R.i.p gm 1908-2011 rest in pieces

[jpd80]

That's why I smiled when the Wikileaks communique mentioned FoA passing up funding for potentially lucrative exports....

You've got to be kidding..............

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by HSVKILLA

http://detroitnews.com/article/20111...-09-bankruptcy

And Ford keeps on truckin.

I'm not sure where this idea came from that Ford were never in trouble. The Ford family put everything left on the line to keep Ford going as it was going under in the early to mid 2000 period. Two things saved Ford from the same fate as GM and Chrysler with a bailout or worse.


1. William Clay Jnr realised he was not the man to run Ford as it was going down and had the good sense to stand aside and get a new CEO.

2. They were blessed to get someone as competent as Mullay onboard with the company. Very few CEO's in the US could turn Ford around at that point, Ford lucked out and got one who could.

If either of those things hadn't come together, you would have been reading about Ford going into bankruptcy. It was a very, very close call thing.

Basically Ford did go to the wall, but they went earlier then the other two and only the inheritance and investments of the Ford extended family kept the company solvent long enough to turn it around as it burned though the cash. If any of the Ford family had not decided to put their inheritance on the line, it was game over for Ford. It got that close. Many questioned that it could be recovered at the time, but I think for as much as family pride as good business sense, they put everything on the line to keep the company going.

It was certainly no dream run for Ford. More by the grace of God goes us sort of situation. Mullay had to change a lot of cultural problems within Ford and the fact he wasn't a "car guy" brought up in that twisted executive culture that runs American cars companies certainly was a blessing. Look up some stories on Mullay and how he really shook up the Ford engineers and managers to see how different he was from what they use to do.

Their situation now is much better than the other two, but again, thats Mullay's doing. Get a bad CEO after him and all that good work could be undone in less than a decade. I think if the Ford family could clone the guy and keep in the top job for the next 100 years they happily would, but Mullay is 66, so realistically he will probably retire sometime before this decade is done.

In the car industry I wouldn't imagine there is much time for gloating. You are always only a decade away from insolvency if the wrong strategic decisions are made, no matter who you are.

Look at a local level how much of a mess was made to Ford Australia by poor choices in leadership and the decisions that lead from that. Falcon goes from number one to not making the top ten.

Dan

[jpd80]

Dan, Actually a lot of the credit should go to to Mark fields, Don Leclair and business heads at Ford.

Mark Fields crafted the original plan called, "The Way Forward" Which was launched before Alan mulally came on board.
The plan was then expanded to completely revamp North American operations along the lines of what was done in
Europe and South America, this also involved a daring move by Don Leaclair, the Chief Financial Officer to Mortgage everything.

About this time, Bill Ford Hired Alan Mulally who at a Meeting asked what he could do to make the plan work, Don asked if he would
meet with the banks to strengthen their case for lending, Mulally agreed and with his undertakings, the deal was clinched...

Alan Mulally brought proper corporate governance, the folks at Ford all got on board because they wanted a culture change,
they wanted their company to succeed and those that wanted to keep their own little empires were quickly shown the door.

Ford arguably achieved just as much financially and more culturally by doing its restructuring outside bankruptcy than GM did in CH 11.
IMO, GM were saved yes but their board and CEOs are unrepentant, continuing to suggest that only dumb luck separates them and Ford.
Anyone with a brain can see the difference a mile off.....


On the local scene, we are seeing impressive sales of diesel Territory, something Geoff Polites wanted here years ago.
Hopefully, the Falcon gets some love and sales come back a bit there but I have a feeling that Territory will now carry Falcon...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

I'm not sure where this idea came from that Ford were never in trouble.
Dan

Who said they never were?

[Brazen]

this thread reminds me of fat chicks who pay out hot ones.... Just sayin'

[jpd80]

At least somebody pays out because GM sure doesn't.........

The once mighty GM can barely sell 20,000 more vehicles than Ford in the US, what a come down.....

[Nikked]

"the world is yours"

however, greed ruins that creed.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by jpd80

At least somebody pays out because GM sure doesn't.....

[jpd80]

Don't get me wrong, GM NA didn't do Holden any favors, three out of three RWD car platforms mucked up by their interference/ influence/promises....

1) Sigma started in the late 1990s was to be delivered in 2002 (as VY?) but Cadillac wanted too many changes so given over to them

2) Zeta started as evolution/better mouse trap of Sigma, GMNA want changes to suit their market = bigger and heavier,
seems that Cadillac Sigma is too expensive, cabin too small, to suit the intended ranges of vehicles GMNA wanted to order.
Then they welch on project after project over fuel economy fears even though Commodore uses same engines as US FWDs.

3) Alpha has roots with Kappa based Torana TT36 concept, Cadillac took over project making almost as big and heavy as Zeta.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well, I see a company that screwed up big time but got of scot free thanks to the efforts of the
US government and UAW acting as debtor in Possession financing for GM when no one else would.

Now the New GM is all cashed up with $45 billion in the bank, they haven't learned a thing.

i heard that they were paying people with shares of old gm which are now worthless

[Nikked]

How did they go from being billions in debt to having $45 billion in the black?

[FPV GTHO]

Part of the government bailout was a cash injection

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Don't get me wrong, GM NA didn't do Holden any favors, three out of three RWD car platforms mucked up by their interference/ influence/promises....

1) Sigma started in the late 1990s was to be delivered in 2002 (as VY?) but Cadillac wanted too many changes so given over to them

VY was just a warmed over VX. It was on the VT platform, complete with rear wheel camber issues.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Paxton

VY was just a warmed over VX. It was on the VT platform, complete with rear wheel camber issues.

Diddn't the VY have a the fuel tank relocated to pass US design standards?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Paxton

VY was just a warmed over VX.

V-Car was to be replaced by Sigma, the new GRWD but Cadillac spoiled that by insisting on
too many changes so Holden were forced to hand Sigma over and begin again on Zeta.

[BA-XT]

Ok so a lot of this has gone over my head. Can someone let me know:

* will GM still be called GM?
* as they are now in a form of bankruptcy, what does this mean for the ordinary workers that may have been there all their life?
* iconic American brands such as Chev and Caddillac. Will they still be built?
* just how many companies do GM own? Seems Ford dropped a lot off in the last decade and is now safe and Turning a profit.

Thanks guys!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Mr_BA2003

Ok so a lot of this has gone over my head. Can someone let me know:

* will GM still be called GM?
* as they are now in a form of bankruptcy, what does this mean for the ordinary workers that may have been there all their life?
* iconic American brands such as Chev and Caddillac. Will they still be built?
* just how many companies do GM own? Seems Ford dropped a lot off in the last decade and is now safe and Turning a profit.

Thanks guys!

Righr, under American law companies that enter Chapter 11 regulation are permitted under court control to:
- form an old and new company
- move as many salvageable assets as possible to the new company
- move as many debts and liabilities as possible into the old companies
- leave all creditors behind in debtors court.


The new GM was then floated with $45 billion thanks to the government who
set up an Escrow cash fund for GM to operate properly and pay off any debts
that couldn't be left behind with old GM. The UAW was owed money for its
pension plan so also took a stake in new GM.

At the moment new GM has $45 billion cash in the bank and only about $7 billion debt.
And yes, they are still called GM and Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Cadillac, Holden are all there.