pace whilst maintaining pretty good fuel economy, last i checked i think it was running at 5.1 l/100km. The only drama they have had with the car was the rear torsion beam was damaged during shipping, it had a slight bend in it which made the car a little unstable. Other than that a dream run and it travels a good 600 - 700 km a week.

My next car whether it be a Ford or anything else will be a dual clutch transmission (I do love my manual), the speed it changes gears is awesome, at its best just look at the 458 Italia and what it does for that or even the PDK in the 911. It is the future and more and more makes are using them, Ford too with the powershift.
The ZF in the Falcon is a good unit, probably the highlight of the BF2 XR8 I had.

aussie muscle · 18-01-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

And that is why focusing on fuel economy might be the downfall of the Falcon. Large cars are only 7% of the market, its a niche. People have other options which probably make better sense than a large sedan.. so what do you do? Go for the heart, make cars people want to buy rather than being a 'smart choice'. If you are trying to go after people's heads, you are never going to succeed with a 1.8 tonne 40 grand car family sedan.

so what you are saying is, since falcon sells in niche numbers, they ought to start selling it as a niche product? (yeah, sounds kinda obvious). i kinda doubt falcon will ever go back to being a mainstream product like it was in 1986.

z80 · 18-01-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

I have. In a new VW Passat diesel. It's the work of the devil. Doesn't work till the engine has warmed up, but once it has, every time you slow down in slow moving traffic, the engine will turn off - combine that with the throttle lag, DSG hesitation and turbo lag on that car, and it was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life.

The Mercedes system is absolutely perfect.

Engine starts the moment you take foot off the brake pedal, by the time your right foot is on the accelerator the engine is fully functional.

You get what you pay for.

jpd80 · 18-01-2012, 04:52 PM

Around 75% of Falcons are purchased by fleets and novated lease buyers but last year:
- there was no LPG option available for most of last year
- the ATO decided to cut out low levels of FBT for Novated lease users who do over 25,000 km.

Those two factors have basically savaged Falcon's already low figures and hopefully,
the government will o reverse the FBT decision thereby adding inentive to buy vehicles.
Something that looks good on paper an have dire consequences in another places.

adza · 18-01-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

- the ATO decided to cut out low levels of FBT for Novated lease users who do over 25,000 km.

I don't want to get political but you can thank Bob Brown for that one.
It was one of the conditions he put up to give Labor the green support.

prydey · 18-01-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

And that is why focusing on fuel economy might be the downfall of the Falcon. Large cars are only 7% of the market, its a niche. People have other options which probably make better sense than a large sedan.. so what do you do? Go for the heart, make cars people want to buy rather than being a 'smart choice'. If you are trying to go after people's heads, you are never going to succeed with a 1.8 tonne 40 grand car family sedan.

you can't expect them to make money by catering to minority groups. this is why a range of models are no longer available. they may have upset a handful of 'potential' customers but they are saving themselves development and production costs and it isn't really costing them major sales.

Buntz · 18-01-2012, 08:12 PM

Interior wise for the Falcon. I went to the dealer yesterday. I sat in 11 plate XR6. Looked in the new Fiesta. All new global Focus, and Territory.

To my surprise the Aussie made cars interior were much nicer places to be. felt and looked the part. I didn't hop in the mondeo... that's next trip/excuse to go.

Buntz · 18-01-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

you can't expect them to make money by catering to minority groups. this is why a range of models are no longer available. they may have upset a handful of 'potential' customers but they are saving themselves development and production costs and it isn't really costing them major sales.

Which is why the LPG falcon needs to be advertised as a petrol car replacement.

**janddbone** · 18-01-2012, 09:36 PM

I wont buy one due to the fact that I always get wagons, I sadly cant see past the roof and the fact that modern Fords rust even more than they use too. (Not sure how the FG's, specifically, are with rust mind you..)

**DJM83** · 18-01-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Interior wise for the Falcon. I went to the dealer yesterday. I sat in 11 plate XR6. Looked in the new Fiesta. All new global Focus, and Territory.

To my surprise the Aussie made cars interior were much nicer places to be. felt and looked the part. I didn't hop in the mondeo... that's next trip/excuse to go.

Each to their own i guess, i reckon even my LV Focus looks better inside.

Then theres the quality aswell. My XR5 is 2 years old (Built 03/10, bought 09/10) and it still does not have one rattle, creak or misfitting part, and its not standard.