All things Solar (merged threads)

[ute83]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

so do you leave it on all the time or just boost as necessary!

last I looked into it the price, from memory, was around the $3,500 gas boosted

the reason i'm asking is if we swap our power supply across to origin we will be able to pay for our gas bill and buy a solar hot water system from the infeed credits of the solar array

at the moment we will just have a useless credit (I think) unless i pay tax on it which I don't want to do.....may as well use the excess power generated to pay for something

It is not taxable here in Vic.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by ute83

It is not taxable here in Vic.

mongrels class it as income here (south aus.) unless you are a full time old age pensioner!

[poppa smurf]

Hmm! yeah sorta backed up a bit of my thinking!

[z80]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

Hmm! yeah sorta backed up a bit of my thinking!

Yep...if the Govt puts a rebate on anything up goes the price.

Since when does it cost 5k to make a black bit of metal with pipes and a water cylinder when I can get a std hot water system for under $1k?

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by z80

Yep...if the Govt puts a rebate on anything up goes the price.

Since when does it cost 5k to make a black bit of metal with pipes and a water cylinder when I can get a std hot water system for under $1k?

I work in Solar hot water and I can say that the cost of manufacture is correct. We would actually be making more money selling a 5 star gas hot water for $1500 than an adequate solar for $5k.

The extra cost is the copper and the installation. Copper pipe currently costs anywhere from $40 to $50 per meter for 1/4 inch pipe, and if you look at the solar panels they're absolutely choked with copper; manufacturing cost is about $600 cost to the manufacturer.

As for the tank, when solar is an uncontrollable heat source, water can and will boil inside that tank, the tank lining in solar is at least three times the thickness of a standard water heater to cope with the fluctuating water temperature, so the cost of manufacture of a vitreous enamel tank (let alone Stainless) is anywhere from $1500 to $3000.

Then there is the installation cost. If you have a standard hot water tank on the ground and it breaks, to replace it with a new one all you have to do is disconnect the old one and reconnect the new one. Whereas with solar, you have to disconnect the old one, run copper pipe to and from the roof then there is the extra cost of a gas booster, which is essentially a second hot water system.

So the extra cost isn't a salesman pocketing thousands of dollars, it's the engineering that goes into building a system built to cope with both summer and winter conditions. Unfortunately not enough people understand that and so I'm having to abandon all hope and leave the industry, it's a pity really.

[z80]

Originally Posted by Stagg1991

I work in Solar hot water and I can say that the cost of manufacture is correct. We would actually be making more money selling a 5 star gas hot water for $1500 than an adequate solar for $5k.

The extra cost is the copper and the installation. .

$1500 ??

I can buy a 5 star Rheem hot water 380L system for $1500 from Reece plumbing...and I did.

Local plumber quoted $1500 plus installation for identical unit.

As long as I cleaned up the mess, disposed of the old unit and made cups of tea......Phhtttt!

2 hours later, including to pickup the unit from Reece, a shifter and philips screwdriver a roll of thread seal tape and did the job myself.

Some guys reckon they are worth a thousand bucks a day for fitting two pipes and reconnecting three wires.


No sympathy from me if the industry goes bad....

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by z80

$1500 ??

I can buy a 5 star Rheem hot water 380L system for $1500 from Reece plumbing...and I did.

Local plumber quoted $1500 plus installation for identical unit.

As long as I cleaned up the mess, disposed of the old unit and made cups of tea......Phhtttt!

2 hours later, including to pickup the unit from Reece, a shifter and philips screwdriver a roll of thread seal tape and did the job myself.

Some guys reckon they are worth a thousand bucks a day for fitting two pipes and reconnecting three wires.


No sympathy from me if the industry goes bad....

And that's why I'm about to get laid off....

Because Solar is a new industry, people are skeptical. It's the same with any industry though, that you get what you pay for.

Here is a picture of an installation that our plumbers did:



Notice the lagged pipes, colorbond capping and in roof pipework? that's all extra labour to make the system look good and work properly.

Now a gentleman said that he can get the same system for $1500 cheaper, and lo and behold he showed me the quote and it was $1500 cheaper.

2 weeks later, I get a call from the supplier to ask if we could have a look at a warranty job, and it was the same gentleman with the cheaper quote, and this was his job:



No lagged pipes, planks of wood used as a frame, two manifolds connected with a piece of hose pipe, and loose pipes running across the roof.

Essentially, you get what you pay for. Because people look for the cheapest solution, I cannot stay in the industry; as I said, it's really quite sad that people think that way.

[xbcool]

installed a 4kw system 9month ago making 24kw on a nice day and haven't had a bill since and a couple of hundred bucks in credit. bills were around 1000 bucks .

we were using a massive 38kw a day but made a lot of changes to get it down to just under 10 kw/day and havn't looked back.


steve

[Redrum]

I am considering putting a solar power system on my new house. I am just wondering do any know the life expectations of the panels and ongoing maintenance costs, if any , to the system?

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Redrum

I am considering putting a solar power system on my new house. I am just wondering do any know the life expectations of the panels and ongoing maintenance costs, if any , to the system?

life expectancy of the panels vary from manufacturer to manufacturer but the usual life expectancy is a multi stage event as the panel ages the output diminishes

the warranty usually runs in two stages .....10 years @ 90% and 25 years @ 80% is roughly "normal"

if the sales person states a simple 25 year warranty then question the percentage drop.....if they cant answer in a knowledgable way then seek another installer

as far as I'm aware there are no ongoing maintenance costs unless you have them cleaned professionally

[xtremerus]

Query.
There is no way that the solar credit of up to 3 times the retail price of the electricity, is sustainable.
What will happen when the rebates all expire?
Will Power Co.s only pay the wholesale price of the solar power generated in the future?

[ute83]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Query.
There is no way that the solar credit of up to 3 times the retail price of the electricity, is sustainable.
What will happen when the rebates all expire?
Will Power Co.s only pay the wholesale price of the solar power generated in the future?

It expires in the year 2024.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by ute83

It expires in the year 2024.

Depending on what state and when you signed up.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Query.
There is no way that the solar credit of up to 3 times the retail price of the electricity, is sustainable.
What will happen when the rebates all expire?
Will Power Co.s only pay the wholesale price of the solar power generated in the future?

I don't know of anybody that is getting three times the cost of power (I wish) 90c per kilowatt would be VERY pleasing

but the feed in tariff of these prices are history as of the end of september 2011.....not sure what you would receive now, I've heard 18c per kilowatt, also heard a rumour of no money whatsoever which is a bit rich I feel

personally I think if the power is sold to consumers by suppliers at up to 30c per kilowatt then that is what should be paid to the array owner

[mickyyyy]

Is it still worth it to get it installed now?

Also who is good in Sydney to supply and install?

[xisled]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Is it still worth it to get it installed now?

Also who is good in Sydney to supply and install?

If you go onto the GENR tariff in NSW the buy back is $0.00

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Is it still worth it to get it installed now?

Also who is good in Sydney to supply and install?

all depends on what you are looking for and your power usage

assuming you use an average of 10 kilowatts per day and you buy an array that will cover MOST of that MOST of the time,

6 hours per day for average is what most experts agree on as the usable solar output

just say a 3 kilowatt system is around the $10,000 mark possibly less if you shop around.....this will generate ROUGHLY 18 kilowatts average per day, more than enough for your needs

I just went to the energy matters website that I bought mine through to get that price

then does it really matter if you do not get any feed in tariff if you don't have any more power bills EVER!!!!!!

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Is it still worth it to get it installed now?

Also who is good in Sydney to supply and install?

I have installed twice in the Sydney basin, without the 66c feed it Tarrif (I moved homes)

I could not make the numbers work on 66c, as the installer took a huge amount of coin.

but with a Net FIT (your electricity is used by you - measured instantaneously)

I have been ably to pay off the install cost in 4 years

I work from home, and can switch on the A/C, Drier when the sun is out.
Origin give me a net FIT of 6c.

[z80]

A few blokes in WA had the right idea...


No panels at all...charge batteries at 9c in the night time and dump the power back on the grid from the batteries at 66c during the daytime peak.

Not a solar panel anywhere....the govt quickly fixed that little trick...by cutting rebates...

[mytoolsupplies]

I have not gone solar, looked into it ,I wanted a stand alone system and use the grid as a backup Most companies,I contacted told me it was not possable to do this .Not true ,and now that the feed back in tarriff is 7c kilowatt hr you would never save anything unless I build my own panel at around $220 per 1.5kilowatt panel.
The total cost quted to me for a five kilowatt system was over $40,000

[z80]

Originally Posted by mytoolsupplies

I have not gone solar, looked into it ,I wanted a stand alone system and use the grid as a backup Most companies,I contacted told me it was not possable to do this .Not true ,and now that the feed back in tarriff is 7c kilowatt hr you would never save anything unless I build my own panel at around $220 per 1.5kilowatt panel.
The total cost quted to me for a five kilowatt system was over $40,000

Can't see your problem...i had a standalone system for years before getting sick of forking out for batteries every few years.

Here's your solution.....

Find an electrician to put a two way switch on just the lighting circuits of your house.

Position A is lights powered from the grid
Position B is lights powered from your standalone inverter
Position C all off from both sources.

Not hard at all mate.

have alook at a company that can supply everything, and made in australia ....... SELECTRONICS in Victoria.

$40k for 5kw? nahhhhhh.....


If you want a deluxe solution to standalone and grid then have a look at the Selectronics Pro solution.

It will probably do exactly what you want.

Originally Posted by dave351cid

i am sure that the technolegy is out there to make battery back up sysems work with feed in but at the moment it probably is just not viable.

Selectronics have solved the problems with battery based grid feed systems...by charging batteries and then running them down as far as possible in the afternoons they manage to extend the nett generation time of the panels and mitigate the peak grid draw on this type of system even after the sun goes down...so you aren't drawing power at peak rates until the batteries reach a predetermined minimum charge every night.

now isn't that a good idea?



.

[Dragoneletra]

Originally Posted by z80

Here's your solution.....

Find an electrician to put a two way switch on just the lighting circuits of your house.

Position A is lights powered from the grid
Position B is lights powered from your standalone inverter
Position C all off from both sources.

Not hard at all mate.


.

I wouldn't do that. I'm pretty sure that isn't going to be legal. though happy to be proven wrong.

I would like to install stand alone at our place with a bypass switch for mains power where required. depending on the size of the system though.

[poppa smurf]

ah! stand alone systems are a whole new ball game involving Battery banks (deep cycle and very expensive) and MUCH more electronic equipment

but very easily "do-able" I have done exactly this but on a much smaller system in my Hi-ace camper.....I'm totally self sufficient power wise for how ever long I wish to "sit"

[mytoolsupplies]

I must question the cost of copper pipe $40 to $50 a meter,where are you?
I have solar and there is not that much pipe ,And when mine was installed ,the panels faced west ,no good .I made a frame and reset them level east west and a 20% slope facing north and now have no problems .I tried to get the company that installed them to rectify the mounting but they refused telling me the system was working fine,Yes if you used cold water

[mytoolsupplies]

Re my comment on stand alone systems ,I know it is do-able I am from the country But try ringing solar companies and you will see what I mean ;
Tell them they are installed on caravans and mobile homes etc and they say thats different ,I told them OK i will jack up the house and put wheels underneath and vice versa with the caravan and I still got the same answer,Banging my head against a brick wall with most of them

[dave351cid]

one of the main reasons you cant get a stand alone system connected to the house is that if its conneted to the same circuits as the mains power then it can become a major safety issue.

if the standard mains feed in solar systems are set up to meet australian standards, when there is a problem on the mains supply side and there is a power outage the solar inverter shuts down to prevent power from the solar systems feeding back into the damaged lines.
eg - the HV conductors could be down in the street , the normal protection systems will quickly shut off power being supplied . if the solar systems are able to continue feeding into the mains (ie - from a battery bank) then the 230volts that leave your house roof can be converted to 11000 or 22000 volts through the street transformer and fed back to the broken cables with no isolation point creating a highly dangerous situation.

i am sure that the technolegy is out there to make battery back up sysems work with feed in but at the moment it probably is just not viable.

[dave351cid]

i have a 2.1 kw power system on my shed roof with the option to expand to 3.4 km when i save up for some more panels. it cost me $4300 fitted.

i havent had a full account period yet since it was hooked up with the new meter but i am guessing i should come out wit about a neutral account. i`ll be happy with that.


when i had the house built 18 months ago i opted for a solar hot water system. i went with a AAE convection tube type and since i moved into house october 2010 i have turned on the electric booster about 3 times when we have had a week or more of rain without seeing any sun. means that my showers are free = tank water from the rain on the roof and electricity free heating.

[poppa smurf]

as for the question about the worthiness of investing in solar just let me say this

if, like I was, you are currently paying $150 per month for power bills (average 10 kilowatts per day x 30 days + supply charges

if, for instance you placed that money into an "interest free" payment scheme, remembering you have killed your power bill.

after 30 months you have paid for the solar array and you no longer have power bills

as for say $13,000 is too much to pay.....you are going to give the same amount or probably more to the power companies anyway so why not place that money into solar and reap the benefit yourself?

stand alone power is very achievable but expensive because of the batteries and other electronic paraphernalia that goes along with it to keep the sparks running along the wires....Z80 seems to have a solution that makes sense

I remember "free light" and it's big heavy truck batteries.....and of course the kero fridge and ice box then kero lights.....I guess we could go back to that if we really wish

HMMmm! wonder where i would get a kero, 60" plasma tv from???

can't comment on the cost of solar hot water, my son has it but his daily bathing rituals are different than mine, office worker so showers in the AM

cost of construction is unknown to me

[Matty4]

Without starting a new thread I thought I'd ask a couple of questions here.
Currently looking at a ~5kw system and one company (Energy Matters) as supplied a quote using REC235PE panels and a Sunny Boy SB5000TL inverter for around $13.5K.

Firstly, are these panels and inverters of sound quality?
Secondly, is this a fair price?

I have absolutely no idea when it comes to the technical side of solar, I just know that I need to try and reduce my bills. We currently average bills with between 35 - 40kWh average usage per day.

Cheers,
Matty

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Matty4

Without starting a new thread I thought I'd ask a couple of questions here.
Currently looking at a ~5kw system and one company (Energy Matters) as supplied a quote using REC235PE panels and a Sunny Boy SB5000TL inverter for around $13.5K.

Firstly, are these panels and inverters of sound quality?
Secondly, is this a fair price?

I have absolutely no idea when it comes to the technical side of solar, I just know that I need to try and reduce my bills. We currently average bills with between 35 - 40kWh average usage per day.

Cheers,
Matty

Try Solar Dynamics, They have advertised down here 5 kw for $ 10200