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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#31 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 966
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#32 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,601
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Under the ATS scheme, parts makers were only breaking even. This is NOT a sustainable way to keep selected businesses running, it is a gross waste of public money.
If making parts here was worthwhile, why werent they sending huge volumes overseas ALREADY? Quite simply, we are too expensive when all of the parts manufacturers have set up in china or Thailand.
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____________________ 2019 LDV G10 2009 Mitsubishi Express-GONE 2011 Honda Jazz ____________________ |
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#33 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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Quote:
You could be onto something with the 70-series idea. Plenty of people used to say to buyers defending their choice of (foreign) car things like "Buy Australian made cars you traitor!", but what if there is no "Australian made car" to suit what people want and, more importantly, need? We wanted a twin cab diesel ute...show me an Australian made one and we would probably have bought it if it was competitive on price. Same with every other four wheel drive (of all sorts) owner. There's literally nothing to be had. IF it could be built to suit our needs here, and if they could keep the price competitive with foreign stuff, it would sell. However, price is important, as are features. You would have to fill it with thge standard features we have all come to expect, and price it sharply. People won't buy out of pure flag-waving patriotism, and they generally are badge-blind, and have been for a long long time. |
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#34 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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One good legacy they're leaving behind is the investment and expertise given to the suppliers. While they can't compete on price with China, Thailand et al, we have a massive head start and expertise to create advanced, premium products which are one step ahead. The supplier industry deserves a good, new local car/truck maker to step in, and usher in a new era for Australian vehicles. England's car industry went to the brink, now look at them. It's just a shame the government chooses political expediency at the expense of long term opportunity. |
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#35 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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Would've made a world class Ranger and proud F series too. |
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#36 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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#37 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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They do sell the I6 as a stationary engine. Converted to run on gas.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#38 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,608
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There is a serious amount of inventor / engineer talent in this country, I've got the feeling any home grown maker might be spending time designing after hours, a bit like how Jaguar engineers designed the DOHC XK inline sixes in WW2...
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I6 + AWD |
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#39 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,608
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Quote:
The pre-fab is a great idea, already ships are made in modular, fully fitted sections. There's a 3d 'printing' component being developed for making walls, etc, as well.
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I6 + AWD |
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#40 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,601
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http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2015...Q0I0Jk5uZT0xNQ..
words - Bruce Newton Start-up car company meeting with SA and federal governments New Australian start-up car company Ethan Automotive is in Adelaide today and Canberra tomorrow pitching the case to government for taxpayer backing for its plan to build vehicles locally after the exit of Ford, Holden and Toyota. The company's business plans revolve around building a medium SUV, a sedan and sports coupe off the same platform from late 2018 at a new plant in the Adelaide suburb of Edinburgh Parks with an annual production capacity around 30,000. As reported yesterday, when and if the cars do make it to production they won't be branded Ethan, but will adopt either a retired globally-known name or a new name. The business case developed by Ethan – a spin-off of the Ethan property developments group – forecasts a total investment of $1.5 billion would be needed to get the company up and sustainable. Newly appointed Ethan Automotive chief operating officer Matthew Newey told motoring.com.au that total would eventually come from a combination of public funding and private equity investment, but he said the support of government would be crucial to a successful start-up. "If the business case stacks up with respect to volume and pricing then there is a good business there," Newey said. "But it is going to take a lot of investment up-front. "It is a start-up. We are looking for support from the government for start-up funding." Newey said it would be crucial to get government onboard within months if Ethan was going to stick to its production timetable and launch to the public before the end of 2018. "We need to resolve state and federal funding support for the project this year," he confirmed. "I don't think there will be resolution [at this week's meetings]. For me it's about keeping up engagement with the state and federal governments, to give them access to the numbers we are working through and to view the business case. "This is about giving them confidence in the business so that either state or federal government can get to the point where they can go 'we are now a believer or a supporter of this and this is how we can help from a financial perspective'." Tuesday's meeting is with the South Australian department of premier and cabinet to review the proposed business case. The SA government is showing particular interest in the proposal because of the impact the closure of Holden's Elizabeth plant in late 2017 will have on the state's economy. "I am hoping that by exposing and being open with respect to the business case and showing there is a significant business and significant value to South Australia that should then facilitate a conversation around funding and gaining access to that funding and the timing of that funding." The meeting on Wednesday in Canberra is with the federal department of industry, which has invited Ethan to apply for Motor Vehicle Producer status within the Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) structure. While that would open up some funding to Ethan, it is also campaigning to have the ATS extended beyond the end of 2017 to enable its suppliers to claim research and development benefits of up to 50 cents in the dollar back for work they do on its behalf. "At the end of 2017 as the legislation stands today there won't be a motor vehicle producer in the country and therefore everyone's claims within ATS stops," explained Newey. "So what we need to do is we need to qualify as an MVP and what that does is then allow access for those first tier suppliers to continue to claim post 2017 because there will be a vehicle producer in this country. "We have some hurdles to get over with the federal government; how many vehicles are we going to produce? Can they give us MVP status on national interest based on the number of jobs they think we can bring in to South Australia or the wider economy? "That is a discussion I need to have with the federal government on Wednesday." Newey said he hoped the Abbott government would provide support despites its cutting of support to the multi-nationals Ford, Holden and Toyota that all pull out by the end of 2017. "We would like to think the federal government would support this project," he said. "We would like to think a Liberal government would be interested in jobs in this country and we think we will bring a significant number of jobs via Ethan and the multiplier effect via different businesses that we think will support us. "There is a significant number of heads – upwards of 6000 jobs created directly or indirectly by the Ethan business over the long term." I haven't heard of anything so naive, the govt wont touch this with a 10 foot pole.
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____________________ 2019 LDV G10 2009 Mitsubishi Express-GONE 2011 Honda Jazz ____________________ |
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#41 | ||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
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Big business and govco have effectively destroyed manufacturing in Australia. Small business involved in niche industries and markets may take up a very minute portion of the slack but the wholesale destruction of the productive economy doesn't bode well for the nation.
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#43 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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#44 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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i dont know what the answer is, i just read an interesting article and i see absolute similarities to what has transpired/ is transpiring to our country.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-manufacturing i might open up another 2 dollar shop in a shopping plaza full of imported crap ..... at least i`ll be able to stop and have a latte at lunch time with the other 20 2 dollar shop owners ![]() |
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#45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,923
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I like how its quoted that the FTA with China is supposed to save the average houshold $5000 a year by 2035.
I already save that much as I dont buy $5k of chinese **** a year in the first place
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#46 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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is it too late to un privatize some industry ??? probably.....
or could we influence the turkeys (decision makers) to change their minds about not building boats/navy ships here ?? if we could change their thinking on one single project, it might start a trend ??? |
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#47 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
You buy a $2 loaf of bread from Coles, and you will likely find that the truck that transported it to the shop had chinese parts, the equipment that made the bread had chinese parts, the factory where the bread was made had chinese parts. |
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#48 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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This government is ideologically opposed to manufacturing cars here so fat chance with the funding. Nothing of that scale is going to get off the ground, its good the component sector is still working hard to justify its existence, but I don't see this one coming to pass if it relies on a cash injection by the Liberals.
We'll have to wait for 3D printing, because the passion is still there. :P But lets say we did set up a new carmarker- it'd have to be premium so that labour costs weren't a factor. and we'd have to target big export markets so we'd need a USP. I wouldn't say its impossible, on the contrary but not in the way that other carmakers have flourished ( with government assistance, and a heavy component sector). It'd need to be a new, lean, innovative way of building cars like Gordon Murray's iStream that's being used for TVR. Or maybe more along the lines of Tesla. Again, even advanced manufacturing or any growth in the sector is just not going to happen under Abbott. |
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#49 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Well it would need to have a high volume, or high markups in order for it to be viable in this country. And if they're planning on making a sedan, then there is problem number one.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#50 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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#51 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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The number one killer of progress in AU is red tape and overzealous OH&S costings. Sure we need safety in the work place but the horror stories I hear and have to deal with as a project manager (even in IT it is ridiculous) just make it a waste of time and money. Many projects are abandoned because of the cost to just assess them outweighs any benefits. If Australia is serious about an investment and industry revolution then they need to get serious about attracting it here. Cut the costs and red tape associated with business. You don't need to abandon quality or safety, you just need some common sense. Encourage people to get back to work and encourage business investment, it'll bring growth. Additionally the general workforce attitude needs to change. There seems to be a sense of entitlement, no matter how good the salary is people want more and more for doing no more work. The amount of reasons I have seen from people as to why they deserve a 10%+ payrise, they should re read their job description. Pride in work isn't a priority anymore and it shows in the quality of some of the products. Australians are generally smart people and that has shown in the past, but in the past 5 - 10 years the skillset has slipped, it is very disappointing. The quality vs cost just doesn't balance. I'd like to see us bounce back, manufacturing, engineering, farming, science, etc. We just need governments, companies and workers to work together for the future, it would benefit each one. We need to get out of the us vs them mentality.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#52 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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#53 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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I think Australia is in a box seat to turn around the production of things, but we probably need to focus on segments where we are some of the biggest purchases in the world, like large offroad 4wds, performance sedans and dual cab Utes.
Look at England, phenomenal turnaround in manufacturing there which has led to the creation of tens of thousands of jobs and big economic increases, purely due to the government deciding it wants things built there. |
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#54 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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I'm in engineering and construction and working with global offices, in my opinion Australians are probably the most productive and invested in their work. In Thailand we would honestly have staff simply not show up for a few days with no explanation and they are hugely into seniority of age - so the older workers just coast as they just need to put in the years. The younger workers know they won't be promoted as there are employees who have been there longer so they don't put in the effort as well. I haven't worked in Japan, but people I know who have say its all about appearance. A job that will take an Australian a few hours would take a Japanese person 10 as there is a big emphasis put on the hours worked. Some Japanese would literally sit at their desks with nothing on till late at night as it looks bad to leave early. Australia has a lot of problems and it can be expensive here, but don't knock the quality of worker here, they can be really good. Overall though the differences between countries arnt huge, we all want to feel proud about the work we do - no matter who you are. Maybe one of the benefits of a country with such big mortgages and personal debt people want to work and keep their jobs! Last edited by Brazen; 19-06-2015 at 05:29 PM. |
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#55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,215
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Quote:
But mainly it is just rubbish now, there is a big problem with the she will be right bozo attitude and just greed driven sub human rat bags everywhere, who don't have any fair dinkum moral compasses at all. It mainly got pushed from the big building boom on, that things went to hell, from what I have seen, all the yobbos started doing work the fools way and builders seen that it could be done that way and get away with such rubbish, years ago such a one would be punched out and tossed out on the street directly for doing such moronic rubbish. If I was to point out that something is not correct before I start my job, that should be rectified before I start my job, I am informed that they do not care at all and to just start the job regardless or else they will try to destroy my reputation and business and the thing is, I don't have a leg to stand on with people like that nowadays. the job must be finished by X date as well. It is now just a mongrel 3rd rate backward society that we now have and everything has gravitated to the lowest common denominator as 'the standard', regardless of what you want to talk about, it's all upside down nowadays and the Dregs Rule this nation now and they rule like Nazis, pushing others around and threating others lively hoods, if they don't tow their New Age simpleton deranged line. I am not even allowed to quote Builders jobs anymore, as you just cop what they think they are happy to pay. So I got out of that business and they ring me now, with things that they can't find people who have the skill to do such, they have to import people in now to do that, because they have destroyed the industry with their short sighted narrow minded grubby derelict filthy ways. |
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#56 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
The building industry, one where you would hope and expect quality, it just isn't there. I have had numerous people stressed because their houses are late due to poor workmanship at the foundation layer (cracked pipes, pipes not being laid to a standard depth), brickwork very sloppy and visually seen to be poor, various interior issues as well. I have even known one family who were on the final plan of their house and were about to sign off on it and then happened to notice a change made where each room would have had a manhole in the ceiling. It's all about chasing the $$ and not delivering on quality. It isn't one level of employee, some places the rot starts at the top and goes down. That's what I am trying to say, attitudes here need to change if we're to succeed. Keep the status quo at your own peril.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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if they really did want us building stuff here , you would be sick to death of hearing the decision makers saying " BUY AUSTRALIAN " at every opportunity. when was the last time you heard a single murmur in the news from a decision maker saying we must buy Australian to help the country ? Answer , a bloody long time ago. |
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#58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In Front of a Monitor
Posts: 1,639
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As others have said it all goes back to the Lima Declaration of 1975.
The people of Australia have never been the #1 priority of any government since.
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2004 Mercury Silver Falcon XR6T - 5 Speed 2017 Platinum White Mustang GT - 6 Speed 2022 Blue Thai-Special for Daily Duties - Auto |
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#59 | ||
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,530
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The first problem is to find a solution to overcome the biggest obstacle of all - Aussies don’t buy Australian.
Aussies have an inferiority complex and a built in conceived notion that imported products offer better pricing, quality, innovation and status. |
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#60 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,017
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Future of Australian manufacturing? I dunno but I've seen this thing in the flesh being designed and tuned since late 2012:
![]() The guy built it from the ground up from nothing in a tiny workshop in the New Gisborne industrial estate, it meets Euro V emissions regulations while making 700hp and doing 0-100 in 2.6 seconds from a stroked and twin supercharged Honda K24, its 100% road legal in Australia as it meets all the ADRs required. http://www.motormag.com.au/news/1506...as-ariel-atom/ The last time I saw it was towards the end of its development: ![]() The dude used to annoy everyone on Ladd Rd in the industrial estate running this thing up on the dyno all the damn time. http://quantumpv.com.au/ No, its not an Aerial Atom. We've got dudes like this in our country who can build a car in a tiny workshop which meet current emissions regulations and ADRs, I'm sure we can still make cars in some form or another. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 20-06-2015 at 07:12 PM. |
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