The Australian SAS is on par with the most elite American Special Forces

[steamin63]

to show you how elite the majority of us special forces are a few years back during KANGAROO 89 [the largest peace time exercise held on australian soil last 'century'] a delta force strike group was tracked,ambushed and taken prisoner buy a squad of NORFORCE soldiers north of kununurra W.A. NORFORCE are an army reserve unit spread across the north of australia consisting of local aboriginals usually commanded at section level by a regular army senior NCO. cheers.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

Saying they are 'the best' is kind of strange. Consideration must be given to the theatre of war they are operating in. Jungle combat is considered a very strong point for Australian SASR, whereas the British SBS, fo rinstance, would be considered the best in the world at storming or taking a ship. Similarly, then Green Berets are basically only a highly competent teachign outfit, but are teh best at getting results using local units.

I don't think its possible to declare any special forces unit as 'the best'. It needs to be qualified a little more than that with where they are operating and what they are trying to achieve.

I'd agree with most of this comment.

When the old man was in the SAS ('73-'78), most credit worldwide was given in this order:

Pommy SAS
Aussie SAS
French Foreigh Legion

Seal's were ranked quite lowly and Green berets were less again.

When it came to Jungle warfare, the Aussie SAS and Pommy trained Ghurka's were right at the pointy end.

Times have changed, and the Aussie SAS, once known for it's skills in the jungle is well held and respected in Afghanistan.

Still won't tell me anything the old bugger!

Daniel.

[steamin63]

the reason the SAS[uk,ozz and kiwi] are so highly regarded is that the regiment is broken into squadrons and each squadron specializes in different fields ie counter terrorism,recon,diplomatic protection etc.a SAS trooper will be rotated through the squadrons so that after a few years he will be highly proficient at all aspects of SAS training. add to that international postings and transfers between the regiments and that is why they are so good . cheers.

[Steffo]

Back when I was at school, in Year 6, the groundskeeper of said school served in Vietnam and did a talk thingy about things that happened over there. One of the things I remember was his constant comments about the total incompetance of the US soldiers in Vietnam. I remember him mentioning things like American soldiers smoking a cigarette whilst "hiding," in the jungle at night in pitch-blackness! Or generally being loud when they were supposed to be quiet, having their nametag chains clanging around etc. And spraying themselves with sweet-smelling anti-bug spray (enemy could smell them).

Without airpower, the states has nothing.

[xbgs351]

How about the Israelis?

[sleekism]

I think the first U.S. casulty in Vietnam was from friendly fire. I patrol of Marines split up and one of them shot his two mates.

I have a lot of respect for the SAS but the Australian regular infantry have a lot of dropkicks who couldn't shoot an enemy if they came up and turkey slapped them in the face. Some infantry are so hopeless I fear for Australian security. But regardless they think they are Gods which often gets them knocked out by other corps when the "poge" comment comes along.

The Aussie digger is good because he usually a binge drinking bogan from a rural area with a lot of balls. That being said the Kiwis are bloody good I don't need to elaborate on the infamous Maori units.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by CAT600

I'd agree with most of this comment.

When the old man was in the SAS ('73-'78), most credit worldwide was given in this order:

Pommy SAS
Aussie SAS
French Foreigh Legion

Seal's were ranked quite lowly and Green berets were less again.

When it came to Jungle warfare, the Aussie SAS and Pommy trained Ghurka's were right at the pointy end.

Times have changed, and the Aussie SAS, once known for it's skills in the jungle is well held and respected in Afghanistan.

Still won't tell me anything the old bugger!

Daniel.

First year at uni, I boarded with a family and the father had been in the army for years and years. Commenting on the Ghurkas he said that out in the jungle during the night without having heard or seen a thing you would feel a blade pressed up against your throat and a hand that felt the badges on your uniform, checking to see if you were an ally or not.

[BFYOOT]

my wife was in the army, reckons during field training they would sometimes be trained by the SAS fellas, or against them. apparently they were like ghosts in the bush, could move without a sound. try walking through dry leaves without them rustling........not real easy. trained to kill, trained to survive nothing more nothing less which is why the poor buggers often have problems in society. glad their on our side

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by BFYOOT

my wife was in the army, reckons during field training they would sometimes be trained by the SAS fellas, or against them. apparently they were like ghosts in the bush, could move without a sound. try walking through dry leaves without them rustling........not real easy. trained to kill, trained to survive nothing more nothing less which is why the poor buggers often have problems in society. glad their on our side

They have problems in society due to the incompatibility between their exceptional awareness, motivation, forseight and intelligence, contrasting with the majority of the poulation not being "at their level"

Trust me, 29 years living with one gives me a fair idea!

Daniel

[BFYOOT]

Originally Posted by CAT600

They have problems in society due to the incompatibility between their exceptional awareness, motivation, forseight and intelligence, contrasting with the majority of the poulation not being "at their level"

Trust me, 29 years living with one gives me a fair idea!

Daniel

couldnt have been more right mate

[RIPGMH]

Originally Posted by nugget378

The legion etrange would chew up and spit out them blokes..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion

With those uniforms I'd be more scared bending over infront of them then having a gun fight.

[BFYOOT]

remember the van damme foreign legion movie?

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by BFYOOT

remember the van damme foreign legion movie?

Van damme is the reason why they are so elite.

[steamin63]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I think the first U.S. casulty in Vietnam was from friendly fire. I patrol of Marines split up and one of them shot his two mates.

I have a lot of respect for the SAS but the Australian regular infantry have a lot of dropkicks who couldn't shoot an enemy if they came up and turkey slapped them in the face. Some infantry are so hopeless I fear for Australian security. But regardless they think they are Gods which often gets them knocked out by other corps when the "poge" comment comes along.

The Aussie digger is good because he usually a binge drinking bogan from a rural area with a lot of balls. That being said the Kiwis are bloody good I don't need to elaborate on the infamous Maori units.

mate you are so wrong for so many reasons. being ex armoured corp i have no particular love for the "grunts" but i have a hell of a lot of respect for what they do and how they do it. they are the best infantry in the world. i've served both on exercise and operationally with the brits,yanks[us army and the marines],kiwis and the ghukas and i'm telling you the australians are the most professional and proficient. the others are very good to varying degrees [except for the yanks who are nothing but cannon fodder]. as for the binge drinking bogan statement i have no idea where you got that perception from considering the army [and the ADF]has the most diverse social cross section of any organization in the country. cheers.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Commenting on the Ghurkas he said that out in the jungle during the night without having heard or seen a thing you would feel a blade pressed up against your throat and a hand that felt the badges on your uniform, checking to see if you were an ally or not.

During the Falklands war, 'released',- they had a habit of stringing ears of slain Argentine foe 'as proof' of effort to show their British force counterparts, it was almost a competition among them to see who could 'get the most'. T'was quitely suggested they not make a habit of doing this.

In East Timor when TNI were still around Dili, in a scene captured by camera crew, had a Ghurka simply walking in and 'camping' himself directly in an Indonesian pit overlooking town, his weapon aimed at those 'occupying' troops, to make them uncomfortable and leave.

One of the Indonesians standing up, in english bearing 'sly-smile' and sarcastic laugh said vis - 'you look, but not aim gun at us okay?' and phsically motions the stock of Ghurkas rifle 'away' - so that it is not aimed directly at them. The ghurka, a smaller build man, not in the least showing intimidation, simply immediately re-aims and continues observation, 'ignoring' the Indonesian as irrelevant. They get up and chatter among themselves at their new 'visitor' camped in their elevated pit and slink off away from the scene.

A tense moment that signalled the 'determination' of the Gurkha, they understood what I'd call the displayed 'arrogance' of serving TNI and would accept none of it.

IF they had tried something on, no doubt in earth none of the three indonesians would be alive, the ghurka meant business.

[XRNIL8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I think the first U.S. casulty in Vietnam was from friendly fire. I patrol of Marines split up and one of them shot his two mates.

I have a lot of respect for the SAS but the Australian regular infantry have a lot of dropkicks who couldn't shoot an enemy if they came up and turkey slapped them in the face. Some infantry are so hopeless I fear for Australian security. But regardless they think they are Gods which often gets them knocked out by other corps when the "poge" comment comes along.

The Aussie digger is good because he usually a binge drinking bogan from a rural area with a lot of balls. That being said the Kiwis are bloody good I don't need to elaborate on the infamous Maori units.

I think you are unfairly critisising an entire section of the Australian Army on the basis that as diggers they have clearly peaved you off about once or currently being a poge ..... explains to me why you were called it really.

I do agree that there are certain groups withing the Infantry that fit your stereo typical mould of a digger, it is much the same as any other profession .... some great employees and some tossers ... and a lot of good working honest aussies there doing their bit. Some are not suited to being desk jockies or tucker ..ckers or anything else for that matter ..... and some would just prefer to be out front covering your backside.

I served in the now defunct Ready Reserve, really enjoyed the opportunity and still miss the great lifestyle and mateship that being an infantry soldier brought me. We had war games to improve our abilities and those who we fought against .... one particular event involved RNZI and 2/4 RAR. Our Platoon of RRes Infantry soldiers embarrassed both groups and we witnessed Officers tearing the backsides out of both units in front of us due to our professional approach as apposed to their sunday school stroll in the park. I still wear the scar from a Maori soldier on my forehead with pride, because I frightened the bejesus out of him and he almost turned white when I came out of "nowhere" and took him down.

Whilst it is easy to stand back and say, well you have just proven I was right .... I would suggest that I have not .... they were games .... not real life and death. Training games are there to improve the abilities of our diggers and other soldiers in our forces. They do this as they have done for many decades, through experience and knowledge.

I never hid behind my corps as a soldier, I was happy to share a "quiet beer" with anyone that wore the same uniform as I, or a goffa if they didn't drink ....

As far as the Australian Army goes, the SASR are the elite ... the very best of the best and are highly respected by all Infantry Soldiers. I had the pleasure of preparing the meal of an SASR Warrant Officer during duties week at Singleton in IET's ..... the man came into the kitchen when I was bashing pots to thank me and the Corporal Cook for his meal, without turning around, I said, "no probs mate" ..... then turned around and realised what I had said and to whom I had said it ..... near pooped in my pants and apologised quick smart standing to attention. He simply replied, that's alright mate ...

Later, the Corporal Cook and I shared a drink (yes, we both had beers) and laughed about the whole thing.

For the record, I was offered a posting to 1RAR on completion of my contract, but took up a far better job working with a few hundred women rather than 30 odd blokes ....... I was also offered sub1 for corporal before the posting if I chose to sign up. I took up nursing and now enjoy a lifestyle that brings me into similar sorts of combat zones ....... Emergency Nursing .....

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by steamin63

mate you are so wrong for so many reasons. being ex armoured corp i have no particular love for the "grunts" but i have a hell of a lot of respect for what they do and how they do it. they are the best infantry in the world. i've served both on exercise and operationally with the brits,yanks[us army and the marines],kiwis and the ghukas and i'm telling you the australians are the most professional and proficient. the others are very good to varying degrees [except for the yanks who are nothing but cannon fodder]. as for the binge drinking bogan statement i have no idea where you got that perception from considering the army [and the ADF]has the most diverse social cross section of any organization in the country. cheers.

I'm not meaning any insult because I have mates currently serving in the infantry but in the past few years they have really lowered their standards.

I had one mate from school who signed up and he was the biggest skirt you ever knew. In highschool if he fell over and grazed his knee he would burst into tears and when somebody would pick on him he would be a coward and cry etc. Somehow the recruiters thought he was Infantry material and he enlisted. After IET he was still a coward but now a cocky coward.

Being a nob he pulled a combat knife on a mate but my mate pulled a dart on him and the guy was bloody scared of a dart and backed out :. He then got himself into all sorts of strife when a few mates worked out he was a coward and wouldn't fight and the poor sob ended up getting turkey slapped while crying.

I know this is only one person but would you want someone who is not up to the job watching your back?? I have a long family military history with Vietnam, WW2 and WW1 on my dads side and my grandfather on my mothers side served in the elite Panzergrenadier-Division Großdeutschland. The diggers have a long proud history I just fear they are being ameracanised too much.

[BOOSTDEF]

How can you say these guys are the elite?

They sure as hell couldnt(and still cant by the looks of it) compete with Guerrilla warfare tactics of the Viet kong, or at present with the Afghans.

But hey, theres always bombing the crap out of something if infantry cant do their job ;)

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by BOOSTDEF

How can you say these guys are the elite?

They sure as hell couldnt(and still cant by the looks of it) compete with Guerrilla warfare tactics of the Viet kong, or at present with the Afghans.

But hey, theres always bombing the crap out of something if infantry cant do their job ;)

The SAS?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I'm not meaning any insult because I have mates currently serving in the infantry but in the past few years they have really lowered their standards.

I had one mate from school who signed up and he was the biggest skirt you ever knew. In highschool if he fell over and grazed his knee he would burst into tears and when somebody would pick on him he would be a coward and cry etc. Somehow the recruiters thought he was Infantry material and he enlisted. After IET he was still a coward but now a cocky coward.

Being a nob he pulled a combat knife on a mate but my mate pulled a dart on him and the guy was bloody scared of a dart and backed out :. He then got himself into all sorts of strife when a few mates worked out he was a coward and wouldn't fight and the poor sob ended up getting turkey slapped while crying.

I know this is only one person but would you want someone who is not up to the job watching your back?? I have a long family military history with Vietnam, WW2 and WW1 on my dads side and my grandfather on my mothers side served in the elite Panzergrenadier-Division Großdeutschland. The diggers have a long proud history I just fear they are being ameracanised too much.

Are we talking the SAS here or the weekend warriors... (Army reserve....).?
BIG difference...

The SAS are "elite", and on a global scale too, no two ways about it, we don't hear about 99.9% of what they do, most wont even admit to being in the SASR...

[Envious]

Originally Posted by BOOSTDEF

How can you say these guys are the elite?

They sure as hell couldnt(and still cant by the looks of it) compete with Guerrilla warfare tactics of the Viet kong, or at present with the Afghans.

But hey, theres always bombing the crap out of something if infantry cant do their job ;)

Ok, I sure as hell hope your not talking about the SASR mate, cause my blood is boiling right now..

[Green X]

Originally Posted by BOOSTDEF

How can you say these guys are the elite?

They sure as hell couldnt(and still cant by the looks of it) compete with Guerrilla warfare tactics of the Viet kong, or at present with the Afghans.

But hey, there always bombing the crap out of something if infantry cant do their job ;)

yeah unlike Guerrilla's the SAS don't just go in and blow the C rap out of what ever and kill innocent people, they need to a point conform to rules and regulations, and wall to wall media coverage just makes it harder for mabey not the SAS so much but the military to go in a fight.

can't compete with the Afghans, well lets see you got a hand full of SAS solders up against what 1000's of Afghan fighters hiding in hills and in the population and you will hear of 1 or 2 of the dozens of missions they have completed and we have lost what 2 SAS over how many years to the god knows how many the SAS have taken down.

[Envious]

Sleekism, i agree that there are some blokes these days that arent up to mustard with the diggers of a few years back. And yes, the problem is partially at the recruiting office, but some of the blame should also be laid on the fact that the training standards have changed as well.
Which is very unfortunate but there isnt much we can do about it. So we deal.
We try hard to weed out the feeders and the ones who are a danger to others and themselves and they, majority of the time, dont make it overseas.

The Army is like any other job in the world when it comes to the different types of people that are 'in'. You have your stars, your grey men, your coasters, and your feeders etc.

And about your fears of 'Americanisation' of our Army, dont worry. It will never be like that. The Australian Army, all the services for that matter, have a proud and long history and are held in high regard by the Armies of the world. And yeah it sounds corny, but while i am a serving member i will be doing my best to uphold the tradition and continue the respect that so many fought and died for.

[xbgs351]

The Australian Army has dropped its required fitness standards has it not?

[Envious]

I cant comment on the Entry Fitness Assessment to get recruited but the Basic Fitness Assessment (BFA) that all members are required to do at the very least every 6 months has not changed.

The only thing that i know of being changed is that the medical standards for recruitment were lowered so people that have mild athsma, slightly overweight etc could get in. The overweight part isnt a problem, i was 95kgs when i started my recruit course, ended up being about 84kgs when i left. Then lost some more doing IET's hehe.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

we don't hear about 99.9% of what they do, most wont even admit to being in the SASR...

Spot on 4V, as I said in an earlier post, The old man still wont talk about it, and that was 34 years ago.

Daniel

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Green X

can't compete with the Afghans, well lets see you got a hand full of SAS solders up against what 1000's of Afghan fighters hiding in hills and in the population and you will hear of 1 or 2 of the dozens of missions they have completed and we have lost what 2 SAS over how many years to the god knows how many the SAS have taken down.

There was a little joke going around Swanbourne a while ago, went like this:

The Colonel of a large Taliban battalion is leading his soldiers through the foothills in Afghanistan, when he hears a voice beyond a ridge:

" One Australian SAS soildier is worth 10 Taliban " The voice declares

The Colonel issues a rapid order to 10 of his best men to dispatch the infidel.

A few minutes pass, there is the sounds of hand to hand combat beyond the ridge before all goes quiet.

" One Australian SAS soildier is worth 100 Taliban " The voice declares

The Colonel issues another order, this time to 100 of his men to dispatch the infidel.

10 minutes pass, there is the sound of firearms beyond the ridge then silence.

" One Australian SAS soildier is worth 1000 Taliban " The voice declares

In sheer anger and desperation, the Colonel orders his remaining 1000 troops, to bring him the head of the foreign scum.

1 hour passes, there is the sounds of firearms, large and small, hand to hand combat and then, dead silence.

Over the ridge, a badly injured Taliban soldier appears, and crawls slowly to the Colonel. As he approaches, he painfully gasps:

Run! It's a trap, theres two of them!

Daniel

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by CAT600

There was a little joke going around Swanbourne a while ago, went like this:

The Colonel of a large Taliban battalion is leading his soldiers through the foothills in Afghanistan, when he hears a voice beyond a ridge:

" One Australian SAS soildier is worth 10 Taliban " The voice declares

The Colonel issues a rapid order to 10 of his best men to dispatch the infidel.

A few minutes pass, there is the sounds of hand to hand combat beyond the ridge before all goes quiet.

" One Australian SAS soildier is worth 100 Taliban " The voice declares

The Colonel issues another order, this time to 100 of his men to dispatch the infidel.

10 minutes pass, there is the sound of firearms beyond the ridge then silence.

" One Australian SAS soildier is worth 1000 Taliban " The voice declares

In sheer anger and desperation, the Colonel orders his remaining 1000 troops, to bring him the head of the foreign scum.

1 hour passes, there is the sounds of firearms, large and small, hand to hand combat and then, dead silence.

Over the ridge, a badly injured Taliban soldier appears, and crawls slowly to the Colonel. As he approaches, he painfully gasps:

Run! It's a trap, theres two of them!

Daniel

That was tops!

[Teflon Turbo]

The only mob to come close to Australian SAS-R are Ghurkas (spelling).

The French Foreign Legion had an obsticle course they used for training and invited Military from around the World to attempt it. The record was set in 45 minutes by the French Foreign Legion Troops.

US Marines did it in 8 hours....hehehe just highligting how useless they are without Hollywood.

Not sure if the SAS-R had a crack at it though.

Cheers,

Chris

[PHATXR8]

The SAS is a very well trained outfit. An old scholl mate of mine has just got out of the SAS after 12 years in it. He has some pretty wild stories from seeing action in many parts of the world. Before the Iraq & Afghanistan wars, he would often be overseas on secret missions that were never made public, often engaged in some wild action doing stuff that was top secret (he refuses to elaborate on much of it).

Anyway, he is only a little fellow, but I have seen him clean up many a loud mouth in the pub when they were giving other patrons grief. He is highly trained in arm to arm combat....needles to say he is a man not to be messed with.

I have been fortunate enough to meet many of his fellow SAS collegues over the past 12 years years when they were on leave, often coming to my farmily property to shoot pigs and roos. And they do know how to shoot, but most of them can't drink to save themselves!

Funnily enough, he is OK in the head, but had a back injury that kept flaring up after it was hurt jumping from choppers in the night!