Australia's car industry one year from closing its doors

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Sprint

I worked at Holdens and I also worked in the export area, we were sending 2.6 commodores to china, we was building the Monaro Pontiac for America(which was nice to drive).

Soon after the Monaro contract went to mexico because it obviously cheaper to make on corn chips, they basically stole our Monaro, our designs and shipped it somewhere else.

Monaroes still being made in Mexico? How about they ship our Falcon designs and pressing equipment and ship to Argentina, where the Falcon has a long heritage, and Falcon could exist somewhere on this planet. don't think they care much for emissions over in Argentina

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Monaroes still being made in Mexico? How about they ship our Falcon designs and pressing equipment and ship to Argentina, where the Falcon has a long heritage, and Falcon could exist somewhere on this planet. don't think they care much for emissions over in Argentina

The Monaro is now called the Pontiac GTO

[FGX335]

Didn't Pontiac close down?

[Bossxr8]

Yes, and the GTO was gone years ago. And they were never made outside of Australia either, don't know where he's getting the made in Mexico thing from.

[Sprint]

what I was told at the time. 2005

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Sprint

The Monaro is now called the Pontiac GTO

Yeah right ....

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

You've written a well worded piece Sprintey. And I thought I was the only one that keeps a couple of pre-1945 florins and a crown in my pocket

Thank you Loud Noises, tip 'o the hat to you sir. I also have a particular affinity for 'Casey's Cartwheel', the 1937 Crown. Originally intended to be a commemorative coin for the 1936 Coronation, it became "something else" when the King decided to shoot through with Mrs Simpson!

Just out of interest - Australia's Commonwealth coinage was 92.5% silver (remainder mostly copper for hardness) until 1945, when we were broke and devalued to 50% until the coming of decimal currency when "you get nothing!". The round 50c was the exception, for a year.

Britain, on the other hand, was broke after WW1 and 1918 is the year which the mother country's coin went from 92.5% to 50% silver. All were identical denominations, but between 1918 and 1945 the Commonwealth coinage is more valuable...

Another fascinating study was the clipping of money in Imperial Rome - you can correlate the decline and fall to the % of gold and silver in the coins. Lastly a big raspberry to Richard Nixon for 1971...

[Trump]

It is dismissed as kookery, but sound money is so vital to a healthy nation and economy. However at the moment, the status quo of unlimited fiat is maintained and rigorously enforced, to the detriment of everyone except one group... the banks.

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Yeah right ....

Well they were doing it.

http://www.cars.com/pontiac/gto/2006/snapshot

Maybe they don't make them anymore.

oh wait this looks like a commodore?

http://www.pontiac.com/vehicles/pontiac_vehicles.html

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Well they were doing it.

http://www.cars.com/pontiac/gto/2006/snapshot

Maybe they don't make them anymore.

oh wait this looks like a commodore?

http://www.pontiac.com/vehicles/pontiac_vehicles.html

Yeah ten years ago.

Are you in a time machine ?

[Sprint]

hot tub baby

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Well they were doing it.

http://www.cars.com/pontiac/gto/2006/snapshot

Maybe they don't make them anymore.

oh wait this looks like a commodore?

http://www.pontiac.com/vehicles/pontiac_vehicles.html

Building Holden's under the Pontiac name in Mexico???

No, they were not.

Pontiac G8 -
Manufacturer Holden (General Motors)
Also called Chevrolet Lumina (Middle East, South Africa)
Chevrolet Omega (Brazil)
Holden Commodore (VE)
Production 18 December 2007[1]–June 2009[2]
Model years 2008–2009
Assembly Australia: Elizabeth, South Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_G8

[theBlake]

Are there any indications from the manufacturers or the market what is going to replace the Falcon or Commodore as the staple diet for Australians.


I guess it's already happened as the 6cyl RWD family sedan is not as common as it used to be but there is still going to be a big hole when they are gone. After 50+ years that is kind of sad.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by theBlake

Are there any indications from the manufacturers or the market what is going to replace the Falcon or Commodore as the staple diet for Australians.


I guess it's already happened as the 6cyl RWD family sedan is not as common as it used to be but there is still going to be a big hole when they are gone. After 50+ years that is kind of sad.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by theBlake

Are there any indications from the manufacturers or the market what is going to replace the Falcon or Commodore as the staple diet for Australians.


I guess it's already happened as the 6cyl RWD family sedan is not as common as it used to be but there is still going to be a big hole when they are gone. After 50+ years that is kind of sad.

Already sorted, theyre called Mazda 3,Hyundai I30 and Toyota Corolla.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by theBlake

Are there any indications from the manufacturers or the market what is going to replace the Falcon or Commodore as the staple diet for Australians.


I guess it's already happened as the 6cyl RWD family sedan is not as common as it used to be but there is still going to be a big hole when they are gone. After 50+ years that is kind of sad.

Jaguar XE/XF, BMW 3, 5 series, Merc C Class as well (selling like gangbusters). RWD mid and full size sedans, motors pointing north-south. (To an extent the Audi A4/A6 and although I think those are FWD engineered initially with AWD as upper specs.) This trend is ongoing and strong and explains the sales growth of the premium midsize sedans at the expense of the less 'prestige' mid/fullsize FWDs which are flopping except the effervescent Camry.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Jaguar XE/XF, BMW 3, 5 series, Merc C Class as well (selling like gangbusters). RWD mid and full size sedans, motors pointing north-south. (To an extent the Audi A4/A6 and although I think those are FWD engineered initially with AWD as upper specs.) This trend is ongoing and strong and explains the sales growth of the premium midsize sedans at the expense of the less 'prestige' mid/fullsize FWDs which are flopping except the effervescent Camry.

Mercedes E and BMW 5 are closer to the Falcon/Commodore family car size.

The one element that's kinda missing there is the affordable family car!

[theBlake]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Already sorted, theyre called Mazda 3,Hyundai I30 and Toyota Corolla.

I just knew someone would say that.

Hyundai have been selling cars in Australia for 28 years. A quick look at Carsales.com.au has only 3 listings for Hyundais >20yo I know Hyundai make better cars now, but I still can't see any lasting as long as the mighty Falcon

[Trump]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Mercedes E and BMW 5 are closer to the Falcon/Commodore family car size.

The one element that's kinda missing there is the affordable family car!

Parallel importing would make E-Class MB's and 5-series BMW's come close to being affordable instead of the $110k propositions they currently are.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by theBlake

I just knew someone would say that.

Hyundai have been selling cars in Australia for 28 years. A quick look at Carsales.com.au has only 3 listings for Hyundais >20yo I know Hyundai make better cars now, but I still can't see any lasting as long as the mighty Falcon

Doesn't mean those cars are now not the staple diet for Aussies.....just that they may need to head back to the dining table a little more often (although I tend to think people are heading back to the dining table more often now than they used to anyway, irrespective of brand).

[mik]

Originally Posted by johnydep

If you're worried about currency, you would be better off holding onto Gold.

If manufacturing is so important, answer me this: how could a manufacturing industry be sustainable for every country to have the same industry? Not at all, if we all did the same thing. We can't all build cars. It just wont work, even if we stopped all imports, we'd just build basic A-B vehicles that the populace could afford with their minimal income because our export industry is limited by other countries shutting us out.

Countries are businesses. If you shut one out, they'll shut you out.

Manufacturing is a business, it must be an economical business. If it relies on tax payer funding to stay afloat it becomes uneconomical. People are taxed higher which decreases their disposable income, and the product pricing is influenced by having no competition = high prices, low income.

If people want an industry to remain, they need to purchase the product and purchase it often.

Look at how Japan started their Auto industry - made cheap copies of other products, sold them cheap, made laws and increased taxes on older model cars, etc = force people to continually purchase new models & dispose of 3-5 year old models, so as to keep factories turning over at fast rates. High number = lower costs.

Our car manufacturing died for a number of reasons, one of the reasons is what most people have in their drive way = it wasn't a new local built product every 3-5 years.

We need new industry, there are many opportunities for Australia. The world is our oyster, we will prosper.

All true mate, but there was a time when we got along just fine without having twice as many imports and import brands of cars in the country than what US has, and i think you could argue , in a lot of ways we where more self sufficient and way better off.
we are in a state of de industrialiazation .

I`m sorry i dont share your optimism , unless something radically changes in in this country in years to come expect more of the same and living standards to drop and for the have nots to increase in size while the haves will shrink and social costs to sky rocket.
Think Detroit on slower scale, but this is where we are heading imo, but i hope i am proved wrong.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by mik

All true mate, but there was a time when we got along just fine without having twice as many imports and import brands of cars in the country than what US has, and i think you could argue , in a lot of ways we where more self sufficient and way better off.
we are in a state of de industrialiazation .

I`m sorry i dont share your optimism , unless something radically changes in in this country in years to come expect more of the same and living standards to drop and for the have nots to increase in size while the haves will shrink and social costs to sky rocket.
Think Detroit on slower scale, but this is where we are heading imo, but i hope i am proved wrong.

My father's generation spoke of similar problems - 'no industry, lower wages, high unemployment, poor living standards....'

Compare the 60's to the 70's, the 70's to the 80's, the 80's to the 90's, the 90's to the 00. We've been through booms & busts, that's a natural part of a total economic society. Each time a new generation is born into higher living standards, higher education, higher wages, cleaner environment, safer working conditions....

Our new industries are the 'service' industries, technology, food.... As our neighbours population middle classes increase they will require our services. We already offer more jobs from those industry, than manufacturing.

There is a lot to be optimistic about, you just need to look at the bigger picture and stop believing the doomsayers that have more to lose than gain from us staying with the old ways.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by theBlake

I just knew someone would say that.

Hyundai have been selling cars in Australia for 28 years. A quick look at Carsales.com.au has only 3 listings for Hyundais >20yo I know Hyundai make better cars now, but I still can't see any lasting as long as the mighty Falcon

To be fair, Hyundai never shifted serious volume in Australia until the late 90's, still plenty of those getting around.
You wont find older hyundais on carsales, try gumtree or trading post, plenty to choose from.
A late nineties excel cost less than half a falcon, if you got 8-10 years from it then took it to sims, you were in front, I have run 2 of them over the years, a good shopping trolley.

[mik]

Originally Posted by johnydep

My father's generation spoke of similar problems - 'no industry, lower wages, high unemployment, poor living standards....'

Compare the 60's to the 70's, the 70's to the 80's, the 80's to the 90's, the 90's to the 00. We've been through booms & busts, that's a natural part of a total economic society. Each time a new generation is born into higher living standards, higher education, higher wages, cleaner environment, safer working conditions....

Our new industries are the 'service' industries, technology, food.... As our neighbours population middle classes increase they will require our services. We already offer more jobs from those industry, than manufacturing.

There is a lot to be optimistic about, you just need to look at the bigger picture and stop believing the doomsayers that have more to lose than gain from us staying with the old ways.

I do look at the bigger picture , and i ive been in a lot of different industries over the years and can put two and two together without relying on doom sayers.
some industries we had of which are now gone over seas to greener pastures we may never see again, and we as a country are much poorer for it.

service is over rated and relying on countries like china to bring in the wealth is major folly imo , and while there may be some good things , there are also some bad things that are already happening that some people seem to be too blind to see , but in any event we will see what happens as time goes on..

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

and relying on countries like china to bring in the wealth is major folly imo

You do realize the last time Australia tried doing it themselves it was a massive failure and we got into serious debt. This was in 1910's. From then the money came from the English, US, Japanese/Singapore and now China.

[creative]

Not my words but saw this post on a UK forum discussing a similar thing regarding manufacturing in the uk..

! There is an in-grained disgruntlment within manufacturing organisations that seems to be of the opinion that these big companies somehow have bottomless pockets and are making vast fortunes at their personal expense. Nothing could be further from the truth. As we are seeing lately huge established works are closing having made massive losses for years. The place I work in now is losing tens of millions a year, the new site in Suzhou will turn a profit inside 5 years. What do you reckon will happen to the UK site?

A guy I work with used to specialise in factory closures with transfer to to the likes of Korea. He'd been doing that for ten years.

Wake up and smell the coffee, our manufacturing organisations are outdated, our workforce significantly more expensive, our management structures lost in the past and the rest of the world is educating itself faster and cheaper then we are. A new approach is needed.

I think it also applies to this thread.

[mik]

Originally Posted by vztrt

You do realize the last time Australia tried doing it themselves it was a massive failure and we got into serious debt. This was in 1910's. From then the money came from the English, US, Japanese/Singapore and now China.

1910 was a long time ago , we where not even an ink spot in those days.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

1910 was a long time ago , we where not even an ink spot in those days.

The same problem applies. You want the infrastructure you either borrow big and spend or you get someone else to do it.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by mik

1910 was a long time ago , we where not even an ink spot in those days.

20, 50, 100 years... what does it matter, time is short & 1910 was not that long ago in the scheme of things when we're discussing the future of many generations of people.

Similar discussions/debates happened in the 80's during the Hawke / Keating days, with many changes passed through both sides of parliament. Those major changes set us up for many years of prosperity. The Howard years enjoyed the fruits of the previous years and continued by changing the tax system.

Change is hard, but nothing stands still.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Mercedes E and BMW 5 are closer to the Falcon/Commodore family car size.

The one element that's kinda missing there is the affordable family car!

I read an article on the New Toyota Crown. its big and RWD & optional AWD.
surely that could sell for an affordable price?
but there's no mention of it coming here..